Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?

[Zombi 6]

Fire Barrel. Great game

[Stevens]

After some further fucking around I've decided to stick with type 1.

As far as that option stealing asshole I'm grabbing the 4th option way into stage 2. As I progress further in the game I will grab the 4th option later and later. At least in theory that is how it should work.

Stage 3 is starting to come together, the last half isn't molesting me as badly since I'm getting more familiar with it. I reached the boss and even though I didn't kill it I was pretty close. I went into practice after that and wound up beating him with almost no power ups.

I played that sequence enough times that I can say I feel comfortable with it now. Stage 4 should come soon.

[Kollision]

I don't remember the ship type, but I love how you can whip them lasers about in Gradius V.
It was really a touch of genius by Konami/Treasure.

[atheistgod1999]

I was actually wrong about not having any other shmups: I have a mint-condition CIB copy of Global Defense that came with the SMS I bought.

I like how the first thing you see after the SMS startup screen is a plane-looking missile crashing right behind the twin towers

The controls leave something to be desired (I think it would work better with 2 D-Pads). Of course, I shouldn't be expecting great controls in a game made by Sega

[Stevens]

Playing Gradius V after a week away, progress is there but slow. Still haven't made stage 4 on a credit, but I did make its boss on 2.

I foresee myself getting the maximum enjoyment credit feeding it, getting the weapon edit, and then taking it from there.

[WelshMegalodon]

The controls leave something to be desired (I think it would work better with 2 D-Pads).

I thought the system you bought came with two pads. You must have missed the hint I dropped.

How's SDI? I've always wondered how it would control with two pads.

Use both control pads as indicated on page 10 of the instruction booklet to make the game easier.

[atheistgod1999]

The controls leave something to be desired (I think it would work better with 2 D-Pads).

I thought the system you bought came with two pads. You must have missed the hint I dropped.

How's SDI? I've always wondered how it would control with two pads.

Use both control pads as indicated on page 10 of the instruction booklet to make the game easier.

Yeah, I should have done that *facepalm*

I pretty much skimmed through page 10. I figured it would be even more awkward to hold 2 controllers, each in one hand.

I didn't know SDI meant Global Defense.

UPDATE: Tried it with 2 controllers. In that mode, I'm trading off good grip for being able to move and change shooting target at the same time. It might actually be harder because of how awkward it is (especially for my right hand)

[Chaos Phoenixma]

I recently played a lot of Under Defeat and got the platinum trophy for it, which doesn't really require any skill(though I did get it once I had 4 spare credits on both modes and didn't need to wait for free play)

Mainly used dual stick for it, and now trying out Arcade without it and while using the default shottype, it's a lot harder. Like I actually lost a credit in 1-2 kind of hard, though that was due to the whole I shouldn't need to bomb this stuff thing. It's tough to use the option well and target stuff without the dual stick control. I'm using Reverse instead of Normal.


I'll probably try to at least 1-All the game. I think that should be reasonable with some effort. No idea if I'll actually stick with it long enough, but I don't really have interest in 2-All attempts right now, maybe play some Extra Mode too. May mess around with New Order attempts too using some of the other copters and dual stick for that mode.


Also when I messed with Geometry Wars 3 a bit more, I wasn't really enjoying it. I was a bit more at first because I hadn't played it yet and it had been a while since I had last played one of the previous games, but going back, I don't really find the gameplay to be very good. The new game modes are annoying, the stage layouts make certain deaths feel very cheap(though I'm sure you could learn them), and even the classic modes feel off when I went back to Geometry Wars 2 to compare them. I'm probably never playing this again.


Also messed around a bit on Muchi Muchi Pork. I can't connect my 360 to Live at the moment so I wouldn't be able to submit to leaderboards at the moment. Did a run with Momo but game overed in 1-4 because I hadn't played in a while, died a lot with bombs in stock, plus I'm not used to playing with Momo yet. I would need to practice a bit to get used to Momo and find some patterns that help for her.

[BIL]

Yeah, I should have done that *facepalm*

I pretty much skimmed through page 10. I figured it would be even more awkward to hold 2 controllers, each in one hand.

I didn't know SDI meant Global Defense.

