Castlevania Miscellanies

[Leandro]

that track is great... love the stereo separation and the percussion... I might try to give this game another chance

[Skykid]

Off the top of my head, I remember this awful crap that sounds like a Tarzan cartoon for small children took Casper the Friendly Ghost out on a date at a dance club run by fans of subpar chiptune music. If I were feeling generous about the ambience, I would instead compare it to the Addam's Family having a dance-off in Shrek's swamp.

That's actually one of my favorite tracks in the game.

It's a really nice track.

[Volteccer_Jack]

I'm honestly flabbergasted that more than two people are claiming to like that garbage, so I'm just gonna drop some actual good music and leave.
Tower of Mist
Aquarius
The Bathead
Symphony of Battle

[Squire Grooktook]

They're all good. Including CV4's ost. There's nothing wrong with it whatsoever, and it fits the aesthetic of the game perfectly.

[Skykid]

I'm honestly flabbergasted that more than two people are claiming to like that garbage, so I'm just gonna drop some actual good music and leave.
Tower of Mist
Aquarius
The Bathead
Symphony of Battle

Yeah, all good. Not the series best, but certainly in keeping with the usual high quality.

No idea why you dismiss CVIV as lesser though, assuming your ears work properly. It's a score with an atmospheric signature and distinctly gothic tone. Less action infused and more cobwebby cellars and nights of dread. It's got real high class classical influences in there too, but its tone is fairly unique, using the distinct aspects of the SFC soundset to conjour up something dark and haunting as opposed to chippy and upbeat (although it's a pretty broad OST thanks to the stage sectioning and overall length, so it contains elements of all).

There's no reason to dismiss it the way you are, you're already a minority opinion in this thread alone, and I'd wager that would be reflected across the board. Being "flabbergasted" fewer people concur with you than do appears to be your personal issue. That said music taste is subjective, even when people enjoy stuff that's quantifiably shit; but in the case of CVIV I just don't think you're listening to it right.

[Obscura]

Castlevania IV is far from my favorite game in the series, but I can't believe anyone would deny the greatness of its OST.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7z0bIidrXm0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUEC1Rcb1TA

I mean, really, just listen to those.

EDIT: Wait, you think that Harmony of Dissonance of all things has one of the better CV soundtracks?!?! Are you deaf?!?!

[BIL]

At least he didn't call it "gay techno." (well, I guess he kinda did, haha!)

To the tune of Ridge Racer's "Rare Hero:"

Spoiler

Gaytechno! Gaytechno! Gay-gay-gaytechno!

I'm just gonna pop up to say as poorly as most of HOD's OST fares, Offense and Defense is killer. Such razor-sharp dynamism and intensity deserved more good peers. Successor of Fate aggressively upholds 2D CV's unbroken line of Great St1 BGMs, Chapel of Dissonance is technically impressive in its intricate fury, and that's about it. Even taken as mood music, I don't find the remainder oppressive, encroaching or evocative so much as annoying/forgettable (like I do much of HOD's mood, admittedly). Luminous Cave's drudge and Clock Tower's shrilling almost make me mute the sound. Aqueduct, Heretic's Grave and Castle Center are wallpaper. Merchant BGM is insultingly bad, boss BGMs are as tacky and vapid as the majority of the roster itself.

I remember a lot of reviews going "the bad audio quality is the issue!" but yo, FUCK them. I love the warm buzzy MSX sound, I jack it to Gradius 2's "Above The Horizon" every day.

re IV: I do like the blunt, tribalistic drumming on Forest of Monsters. It is a tad basic and childish, but putting a slightly different spin on that I prefer to think of it as Lord of the Flies-primeval, befitting the rustic setting. As said earlier though, it's that dark bassoon-ish undercurrent I gravitate to. I also enjoy the brief melodic respite of the flute, before the insistent tattoo brutalises the mood again.

Marmite soundtrack tbh. Eccentric, dark and offbeat. I fucken love it.

