Castlevania Miscellanies

[Squire Grooktook]

SOTN has a fun toybox, its just that its squandered.

Kirby Super Star actually has a fun pallet of violent attacks and tricks too. A shame it might actually be harder than sotn.

COTM isn't the greatest thing but its really the only Metroidvania era game of the series where you can die outside of boss fights. Besides the controls feeling a bit more like Classicvania (desipte some imperfections), this is probably why a lot of people have some fondness for it.

[Obscura]

Kirby Super Star actually has a fun pallet of violent attacks and tricks too. A shame it might actually be harder than sotn.

No "might" about it, IMO.

[Volteccer_Jack]

COTM isn't the greatest thing but its really the only Metroidvania era game of the series where you can die outside of boss fights.

Even if that were true (it's not) I would still be bored to tears by seeing 3+ identical enemies with midboss-sized health bars and only one attack populating hallways constantly. 99% of the game's enemies, bosses included, don't have any compelling reason for their giant health bars. I mean you can get the same result by just playing SotN with shitty equipment, and as a bonus you get more interesting enemies and better audiovisuals.

[FinalBaton]

Let's agree to disagree regarding the regular enemies in COTM

[Squire Grooktook]

COTM isn't the greatest thing but its really the only Metroidvania era game of the series where you can die outside of boss fights.

Even if that were true (it's not)

Okay how about this amendment.

You have the best chance of dying outside of a boss fight out of all the metroidvania's.

[Shoryukev]

I haven't had much time to game this past week (wife and I bought a house, and that means moving.....ugh...), but I got a chance to sit down with Castlevania III for a few hours this weekend on my PVM. I haven't played this game that much (didn't have it as a kid, only 1 & 2), but I am enjoying it a lot!

It is pretty impressive to me as an NES game. There is a lot going on that I never knew the system was even capable of, Konami must have really known the hardware inside and out! Maybe it's just my inherent lack of familiarity with the game, but it seems a bit harder than CV1. The first 3-4 bosses are fairly easy (some of them seem like you can just wail on them with the whip till they fall), but after that the stages themselves get pretty challenging.

I see myself playing CV3 a lot more in the future, it's a great game. I especially enjoy the branching paths. It makes me want to research the audio mod for my RGB modded toaster to get those additional famicom additional channels going. The standard NES soundtrack is rather good (aside from the haunted ship level 4....I didn't really like that one), but I'd imagine the famicom version is even better.

[Obscura]

TBH, the branching paths are the one part of Castlevania 3 that kinda sucks. The lower paths only have two stages that aren't totally god-awful, but one of those two, the sinking Atlantis level, is so amazing that I'm compelled to suffer every so often.

I'd kill for a romhack that put that stage on the top where I can actually enjoy it.

[Shoryukev]

TBH, the branching paths are the one part of Castlevania 3 that kinda sucks. The lower paths only have two stages that aren't totally god-awful, but one of those two, the sinking Atlantis level, is so amazing that I'm compelled to suffer every so often.

I'd kill for a romhack that put that stage on the top where I can actually enjoy it.

I haven't really checked out the lower paths yet. The clock tower was on the top of one choice and there was no way I was skipping that one. Sucks to hear some of the lower-path levels aren't as good.

[Volteccer_Jack]

I like the lower paths, although I don't like playing Grant or Alucard, so I usually play the upper route anyway. I think CV3 has absolutely incredible level design barring a couple small exceptions, like the second half of the ghost ship stage, or that one long uneventful block climb. Enemies and platforms are placed with a very precise sense of purpose that in most games (including the rest of the series) is reserved for a few setpieces here and there, but in CV3 it's difficult to find any that aren't placed like that.

Bosses are weak for the most part, unfortunately.

[BIL]

I usually recommend doing the upper route first, then the lower. Upper is slightly easier overall, but also almost certainly more likable. Lacks both the lower route's infamously trying Block Mania segments, and its monotonous aesthetic (swamp->cave->catacombs->dungeon can start to feel interminable). Lower route is great for a tougher, gloomier second playthrough, though.

Also, lower's the only way to hear the rather cool "Demon Seed" and the not especially catchy but interestingly morose "Nightmare." CV Music Nerd Cred!

The final three stages are mandatory, and masterful, so you'll get some great stuff whatever path is taken.

