Pvm doesn't look like my childhood

[tjstogy]

So I've been using a pvm-20l5 with rgb everything for about a year now... Snes, n64, Genesis. I love it. But I went to visit my parents and had my NES in my car and hooked it up via composite to one of their old shitty Sanyo CRTs. I was expecting it to look terrible, but to my surprise it looked fantastic. It was much brighter and had all kinds of color bleeding between the lines. The colors were very intense and overly saturated. But it looked great- it looked just like what I remembered growing up with. Playing on my PVM has much more pronounced scan lines and a much duller brightness. The colors are a bit muted in comparison and although it is much sharper, it just doesn't look anything like I remember growing up with. Im not planning on getting rid of my pvm of course, but it just got me thinking about "perfect picture" Vs nostalgia. Anyone else have a similar experience?

[BazookaBen]

Playing on PVM looks like what I remember the games looking like, even though they looked way worse when I was a kid. That's because memories aren't written in stone, they're always being rewritten and connected and disconnected to different emotions (see: Inside Out from Pixar). So even though Super Mario World looks way better over RGB on my PVM, it looks like I remember it, because I remember it looking awesome (even though I was playing on an RF adapter).

[Ikaruga11]

Some people actually prefer the flaws, because that is what we remember.

[mvsfan]

I agree with ben. I dont remember old consoles looking fuzzy or having dot crawl. Back then i thought they looked awesome.

not anymore.

The nes is a good example. stock it has terrible dot crawl. i think it looks awful.

[austin532]

It's strange how the flaws never bothered us before but playing them now a days I'm like "How the heck did I use to play games like this?" Especially in Composite with all that dot crawl.

[tjstogy]

It's strange how the flaws never bothered us before but playing them now a days I'm like "How the heck did I use to play games like this?" Especially in Composite with all that dot crawl.

For sure- I still noticed the dot crawl but I guess my biggest surprise was how good the tv itself actually looked. Like if I were hooked up to it with RGB and no dot crawl- it would look terrific. I almost wish I could make my PVM look a little more like a consumer tv as ridiculous as it sounds. (Maybe my PVM just needs to be recapped....?)

[pegboy]

That's because the NES was never meant to be played in RGB or on a PVM, the games were designed to be played via composite. If you want RGB just play on a fucking emulator and stop wasting your money.

[tjstogy]

That's because the NES was never meant to be played in RGB or on a PVM, the games were designed to be played via composite. If you want RGB just play on a fucking emulator and stop wasting your money.

No thanks...

[Skips]

That's because the NES was never meant to be played in RGB or on a PVM, the games were designed to be played via composite. If you want RGB just play on a fucking emulator and stop wasting your money.

Sounds like someone cant afford an RGB kit and Modding services.

[pegboy]

That's because the NES was never meant to be played in RGB or on a PVM, the games were designed to be played via composite. If you want RGB just play on a fucking emulator and stop wasting your money.

Sounds like someone cant afford an RGB kit and Modding services.

You couldn't be more wrong. Either way, the NES was meant to be played in composite, not your RGB modded system.

[austin532]

That's because the NES was never meant to be played in RGB or on a PVM, the games were designed to be played via composite. If you want RGB just play on a fucking emulator and stop wasting your money.

Sounds like someone cant afford an RGB kit and Modding services.

You couldn't be more wrong. Either way, the NES was meant to be played in composite, not your RGB modded system.

While I agree that this is true, It's tough to go back to Composte. S-video through the NES RGB board is a very nice balance. Not to sharp and not to soft. Plus it gets rid of the Composite flaws so it looks great on a TV.

[RGB32E]

That's because the NES was never meant to be played in RGB or on a PVM, the games were designed to be played via composite. If you want RGB just play on a fucking emulator and stop wasting your money.

Sounds like someone cant afford an RGB kit and Modding services.

You couldn't be more wrong. Either way, the NES was meant to be played in composite, not your RGB modded system.

Composite/RF were the only realistic options available at the time for home/consumer use. It's always entertaining to see people making assertions about "how it was supposed to be", rather than "working with what was available at the time". Personally, I always desired the nice RGB monitors found in arcade machines (ones that had properly working CRTs, that is), so my only nostalgia about dot crawl and things crappy composite is that I wanted something better, like an arcade monitor! I suppose many didn't make the connection at the time, so they end up getting disappointed 20-30 years later with a high quality CRT!

[BazookaBen]

You couldn't be more wrong. Either way, the NES was meant to be played in composite, not your RGB modded system.

NES is the only system you could kinda get away with saying that. Every system that came afterwards had better connections. SNES had s-video and RGB, Genesis had RGB.