[Obscura]

Successor of Fate is terrible. Those fast keyboard slides sound awful in the game's weird soundfont, and the manic chirpy bit has no business being in any "Theme of [insert Belmont here]". Offense and Defense is pretty great, though.

Luminous Cave might be the worst song to ever make it into a Konami game. Ugh. Such tuneless crap.

[Skykid]

Luminous Cave might be the worst song to ever make it into a Konami game. Ugh. Such tuneless crap.

I think it is. Jawdrop bad. And, iirc, you have to listen to it loads owing to the size and structure of its section. I remember it grating so bad I actually turned the volume to zero on it. That was a first and last for any videogame I've ever played.

[Squire Grooktook]

Chapel of Dissonance is technically impressive in its intricate fury, and that's about it.

I'd be curious to hear what you think of the arrange version. I personally love the melancholic intro and some of the sweeping phases, though ironically the fury itself is what tends to make me tune out. I feel like the chapel theme in general could have been incredibly memorable with a few more hooks. I still have a massive soft spot for it though, perhaps moreso than offense/defense.

[BIL]

The official arrangement is a bit loud for my liking - amplifies things from intense to outright distracting. Then again I find even stuff like Jorge D. Fuentes' relatively reserved take a bit much. I actually like the reedy, fuzzy sound of the OST version. Still not a song I'd listen to on its own, tbh, but in-game I enjoy its contrast with the chapel's sweeping blue skies and elegant decor.

The chapel in general is one of my happier HOD areas - it's fun zipping up and down the huge staircases, doublejump-dropkicking gargoyles to bits, and bringing murderous slabs of ice down on axe armours to send 'em out in fountaining Raizingsplosions. Even looks pretty good, with detailing approaching SOTN's sumptuous levels.



It's even nicer coming as it does after the drudge of Castle Treasury/Skeleton Cave/Luminous Cavern. Oh HOD. >_< I can hardly find the energy to keep appending "nice, but..." to everything I like about this game.

The BGM's placid callbacks to Rondo's Bloodlines are cool - I like how that melody recurs in so many later games, maybe the most of any non "FC holy trinity" BGM? (Dracula XX's end credits, 64's intro and SOTN's "Strange Bloodlines" all make fine use of it, offhand).

[Volteccer_Jack]

No idea why you dismiss CVIV as lesser though, assuming your ears work properly. It's a score with an atmospheric signature and distinctly gothic tone. Less action infused and more cobwebby cellars and nights of dread. It's got real high class classical influences in there too, but its tone is fairly unique, using the distinct aspects of the SFC soundset to conjour up something dark and haunting as opposed to chippy and upbeat (although it's a pretty broad OST thanks to the stage sectioning and overall length, so it contains elements of all).

For the most part, I would not say CVIV's tone is 'distinctly gothic'. It's definitely got an atmospheric signature, but I'll argue it's a shitty one. The cobwebs and dread thing is scant at best, most of the time I was just trying to figure out what atmosphere they were going for with all the weird shit it does (the brutal murder of Vampire Killer for example), like some sort of sci-fi/jungle hybrid; the main thing that comes to mind when I think of CVIV music is like a bad dance club or something. If I had to venture a guess, it honestly sounds like it might just be more showing off of the hardware like that awful roomspin.

Like, explain to me how CVIV music and Super Metroid music are both atmospheric, because from where I'm standing, one of them is very atmospheric pretty much all the time, and the other is very nearly never atmospheric.

Castlevania IV is far from my favorite game in the series, but I can't believe anyone would deny the greatness of its OST.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7z0bIidrXm0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUEC1Rcb1TA

I mean, really, just listen to those.

EDIT: Wait, you think that Harmony of Dissonance of all things has one of the better CV soundtracks?!?! Are you deaf?!?!

Okay, Waterfall actually sounds pretty good. It obviously didn't stick with me, but it sounds great. The other one reminds me of Harmony Dissonance, lots of crap with a few good moments.