UPDATE: Tried it with 2 controllers. In that mode, I'm trading off good grip for being able to move and change shooting target at the same time. It might actually be harder because of how awkward it is (especially for my right hand)

Incidentally, both the arcade and SMS versions of SDI got typically excellent M2 ports for PS2, via Sega Ages: System 16 Collection (which also includes AC+SMS Quartet, a fun platform/shooter). You can use the Dual Shock and IIRC even a PS2 mouse with SDI. Like all of M2's Sega Ages discs it's NTSCJ-only, unfortunately.

[Jonst]

Still sdoj. I don't even know why I'm still trying to play it.

[Stevens]

Still sdoj. I don't even know why I'm still trying to play it.

Move on if you're not enjoying it.

Cave syndrome struck, again. I got to Volvox, saw something shiny, and you know the rest. Happens with every Cave game I've played.

Gradius V still. Made stage 4 twice so far, it is definitely a vagina.

My last play I credit fed until I ran out. Due to the game's length I think this is going to be the best way for me to improve. Wound up reaching the boss rush on 6.

[kidpanda]

I was actually wrong about not having any other shmups: I have a mint-condition CIB copy of Global Defense that came with the SMS I bought.

I like how the first thing you see after the SMS startup screen is a plane-looking missile crashing right behind the twin towers

The controls leave something to be desired (I think it would work better with 2 D-Pads). Of course, I shouldn't be expecting great controls in a game made by Sega

Considering the arcade used a trackball, that would explain the poor controls.
Been playing DOJ and Battle Garegga as of late.

[atheistgod1999]

I got BioMetal a few hours ago, popped it in my SNES, and was fucking BLOWN AWAY. This is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYY better than Gradius! Now I see why you people like shmups so much!

[Bananamatic]

651 posts on shmups forum and person just discovers shmups
sounds about right

[atheistgod1999]

651 posts on shmups forum and person just discovers shmups
sounds about right

Uuuhhh...yeah.....

[Squire Grooktook]

I got BioMetal a few hours ago, popped it in my SNES, and was fucking BLOWN AWAY. This is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYY better than Gradius! Now I see why you people like shmups so much!

Your biggest problem right now though is that your under the irrational delusion that you need to play everything on real hardware.

Grab MAME and start downloading arcade roms. You will never play most of theses games otherwise, guaranteed.

There is a veritable library of masterpieces that you have yet to experience.

[Gamer683441]

I got BioMetal a few hours ago, popped it in my SNES, and was fucking BLOWN AWAY. This is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYY better than Gradius! Now I see why you people like shmups so much!

Your biggest problem right now though is that your under the irrational delusion that you need to play everything on real hardware.

Grab MAME and start downloading arcade roms. You will never play most of theses games otherwise, guaranteed.

There is a veritable library of masterpieces that you have yet to experience.

I get what you're saying, but to some , myself included is nothing better than popping in a 16 bit cartridge in your Genesis and having a go. There's a feeling of ownership that some will understand what I mean. Also in my case having a family, business etc, I don't get to play as much as the old days . So , I only buy and play a few games a year, so I try and make them count. I'm looking forward to soon buying Souky, and DoDon pachin on Saturn and there is something that's still exciting about that, just like when I was a kid. SO in closing you are right in that its just more practical to go mame, but to old timers like me, saving and waiting to get that special game is still magical.

[pegboy]

Squire dropping the truth in that post.

Buying console ports of arcade games is a complete waste of money. Almost none of them are accurate to the actual arcade board, even most of the ones that get tossed around here as being "arcade perfect", especially in the 16-32 bit era, are absolutely not.

Just as an example, I couldn't believe how shitty the supposed "arcade perfect" version of Thunderforce AC on the Saturn was. The dummies changed up all the scoring for no reason and even added points to parts that allow you to counterstop the damn game. So stupid.

DoDonPachi on Saturn sucks and is a waste of money. The game is completely ruined compared to the arcade version, and is not worth putting any real time into unless you don't give a crap about it being close to the real version. Just play that stuff in MAME.

People need to stop playing mind games with themselves and fawning over playing on "real hardware". Guess what, the Saturn port is not playing on real hardware, the only way to do that is with the PCB. You are simply playing a gimped version that doesn't stack up to the real thing.

[WelshMegalodon]

While I don't disagree with you, pegboy, it's certainly something hearing this from someone who, until recently, had nothing but authentic hardware captures on his YouTube channel. (On that note, you've done the world a great service by uploading the only full run of Musha Aleste recorded from an actual system - that I've seen, at least - and by extension the only upload of the Musha Aleste soundtrack that wasn't recorded in an emulator.) I take it Thunder Force AC and Dodonpachi are not the only serious offenders? I'm curious as to whether any of the Konami conversions on your channel (for example) exhibit behaviors causing them to be less than 'arcade perfect'.