[tjstogy]

How did arcade monitors compare to high end later consumer tvs like Sony wegas?

Composite/RF were the only realistic options available at the time for home/consumer use. It's always entertaining to see people making assertions about "how it was supposed to be", rather than "working with what was available at the time". Personally, I always desired the nice RGB monitors found in arcade machines (ones that had properly working CRTs, that is), so my only nostalgia about dot crawl and things crappy composite is that I wanted something better, like an arcade monitor! I suppose many didn't make the connection at the time, so they end up getting disappointed 20-30 years later with a high quality CRT!

[Einzelherz]

That's because the NES was never meant to be played in RGB or on a PVM, the games were designed to be played via composite. If you want RGB just play on a fucking emulator and stop wasting your money.

Sounds like someone cant afford an RGB kit and Modding services.

You couldn't be more wrong. Either way, the NES was meant to be played in composite, not your RGB modded system.

Look, Pegboy, I know you know everything, but NES was meant to play over RF so gtfo with your composite nonsense. Might as well play it on an emulator.

[Spacemonkey]

Composite/RF were the only realistic options available at the time for home/consumer use. It's always entertaining to see people making assertions about "how it was supposed to be", rather than "working with what was available at the time". Personally, I always desired the nice RGB monitors found in arcade machines (ones that had properly working CRTs, that is), so my only nostalgia about dot crawl and things crappy composite is that I wanted something better, like an arcade monitor! I suppose many didn't make the connection at the time, so they end up getting disappointed 20-30 years later with a high quality CRT!

Same here, I always was amazed how good arcade monitors looked (the new ones or the ones that were kept in good shape) I wanted the same for my consoles.

Around the Genesis/SNES era I purchased an Amiga 500 that came with a Scart monitor, the lady had brought it over from Europe. After I noticed the picture looked so good from my Amiga on it I started buying Scart cables, I think the first one I got was for the SNES, I was blown away by the picture quality.

I always played my NES through composite and ever since RGB is available for it I can't go back.

[WelshMegalodon]

Composite/RF were the only realistic options available at the time for home/consumer use.

The Atari 800 and C64 both allowed for Y/C when hooked up to a monitor.

[Einzelherz]

And to the OP - brightness and saturation can be increased on professional monitors. The bleeding though won't really happen unless you unfocus things.

You could look into getting a later model shadow mask set. The lower TVL on consumer sets reduces the thickness of the blank lines so the screen appears less dark.

[Taiyaki]

I know what you mean. I spent a lot of time on these high end pvm/bvm, invested in the cables and setup for rgb, and yes I was amazed at first. But ultimately I felt something was really missing, it felt like I was playing on an LCD with emulated scanlines.

My preference now is high end crt's. I'm really happy with consumer sets. This is pretty much the way I remembered gaming in the later part of the crt era.

[cfx]

.

[evil_ash_xero]

It's like going back and listening to a cassette tape, of one of your favorite CDs.

[kamiboy]

I must once again commend people on being able to remember in exact detail how games that they played over 20 years ago looked.

[Xyga]

You don't have to remember if you still own and use the same games and hardware.

[Einzelherz]

It's like going back and listening to a cassette tape, of one of your favorite CDs.

Having recently rebuilt a Nakamichi cassette deck, I have some thoughts on this.

I think our memories are formed very specifically. What I mean is that a person doesn't *only* remember X song/album/game/movie/tv show. They remember more specifics than that.

My single anecdotal case in point: The tape I was using to test the deck was a old White Willow tape that one of my mother's coworkers made for me in the early 90s. I hadn't heard the album in probably 15 years until earlier this year I downloaded an MP3 version. The MP3 version didn't sound right to my ears, but I didn't realize it at the time. As soon as I got the tape deck working I had a much stronger flood of memories. I suspect that it's the imperfections in that particular recording that stuck out as being "correct". This might also explain the longstanding "Vinyl sounds better" phenomenon that seems to predominantly affect those who grew up with vinyl.

Back on topic - Fudoh very, very, very clearly states that with high TVL CRTs are more like playing on a fixed pixel display, and that this is even more prevalent with an aperture grille screen. Get a shadow mask professional monitor (JVC, Ikegami) and you'll get something closer to consumer sets and even arcade screens.

[Shoryukev]

I'm amazed that as a kid I never noticed geometry issues, and we always just dealt with insane amounts of cropped screen data. I remember playing Streets of Rage 2 a ton as a kid and we never even thought twice about player two not being able to see how many lives he/she had LOL.

These days it drives me insane! Thankfully it is fairly easy to dive into the service menu on most CRTs to "massage" these issues. The only explanation I can think of is that this is one of those things that once you see it.......you can't unsee it.