[Sir Ilpalazzo]

I have to admit, I didn't really get a ton out of Symphony of the Night, but the discussion here actually has me a little interested in Circle of the Moon. The class system thing sounds appealing.

[BIL]

It's a cool feature for sure - just a shame they made it so trying to unlock all four bonus classes. Guess they were going for replay incentive at all costs. I had a great time clearing 'em all out in sequence, but then I've always liked COTM's sense of a slightly more conservative, developed SOTN Richter mode. In case it's of any use, here's a link to my full unlock file for VisualBoy Advance - should work fine with the US ROM, despite being played on the JP one. Not sure how portable it is between emulators, offhand.

When I replay COTM these days, I tend to go for Magician mode with a self-imposed par time of ~2.5hrs. No saves, if I've enough free time that the risk of sudden brutal death is enticing rather than deflating! Although summons quickly become abusable, particularly Unicorn, overall it has the same glass cannon kamikaze feel as SOTN Richter. Mars+Unicorn holy sword absolutely rocks - deserves its own game. The reach and lash is remarkably fun, but goring stuff to the hilt at pointblank for 2x damage is where it's really at.

Incidentally (and very tangentially), I ignored Richter mode for years, but grew to love it after discovering COTM/Magician. Lately I've enjoyed it as a more action-focused postscript to my leisurely Alucard replays. Progression-wise it's patently a minimally tweaked extra, but the action is uniquely violent and goes especially well with SOTN's tight controls and pyrotechnic flair. Nothing in even Alucard's vast repertoire approximates Richter tearing into the biggest enemies with high-risk, explosively high-yield attacks. 8236 dash and uppercut are totally unstoppable and infinitely chainable once you get the inputs down, and the Axe's item crash is a classic Weaponised Bomb for aggressively getting inside and instagibbing big targets. Just don't enter a new screen via the crash's startup, instant softlock. >_<

Single-session boss massacres run along a knife edge of blazing destruction and abrupt bloody death. I do recommend it to anyone else who was turned off by the map's quickly apparent lack of optimisation. The action is some great iframe-fuelled precision carnage. Hell, even the exploration is kind of amusing, since you can only "level" by collecting HP Max Ups, and Berumondo can use 'em.

[Blinge]

Haha. yep I love Richter mode. I like speedrunning it too.

If only Nathan controlled anything like Richter .

I've gotta say I agree with VolJack's comments about CotM.. I wouldn't mind those damage sponge enemies that hit like trucks, if i didn't dislike the controls so much! Even just giving them less health would improve the game no end.

I get you're supposed to master the card system etc but even when using it, it's a pain in the ass to be constantly menu switching. I feel like you don't need to do as much menu switching in SotN.

Some of the nasty enemy placement is applauded here. What like the knights poised at the end of long climbs to knock you back down? The demon variant in a tight corridor that fills it with nigh unavoidable shit? Even in classicvanias deviously placed enemies can be dispatched quickly. I dunno man it seems like CotM is trying to be both.

What really boiled my piss was any enemy that inflicts curse. The curse lasts SO long and you can't attack at all, not even throw a subweapon out? C'mon. I ended up just mashing the charge move through enemies to get away while losing precious health the whole time. Don't get me started on those nights that fire dark projectiles at you either.

[BIL]

VampireKiller mode is all about the Cross, honestly. Nothing else matters, not even DSS (which should be ignored outside of Magician and Thief modes anyway; fuck the entire nonlinear series' skinner boxes, tbh). I sympathise with the high enemy HPs (on my last VK run I finally decided that clearing Arena immediately after Camilla is just not fun; Euroshumpy), but anything remotely tough I just stick a cross on and watch the digits rack up.

The demon variant in a tight corridor that fills it with nigh unavoidable shit?

Crouch next to 'em, the shit blizzard will miss you entirely. ;3

[Blinge]

Haha. I'll have to find the exact one I meant and test it, cause that description could fit several enemies in the game.

[BIL]

I was thinking those Baron of Hell-esque guys who remain stationary, launching danmaku barrages from their mouths. There's a few different colour variants, but each one is totally unable to hit you while you're crouching at pointblank. (this works out great for Magician, since you can gore the fuck outta they nutsack with your holy sword!)

If only Nathan controlled anything like Richter .