As far as Harmony of Dissonance music being good, that was purely in terms of establishing an atmosphere, which I think it does well, even if the music is occasionally painful. Removed from the context of adding atmosphere to a CV game, the only track that was really good off the top of my head is, as BIL said, Offense and Defense. Being on the GBA didn't help matters, CoM and Aria have pretty underwhelming music too. There's a LOT to like about Harmony of Dissonance, the game just does its best to make you stop playing.

[Blinge]

Like, explain to me how CVIV music and Super Metroid music are both atmospheric, because from where I'm standing, one of them is very atmospheric pretty much all the time, and the other is very nearly never atmospheric.

Seems to me they're going for the atmosphere half the time, the other half is the corny B-movie horror stuff that the series is usually associated with.

When I think back to the tradition of gothic horror literature that spawned the original Dracula - it isn't entirely serious. Very little of it is sheer horror, or actually scary. The genre has always been ridiculous. Although Dracula is better and more grave than most of its peers, it has its moments.

Getting back to the game... It's horror themed action, I don't think anyone wants an "all-atmosphere" soundtrack.

[Durandal]

I originally thought that Successor of Fate couldn't live up to its potential because of the shitty soundfont, but after listening to some arranges I've come to the conclusion that those god-awful high-pitched dissonant notes are what killed a potentially good song for me. And I listen to Drakengard 1 all the time.

[Blinge]

waddup its yo boy blinge just 1cc'd dat cv4.
Yeah it's not the hardest, but fuck it, I'm glad.

Previous attempts had me getting to stage 8 and chain dying on the disappearing blocks or that jump in the treasure room, with the skeleton ready to catch you.. quite demotivating after an hour of play.

Welp, what next. Squire wants me to play Bloodlines but i'm leaning towards Kid Dracula ^_^

[BIL]

that jump in the treasure room, with the skeleton ready to catch you..

One of the dickiest dick moves in the whole traditional series. I always send a cross or two ahead to land vital hits on the would-be skeletal assassin, but holy fuck it's close! And his batty cohort trying to nip your toes doesn't help... nor does the third, unseen member of this veritable cabal of dicks, the SFC's sluggish processor. What a nightmare.

IV hits a really nice pitch in its final four stages. Lots of nasty setups to deftly work around.

Bloodlines should be right up your alley - transposes the methodical ethos of the FC games seamlessly into a bigger, faster and subtly more flexible 68000 Heart On Fire world. Note the useful light/heavy attack dynamic!

[Perikles]

The trick to that jump in the treasure cove is to land on the very edge of the platform, the skeleton will miss if you're positioned there. A centred position will almost inevitably spell doom, nearly falling off is paradoxically fairly safe.

[Durandal]

SCVIV's Stage 4 is god fucking awful. It's not just the spinning room with the intensity of a senior with hernia climbing a staircase, but those green fucking platforms which basically require you to mash the jump button if you don't want to fall to your death. Screw them.
I wish block 9-1 didn't have those slowdown-inducing clouds either.

[BIL]

I dunno, I find a very moderate tapping gets me over the spinneh-mah-winneh green tiles every time.

[FinalBaton]

It is my pleasure to announce that I am completely addicted to Circle of the Moon

[Durandal]

It is my pleasure to announce that I am completely addicted to Circle of the Moon

Yea, I've recently started playing it and have explored over 50% now. It's okay, I guess? A lot of the environments and stage layouts seem more repetitive and simple than they should be. I guess you don't want something TOO intricate and hard to navigate if you have to backtrack, though navigation can get fairly boring. In such a case you'd have to rely more on menacing enemy types, which only seems to happen later in the game. The first part is fairly easy as far as I'm concerned, though most subweapons aside from the Watch seem fairly underutilized, especially since in most cases your subweapons deal less damage than your whip. The bosses and some rooms have a bad case of 'attacking you from beyond the camera'.
Music and the arranges are alright. Also, Nathan's walking cycle is SHIT. SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT

[BIL]

The first part is fairly easy as far as I'm concerned, though most subweapons aside from the Watch seem fairly underutilized, especially since in most cases your subweapons deal less damage than your whip.