[Shoryukev]

This might also explain the longstanding "Vinyl sounds better" phenomenon that seems to predominantly affect those who grew up with vinyl.

I have a different argument when it comes to vinyl. While sample rates on digital devices are getting better and better, you can think of analog as a continuous or "infinite" sample rate. The difference most people hear with vinyl is that it is warmer and fatter, which is because the gaps between samples in the digital format make it sound thinner. This is especially prevalent in low quality MP3's

There's also another thing to consider with vinyl (which can also be applied to laserdisc). The way the source material is put on vinyl vs other formats is different.....and sometimes got special treatment. Sometimes one format will have an advantage over the other not because of the format itself.....but because of the added production value given to its release. As an example I have some old Megadeth LPs that are cut to vinyl at half-speed for added fidelity and taken directly from the master tape reels from the studio. Comparing that record to the CD copy I have of the same albums is just flat out unfair.

In the end the quality of vinyl mostly boils down to how well you take care of your equipment and LPs. Dust is your biggest enemy! Sorry to hijack, carry on LOL

[FinalBaton]

It's like going back and listening to a cassette tape, of one of your favorite CDs.

Having recently rebuilt a Nakamichi cassette deck, I have some thoughts on this.

I think our memories are formed very specifically. What I mean is that a person doesn't *only* remember X song/album/game/movie/tv show. They remember more specifics than that.

My single anecdotal case in point: The tape I was using to test the deck was a old White Willow tape that one of my mother's coworkers made for me in the early 90s. I hadn't heard the album in probably 15 years until earlier this year I downloaded an MP3 version. The MP3 version didn't sound right to my ears, but I didn't realize it at the time. As soon as I got the tape deck working I had a much stronger flood of memories. I suspect that it's the imperfections in that particular recording that stuck out as being "correct". This might also explain the longstanding "Vinyl sounds better" phenomenon that seems to predominantly affect those who grew up with vinyl.

Back on topic - Fudoh very, very, very clearly states that with high TVL CRTs are more like playing on a fixed pixel display, and that this is even more prevalent with an aperture grille screen. Get a shadow mask professional monitor (JVC, Ikegami) and you'll get something closer to consumer sets and even arcade screens.

Yes cassettes can sound real fine It's actually a very decent audio format. A Dolby S recording on type IV tape can sound very, very close to a CD regarding the noise floor and the quality and detail of the sound. I don't go that far myself, just listening to pre-recorded albums on type I and II tapes, but I have a very nice cassette deck now and a great integrated amp and speakers, and it sounds very nice. Miles better than what I remember in fact! I was surprised to learn that cassettes can sound this good.

The problem is that back in the day, we(well most of us who were young at the time, anyway) had shitty cassette decks. And most of the time : not-so-good sound systems. So pinning our evaluation of the media to those circumstances is, to say the least, completely unfair

Nice to see you have a good deck! What Nakimichi model is it? I have a luxman here.
sorry to derail the thread a bit here guys >w>

[Xyga]

I suspect that it's the imperfections in that particular recording that stuck out as being "correct". This might also explain the longstanding "Vinyl sounds better" phenomenon that seems to predominantly affect those who grew up with vinyl.

I've never believed in the analogue imperfections nostalgia theory, analogue works fine in areas where digital audio still has issues and vice-versa.
Putting aside the audio science debate, the status today is that on the one side we have dying clunky analogue equipement that might be more fit for those who still care, and on the other underengineered digital crap that's not giving us full satisfaction, leading to a race for questionable expensive niche market gadgets.
Everyone will have a slightly different opinion on the matter, but that's a lot like the story with displays lol.

[FinalBaton]

To the OP :

Yes you're not alone. A lot of people prefer consumer sets because professional monitors are missing the nostalgia aspect.

[RGB32E]

How did arcade monitors compare to high end later consumer tvs like Sony wegas?

Arcade monitors used shadow mask tubes from various manufacturers, so they have a completely different look than any Sony AG CRT.

The Atari 800 and C64 both allowed for Y/C when hooked up to a monitor.

A S-Video to 2 RCA adapter was one of my very first soldering projects that I built to hook up a N64 via S-video to such a monitor!

Around the Genesis/SNES era I purchased an Amiga 500 that came with a Scart monitor, the lady had brought it over from Europe. After I noticed the picture looked so good from my Amiga on it I started buying Scart cables, I think the first one I got was for the SNES, I was blown away by the picture quality.

Nice! I was always amazed by the Zenith RGB monitor Nintendo used as part of their SNES demo kiosks!

I always played my NES through composite and ever since RGB is available for it I can't go back.

Very true!