And I'm stating the obvious here, but considering the current state of arcade emulation, real hardware is still the best choice for titles like Giga Wing 2... or most Cave shooters.

[atheistgod1999]

Buying console ports of arcade games is a complete waste of money.

I know; that's why I'm planning on getting a Supergun in the near future (have to find a way to have another CRT just for vertical-orientation games in the limited space of my bedroom) and am only buying shmups originally developed for consoles ATM.

[pegboy]

While I don't disagree with you, pegboy, it's certainly something hearing this from someone who, until recently, had nothing but authentic hardware captures on his YouTube channel. (On that note, you've done the world a great service by uploading the only full run of Musha Aleste recorded from an actual system - that I've seen, at least - and by extension the only upload of the Musha Aleste soundtrack that wasn't recorded in an emulator.) I take it Thunder Force AC and Dodonpachi are not the only serious offenders? I'm curious as to whether any of the Konami conversions on your channel (for example) exhibit behaviors causing them to be less than 'arcade perfect'.

And I'm stating the obvious here, but considering the current state of arcade emulation, real hardware is still the best choice for titles like Giga Wing 2... or most Cave shooters.

Warning...incoming rant.

Well here's the deal. I will play using original hardware when I can, and my intent is to use the most definitive version of the game that I have available. For most console exclusives such as MUSHA, Space Megaforce, R-Type III, etc I own all of those games so I will just play them and capture from the original systems. I will always do this for console exclusives and "ports" that I deem to be different enough from the source material to be their own game (ex: Gradius III SNES, Raiden Trad, etc). These types of ports never pretend to be arcade perfect and are basically different games. I didn't already own them I'd probably play something else or use a flash cart.

So that's all fine and good but I wanted to broaden my horizons and try some hardcore arcade stuff like Psikyo and Cave so my focus changed a bit. I was still attempting to play on "original hardware" or in other words the supposed arcade perfect ports on the PS1, Saturn, etc. This is where I finally got burnt.

While many of them are quite good (Salamander 2, Gradius III & IV, etc) there are also others that are just broken and contain some of dumbest and most idiotic changes imaginable. I can't even begin to describe some of the stupid fucking changes I've encountered in these supposed "arcade perfect ports". The specific change that drove me away from these ports was in Strikers 1945 II (PS1, Saturn, PS2), where theyy not only changed the size of the player hitbox to be bigger, but also made it variable between different ships. Safe spots that work in the arcade no longer work in these ports, and discovering this deep into a loop 2 and ruining my credit was the final straw.

At this point I've pretty much written off these types of ports entirely, and it has proven to be the correct decision after I examined the Thunder Force AC port on Saturn. Not only are the music and sound effects terrible compared to the arcade version, but they interjected a bunch of retarded changes for no reason. They took what was essentially a game with a solid scoring system and ruined it, and for absolutely no reason that I can see. Why alter point values in a port that is trying to be authentic to the arcade? Why add the ability to counterstop the fucking game for no reason?

I want to play the real arcade version but I don't have room or the time to setup cabinets and buy PCBs for dozens of arcade games. MAME is the only answer for this stuff, I'm sick of getting burnt by these stupid ports that are crippled. The only time it is worth exploring is if the MAME emulation is broken or incomplete. Gradius IV is a good example, the PS2 version appears to be nearly perfect as far as I can tell but the MAME version is unplayable.

[Stevens]

Stage 4, other than the regenerating uterine lining, is looking good. That last part is going to take some work.

[WelshMegalodon]

Well here's the deal. I will play using original hardware when I can, and my intent is to use the most definitive version of the game that I have available. For most console exclusives such as MUSHA, Space Megaforce, R-Type III, etc I own all of those games so I will just play them and capture from the original systems. I will always do this for console exclusives and "ports" that I deem to be different enough from the source material to be their own game (ex: Gradius III SNES, Raiden Trad, etc). These types of ports never pretend to be arcade perfect and are basically different games. I didn't already own them I'd probably play something else or use a flash cart.