Cross is VampireKiller mode's best weapon hands-down. Three of them halting on a target will rack up obscene damage, killing big enemies and bosses far quicker than the whip or other subweapons. It's best to get one ASAP (they're uncommon - the first is at the front entrance, accessible after killing Cerberus and escaping the abyss), then keep it for the game's duration.

[Durandal]

The first part is fairly easy as far as I'm concerned, though most subweapons aside from the Watch seem fairly underutilized, especially since in most cases your subweapons deal less damage than your whip.

Cross is VampireKiller mode's best weapon hands-down. Three of them halting on a target will rack up obscene damage, killing big enemies and bosses far quicker than the whip or other subweapons. It's best to get one ASAP (they're uncommon - the first is at the front entrance, accessible after killing Cerberus and escaping the abyss), then keep it for the game's duration.

I wish I'd known about this before, the cross is absolutely wrecking shit up.

[Blinge]

that jump in the treasure room, with the skeleton ready to catch you..

One of the dickiest dick moves in the whole traditional series. I always send a cross or two ahead to land vital hits on the would-be skeletal assassin, but holy fuck it's close! And his batty cohort trying to nip your toes doesn't help... nor does the third, unseen member of this veritable cabal of dicks, the SFC's sluggish processor. What a nightmare.

Haha. word. I tend to favour Perikles solution more tbh. I've thrown a cross or axe ahead of me before, it doesn't do as much damage as the whip so the skeleton which usually goes down in two hits doesn't, and hits me. I mean i'm whipping the whole time, not really sure what happened. maybe the cross hitting it gave it an invulnerability frame to survive the second whipping? I'll have to scrape through some of the footage I got and see what happened. could be talking out my ASS

[FinalBaton]

Yea, I've recently started playing it and have explored over 50% now. It's okay, I guess? A lot of the environments and stage layouts seem more repetitive and simple than they should be. I guess you don't want something TOO intricate and hard to navigate if you have to backtrack, though navigation can get fairly boring. In such a case you'd have to rely more on menacing enemy types, which only seems to happen later in the game. The first part is fairly easy as far as I'm concerned, though most subweapons aside from the Watch seem fairly underutilized, especially since in most cases your subweapons deal less damage than your whip. The bosses and some rooms have a bad case of 'attacking you from beyond the camera'.
Music and the arranges are alright. Also, Nathan's walking cycle is SHIT. SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT

Wow, we've got different opinions of this game.
There's quite a lot of stuff that I like from it. I'm at 55%, so my opinion might change slightly later in the game, but so far this is what I think :
-Vast majority of regular enemies make for a good fight. Thay have fun patterns to dance around and exploit. I actually think that I like fighting these a bit more than in SOTN
-Bosses are fun fights so far as well. I like the fact that there are very few health items; this forces you to defeat bosses on one lifebar. And the programmers definitely built the fights around this. They're challenging(for the most part) but can be done with a full health bar without resorting to health items, if you're good at studying enemy patterns. Again, I like how this is handled a bit more than in SOTN.
-I like how the Castle opens up. It's hard to explain this one; I just think the rythm of the backtracking is pleasing.
-New enemies appear in older areas, wich is cool
-I quite like hearing those older track remakes. For the most part they sound nice.
-I really dig the artstyle. I wasn't sure at first but it grew on me. Love the use of color in the game, and the backgrounds are drawn well.

Overall it's a very solid game I think, and I enjoy it a lot

A lot of the environments and stage layouts seem more repetitive and simple than they should be.

Do you mind expanding on this? I can't really see this so far, maybe I haven't paid attention to that aspect enough

Also, Nathan's walking cycle is SHIT. SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT

Yeah, it's stiff-city. I agree with that.