He does, honestly! Pretty much a straight copy minus his command specials, plus a doublejump. Even shares his ability to start a run by quickly about-facing. Noticing just how direct a template SOTN's Richter was for Nathan largely inspired me to take a proper look at his mode.

My favourite thing is the excellent way both characters will keep running as long as you hold the direction, no matter how many platforms you leap onto or drop down from. You can even whip something, hit the opposite direction and take off immediately once the attack completes.

Their surrounding games are totally different, of course, even ignoring the critical absence of those command moves from Nathan's repertoire. COTM-VK is a bone-dry dungeon crawl with dour looks to match. SOTN-R is unhinged, madly destructive QCF+iframe+BOMBA-driven fun fun fun, and it looks+sounds like the fucking sex. :O



^ a warg rider gets his anus blasted rim from rim, Inverted Entryway

[Shoryukev]

All this talk makes me want to play SOTN Richter mode, so much fun!!! I might give it a crack on my Saturn, while it's port is generally considered inferior to the PS1 version......the Saturn controller is amazing so it might be worth it.

I got about halfway through a regular Alucard playthrough on my saturn awhile back and didn't notice many differences (largely just JP vs US censoring stuff), mainly just a mild language barrier for me LOL.

Is COTM really that good? I have played the hell out of the DS games and loved them....but I kinda missed the boat on the GBA ones.

[BIL]

Is COTM really that good?

I would say it's worth a look, but can't call it a must-play. It concentrates hard on being a sort of SOTNR Serious Mode, with the zany command moves nixed and the punishing demi-traditional action dialed way up. As a nonlinear CV it's really just paying lip service, areas are pretty much sequential. If you like its action (I do!), you'll find lots to enjoy. It offers little else though, and aesthetically it's murky at best.

I would guess Aria of Sorrow is the most likable GBA entry. It's basically SOTN-Alucard miniaturised. Handles just as buttery-smoothly, and although aesthetically it can't even begin to approach the sumptuous, majestic production that is *~Magical Vacation Dracula~* I find its map much snappier to replay. It's a more concentrated-feeling game. This could very easily work against it depending on what exactly one likes about SOTN, of course. Ultimately it's "just" a compacted and non-beautiful SOTN.

HOD is an absolute minefield disaster area of idiosyncrasy and punishingly offputting aesthetic direction. I actually enjoy it but good lord it doesn't make it easy. 3: Sadomaso recommend. ;3

The only Metroidvania that's really blown my socks off is Order of Ecclesia, which is basically my SOTN dream sequel. Bigger monsters, bigger guns, a generally harder emphasis on violent yet silky-smooth action. I adored it and wish I had a DS handy to go back and clear out the optional areas, but tbh I might look into some kind of big-screen solution before then. Haven't played the prior two DS entries enough to give much comment but OOE I recommend wholeheartedly.

[Squire Grooktook]

Haven't played the prior two DS entries enough to give much comment but OOE I recommend wholeheartedly.

I quite like Dawn of Sorrow. Its basically Aria but with much more challenging and elaborate boss fights (that games biggest weakness) and a larger and more diverse map. Also features one of the nastiest depictions of Hell I've seen in a game for a tlb arena.

Portrait of Ruins opts for a series of linear, combat focused gauntlets hidden throughout the castle as "stages" in an attempt to emulate the style of the older games, alongside a 2 character gimmick that is mostly just that. It's good too, but has more lows accompanying its highs compared to the other two (level design for the stages often boils down to "hallways full of enemies" syndrome, with some enemies being more entertaining than others).

[BIL]

Oh yes, I've been looking forward to revisiting DOS largely on your commentaries! I gave it only the barest of initial clears, and on a subpar emulator setup to boot... on a basic level I liked it for sure though (especially loved the guillotining overhead chop of the zweihanders, real sense of weight bringing that down on enemies' heads).

[Shoryukev]

I would say it's worth a look, but can't call it a must-play. It concentrates hard on being a sort of SOTNR Serious Mode, with the zany command moves nixed and the punishing demi-traditional action dialed way up. As a nonlinear CV it's really just paying lip service, areas are pretty much sequential. If you like its action (I do!), you'll find lots to enjoy. It offers little else though, and aesthetically it's murky at best.