Cross is VampireKiller mode's best weapon hands-down. Three of them halting on a target will rack up obscene damage, killing big enemies and bosses far quicker than the whip or other subweapons. It's best to get one ASAP (they're uncommon - the first is at the front entrance, accessible after killing Cerberus and escaping the abyss), then keep it for the game's duration.

Nice to know. I was sticking with the axe so far because it's trajectory is so convenient, but I'll try to hang on to the cross whenever I see one.

[Volteccer_Jack]

Navigation is the best part of CoM IMO. Most of the combat is really tedious simply by virtue of enemies taking too long to kill, but the Batman wall-jump makes all the backtracking fun. I'm sure I've mentioned before how VampireKiller ruins the game by making your character boring and weak in combat.

[Durandal]

Yea, I've recently started playing it and have explored over 50% now. It's okay, I guess? A lot of the environments and stage layouts seem more repetitive and simple than they should be. I guess you don't want something TOO intricate and hard to navigate if you have to backtrack, though navigation can get fairly boring. In such a case you'd have to rely more on menacing enemy types, which only seems to happen later in the game. The first part is fairly easy as far as I'm concerned, though most subweapons aside from the Watch seem fairly underutilized, especially since in most cases your subweapons deal less damage than your whip. The bosses and some rooms have a bad case of 'attacking you from beyond the camera'.
Music and the arranges are alright. Also, Nathan's walking cycle is SHIT. SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT

Wow, we've got different opinions of this game.
There's quite a lot of stuff that I like from it. I'm at 55%, so my opinion might change slightly later in the game, but so far this is what I think

I've only just now completed the game, and I'd say it's pretty good. Not particularly memorable, but fun on its own. I'd replay it right now if I didn't have a behemoth-sized backlog.

-Vast majority of regular enemies make for a good fight. Thay have fun patterns to dance around and exploit. I actually think that I like fighting these a bit more than in SOTN
-Bosses are fun fights so far as well

The initial enemy types are kinda easy, but later enemies do indeed open up and challenge you in many different ways. There are no outright bad boss battles either aside from some bosses being too easy or cheesable with the DSS, I liked the Hugh and goat head fights the most.

-I like how the Castle opens up. It's hard to explain this one; I just think the rythm of the backtracking is pleasing.
-New enemies appear in older areas, wich is cool
-I quite like hearing those older track remakes. For the most part they sound nice.
-I really dig the artstyle. I wasn't sure at first but it grew on me. Love the use of color in the game, and the backgrounds are drawn well.

There are plenty of hidden secrets everywhere so each backtracking trip after you get a new power doesn't feel like a waste. Though, and this is a personal pet peeve with most Metroidvanias for me, I hate traveling to some unexplored square in the map only to find out I couldn't progress there since I didn't have the necessary power yet, or instead I find another HP/MP/Heart bonus instead of a new area.

The music overall is pretty good, though aside from the first tracks and the arranges, I don't really find any of the new stuff to stand out that much. I liked the new Clockwork Mansion arrange the most, too bad it doesn't play in an area you cross more frequently. I don't really like the Ultima 7-ish black outline on all these low-res sprites, because to me it makes everything look like Lego. The backgrounds and overall artstyle are alright.

Do you mind expanding on this? I can't really see this so far, maybe I haven't paid attention to that aspect enough

It seems to be a trend in IGAvanias to have long hallways or staircases with the same enemy placement over and over just to fill out the map. Your view on this might depend on the used enemy types, but these areas feel rather repetitive. Especially when they have a lot of HP too. Thankfully, that's not all CotM is comprised of. There are plenty of rooms with devious enemy placement and obstacles, which could fit right into a Classicvania.

I really love the way the DSS works, in theory. It allows you to defeat obstacles in ways other than jumping and whipping, which allows for a lot of creative usage and different strategies. Some secrets can be obtained by freezing enemies and using them as a platform like SM's Freeze Missiles, before you even get the Roc Jumps. With the right combinations, you can bypass certain boss patterns entirely.