That sounds good to me! I think I have a copy of it, just don't currently own a working GBA

I would guess Aria of Sorrow is the most likable GBA entry. It's basically SOTN-Alucard miniaturised. Handles just as buttery-smoothly, and although aesthetically it can't even begin to approach the sumptuous, majestic production that is *~Magical Vacation Dracula~* I find its map much snappier to replay. It's a more concentrated-feeling game. This could very easily work against it depending on what exactly one likes about SOTN, of course. Ultimately it's "just" a compacted and non-beautiful SOTN.

Any sort of SOTN-esque experience in a handheld is a good thing in my book. I've played Portrait/DOS/OOC so much that I'm basically just looking for more to play since I'm somewhat addicted to it.

The only Metroidvania that's really blown my socks off is Order of Ecclesia, which is basically my SOTN dream sequel. Bigger monsters, bigger guns, a generally harder emphasis on violent yet silky-smooth action. I adored it and wish I had a DS handy to go back and clear out the optional areas, but tbh I might look into some kind of big-screen solution before then. Haven't played the prior two DS entries enough to give much comment but OOE I recommend wholeheartedly.

The other two are good games as well, I recommend them to anyone who likes Metroidvania games. The style of gameplay seems to be very well suited to handhelds, I'm almost always either playing one of the DS games or SOTN on my Vita casually when I'm away from home.

Hopefully I can find a GBA soon so I can try the other ones out.....kinda debating original GBA vs SP vs Gamecube player at the moment.

[Durandal]

What really boiled my piss was any enemy that inflicts curse

I'm playing HoD right now and BY GOD does curse make the Devil boss fight more frustrating than it already is.
Unlike other CV games, getting hit in HoD doesn't knock you back (possibly down a long flight of stairs), but merely stuns you for a brief second. However, your invincibility duration on hit is incredibly short compared to other vania games too. Meaning that you'll mostly take damage more than once in quick succession if you come too close to an enemy which results you into being stunlocked until you manage to mash a dash button hard enough. However, in HoD being cursed denies you the ability to dashand slows your movement down to a snail's speed. Simply put, it's bullshit. Hopefully HoD doesn't have more of this bullshit.

Does HoD ever grant you the ability to run faster? I'm hoping the 'mash the dash button in one direction repeatedly' isn't meant to constitute running here, as jumping after dashing doesn't carry any forward momentum.

[Squire Grooktook]

Honestly HOD is so easy that frustration will always come from boredom rather than excessive difficulty.

It's kind of hilarious to consider that, even when playing as Simon Belmont in the boss rush, complete with his CV1-era controls, the boss fights are still way too easy. Fuckers have no chance against Juste when they can barely even handle a Classicvania character.

And no, there's no move speed upgrade.

[FinalBaton]

I personally don't spend much time at all switching DSS abilities in COTM : the combat to me is super fun as is, so I don't bother switching stuff. It's pretty much set it and forget it for me. But it's there if you wanna experiment. I change it once in a while, when I want a long reach for a segment(were-panthers is an example against whom it's super useful), or something. But that's it. You're not required to constantly switch abilities, you can just pick the one you like most and keep it equipped 95% of the time. For me it's the 2 fireballs that rotate around you, provides some defnese + hits enemies close to you with very decent dammage. Love that one, so much fun to have that abillity!

Is COTM really that good?

I find it very, very fun! It's great I think.
Preferences might come into play here, though : some people don't like fighting the regular enemies, but I personally love it. This seems like the point of discordance. Where you stand on the matter, will most likely determine wether or not you love the game.

while it's port is generally considered inferior to the PS1 version......the Saturn controller is amazing so it might be worth it.

I'm seriously thinking about picking up a Sega branded saturn controller for PS2 Hopefully it's better than their PC saturn controllers and just as good as the real deal, and will work on PS1 games...

Hopefully I can find a GBA soon so I can try the other ones out.....kinda debating original GBA vs SP vs Gamecube player at the moment.

If you wanna play at home on your TV : don't discount the Super Retro Advance. It's a nice little piece of kit Despite having only composite out, the colors are still very good(surprisingly good in fact, this is the best composite signal I think I have ever seen from a console. colors legit look right) on an HDTV and you get the correct aspect ratio and a full screen image(with slim black bars on the left and right). On a CRT it still looks good but the colors are less impressive, since it doesn't have a comb filter as good as modern HDTVs. But it's still fun to get 240p with scanlines. And even though you now have a 4:3 picture, it's not that much of a deal to be honest

If only Nathan controlled anything like Richter .

he does, honestly ... running is handled the same way, you get a double jump and a batman walljump... and the EARTH SHATTERING SLIDE OF A THOUSAND DEATHS is great fun to incorporate into fighting sequences.