Spoiler

I went through the Underground Passage with the combination which reduces all damage by half, as it has damaging water. I didn't know at the time that an item existed (from an optional boss fight no less) which would purify the water and make things much easier, but I managed to get past all of it without the item regardless, thanks to the DSS. Goes to show the freedom of approach the DSS gives you.

You can only have one combination equipped at a time, so you can't become ridiculously OP. All magic requires mana which doesn't regenerate all that fast, so even the usage of your powers is limited. I do wish that you could switch combinations more easily, pausing and finding those cards in the middle of a fight can be pretty cumbersome. That, and having to stand still before you can (de)activate your DSS is unwieldy.

The problem is obtaining the cards, which is determined solely by chance. If you want to get certain cards, you'll have to grind an enemy with a luck setup or just get lucky. Grinding is by no means required, but on your first playthrough you'll probably be sticking to three-four combinations for the most part even though there's so much more available. I just ended up using the circling two flames for the most part while becoming the human bulldozer. Doesn't really work on stronger enemies, though. Being able to sell redundant drops for money to buy cards with gold instead could have proven more useful.

Spoiler

However, after completing the game, you'll unlock (unlocking isn't really the right word, you'll see what I mean) a new 'class' which grants you ALL cards from the start and gives you a big fat INT boost to boot. And there's even more classes beyond that! Talk about replay value! Though other classes should have had more reliable means of obtaining cards. Additionally you should have been able to choose classes from the start, because the basic VamlireKiller mode is just sucky compared to everything else.

The movement lies in-between the stiff whip attacks of Classicvanias and the expanded movement possibilities of SotN. Platforming is tight, and the combat requires more old-school deliberation with your whip. I do like the mix of old and new, without feeling too easy like CVIV did. Moving around the castle feels good and responds like it should. It's what made playing a human bulldozer so fun. I dig how secrets make use of being able to Roc Jump again every time you Wall Jump, whereas the same doesn't count for the Double Jump which is necessary for horizontal movement. The Wall Jump has a bit too many frames with you stuck to the wall, but that's just something minor.

Overall, yea, it's pretty good. The challenge is still there, though the newer enemies reappearing in old places should have been done earlier. People say Aria is the best GBAvania, so I'm eager to play that after trying HoD.

[FinalBaton]

Most of the combat is really tedious simply by virtue of enemies taking too long to kill

Huh, I don't see that. I actually like that aspect. Enemies are fun to fight in CotM, a fun little challenge each and everytime. whereas in SOTN they're just a formality...

I guess it depends on one's tastes at this point. Different strokes for different folks

Navigation is the best part of CoM IMO.

It's quite nice, eh?

[FinalBaton]

@Durandal

I like how you described some elements as Classicvania--ish. I see it also and that's what I like the most about the game I think. It's a Metroidvania with a bit of Classicvania flair and I love that. Especially in the combat, wich I love.

The DDS mechanic is cool indeed, I like it. It has a good deal of variety and is easy to use. It's fun to experiment with

I also don't care much for the black outlines on the main character.

And I can't wait to play Aria of Sorrow too!

[Volteccer_Jack]

Huh, I don't see that. I actually like that aspect. Enemies are fun to fight in CotM, a fun little challenge each and everytime. whereas in SOTN they're just a formality...

I feel the reverse. In Symphony there's a lot of nuance to combat like using a shield or a second weapon, backdash stuff, trickery like shorthopping to attack faster, etc. Whereas in CoM you need to be a Magician to have anything similar. And while enemy attacks are mostly nice, most enemies just repeat a single attack ad nauseum, so again, the only way I get much fun out of that is when I'm Fighter and only need to see that attack once or twice before moving on.

Of course I have the same opinion about the default mode in both games -- no one should ever play the default mode. Luck Mode and Magician/Fighter/Shooter are just better than the normal games at everything.