[Blinge]

If only Nathan controlled anything like Richter .

he does, honestly ... running is handled the same way, you get a double jump and a batman walljump... and the EARTH SHATTERING SLIDE OF A THOUSAND DEATHS is great fun to incorporate into fighting sequences.

I shot myself in the foot by saying "anything like."
I suppose I meant "exactly like." Which isn't the case.

What slide, the one that causes you to take damage if you hit something with any more than your very tippy toes? That does no more damage than the whip so is just more risk for no reward?
The batman jump is slow as fuck.

To me Richter is fun to control, fast and less awkward, I'm having trouble explaining why. Maybe it boils down to lack of horizontal mobility in the air. My irritation with the game is from a combination of complaints, removing any one of them would make it much better imo.

The demon variant in a tight corridor that fills it with nigh unavoidable shit?

I just went back and found what I meant. It's called "Devil" and is nowhere near as bad as I made out.
It's not hard to dodge either.

I know why I had that opinion though: because I was desperate to make progress and got hit a couple of times for big damage, so in subsequent attempts on that area I just rushed past it/ate a hit without wanting to fight because i knew it would take ages to beat this thing, for no substantial gain!

[FinalBaton]

What slide, the one that causes you to take damage if you hit something with any more than your very tippy toes? That does no more damage than the whip so is just more risk for no reward?

Huh?
It hits everything you slide through cleanly...
Of course it hits less than the whip. But it still does good damage and it DOES have a reward : it allows you to deliver hits WHILE going forward. This is an important asset, it can help you dodge attacks from the back/projectiles without stoping delivering damage to enemies. Plow through some skeletons and tell me that doesn't feel good, lol. For bigger enemies, use it as your last blow.
When facing projectile-throwing enemies, it can also (all at the same time) : get under their projectiles, get you close to them(within whip striking distance) and deliver a hit. All in one swift move.
A fine move to have in your arsenal indeed

[Blinge]

Plow through some skeletons and tell me that doesn't feel good, lol.

Haha, sure but that's all it's good for.

When facing projectile-throwing enemies, it can also (all at the same time) : get under their projectiles, get you close to them(within whip striking distance) and deliver a hit. All in one swift move.

My bad for not doing this much.
Even if you manage to space it so well that you don't take damage upon sliding into an enemy (that isn't killed), it's still got so many recovery frames that there's nothing 'swift' about it. clunk clunk clunk.

Actually whip distance? Surely in order to hit with the slide it means you end up face first in their crotch? Perfect place to start eating..

Spoiler

..damage

I'm not convinced of its utility, but i'll give it a try if i go back to the game (to beat the damn arena maybe)

[BIL]

I just went back and found what I meant. It's called "Devil" and is nowhere near as bad as I made out.
It's not hard to dodge either.

Coincidentally, Devil can be crouch-pointblanked too, if you see his "shit flamethrower" attack coming. If you get it wrong, though, you're gonna die! ;3 I really like his deftly telegraphed mixup game, especially in the Arena.

Shit Flamethrower: CHANSU DA ZE! (｀ω´メ) crouch close and thrust n' thrash! Otherwise, its massive reach will force you to run like a little wiener! :O
Shit Tornado: uh oh son, you better back up!
Shit Riot Shield: same same same
Shit Firewall: you better jump it like a badass, its massive horizontal range will catch scared weenies!
Shit Teleport: lmao sometimes, he'll do this and kill players doing a runner!

[FinalBaton]

Legit don't get how you can't see the slide's usefulness, Blinge *shrugs*

Oh well, moving on

[BIL]

I'm playing HoD right now and BY GOD does curse make the Devil boss fight more frustrating than it already is.

The trick to fighting HOD Devils is to never use jumping whip attacks. Seriously. The game's awful attempt at hybridising trad/modern action will hijack all movement and height control during them, leaving you a sitting duck for a direct body ram. On one hand it's awful... on the other, since I use Ice/Axe and can strike without leaving the ground, I kinda like the fight's rhythm.

Good stuff pocked with bad, the story of HOD~