So that's all fine and good but I wanted to broaden my horizons and try some hardcore arcade stuff like Psikyo and Cave so my focus changed a bit. I was still attempting to play on "original hardware" or in other words the supposed arcade perfect ports on the PS1, Saturn, etc. This is where I finally got burnt.

While many of them are quite good (Salamander 2, Gradius III & IV, etc) there are also others that are just broken and contain some of dumbest and most idiotic changes imaginable. I can't even begin to describe some of the stupid fucking changes I've encountered in these supposed "arcade perfect ports". The specific change that drove me away from these ports was in Strikers 1945 II (PS1, Saturn, PS2), where theyy not only changed the size of the player hitbox to be bigger, but also made it variable between different ships. Safe spots that work in the arcade no longer work in these ports, and discovering this deep into a loop 2 and ruining my credit was the final straw.

At this point I've pretty much written off these types of ports entirely, and it has proven to be the correct decision after I examined the Thunder Force AC port on Saturn. Not only are the music and sound effects terrible compared to the arcade version, but they interjected a bunch of retarded changes for no reason. They took what was essentially a game with a solid scoring system and ruined it, and for absolutely no reason that I can see. Why alter point values in a port that is trying to be authentic to the arcade? Why add the ability to counterstop the fucking game for no reason?

I want to play the real arcade version but I don't have room or the time to setup cabinets and buy PCBs for dozens of arcade games. MAME is the only answer for this stuff, I'm sick of getting burnt by these stupid ports that are crippled. The only time it is worth exploring is if the MAME emulation is broken or incomplete. Gradius IV is a good example, the PS2 version appears to be nearly perfect as far as I can tell but the MAME version is unplayable.

Simply fascinating. I'm reminded of the sketchy ghost AI in early Namco Museum versions of Pac-Man, or of the random extends in GokuParo PS1. It certainly seems there's a need for us as a community to examine the ports of the PlayStation generation in greater scrutiny so as to avoid spreading misinformation.

Relevant old rant.

[Chaos Phoenixma]

Under Defeat's practice mode feels completely useless. I have no idea what I should be setting rank to, so I've just been starting from 1-1 and going from there.

Have gotten up to 1-3 on one credit now. Still making a lot of mistakes, and still can't get decent contribution. Not sure if this is good, but I'm switching to Rocket ASAP then trying to stay with that since it seems much more powerful than the other 2. Still prefer reverse for shot direction.

Not doing the whole dying twice in 1-1 to boost score thing because, I am not good enough to do so, I have no idea where you're supposed to die anyway, and it would probably screw up my contribution percent(then still end up with higher score anyway)

[Kollision]

just some 2 cents

while I do see the problems about lousy ports in regards to arcade perfection, especially for those who really take WRs seriously, labeling them as useless wrecks is also kinda mean
I will never have access to real arcades, so whatever?
MAME exists to offer a replacement, but in the end it's just emulation

[Stevens]

Under Defeat's practice mode feels completely useless. I have no idea what I should be setting rank to, so I've just been starting from 1-1 and going from there.

Max rank out in training.

Have gotten up to 1-3 on one credit now. Still making a lot of mistakes, and still can't get decent contribution. Not sure if this is good, but I'm switching to Rocket ASAP then trying to stay with that since it seems much more powerful than the other 2. Still prefer reverse for shot direction.

Rocket is the only way, the other two are useless imo. Reverse is fine, but if you stick with it long term you'll want to learn normal.

Not doing the whole dying twice in 1-1 to boost score thing because, I am not good enough to do so, I have no idea where you're supposed to die anyway, and it would probably screw up my contribution percent(then still end up with higher score anyway)

Don't do it!

Need anything else holler:D

[Gamer683441]

just some 2 cents

while I do see the problems about lousy ports in regards to arcade perfection, especially for those who really take WRs seriously, labeling them as useless wrecks is also kinda mean
I will never have access to real arcades, so whatever?
MAME exists to offer a replacement, but in the end it's just emulation

This!! At the end of the day we as individuals are the ultimate judge on what is the best version to play. Pretty much in every case I myself am buying said game and its my opinion that matters the most as to which version I play. Which is why I never listen to reviews, as there have been times where the gaming media has given a low score to a game, but has ended up great for me. A little different from the mame argument but you get the picture. I don't like how theres this attitude of "if you're not playing this or that version you're wasting your time". I say that's BS. Play and enjoy the games you want to the way YOU want to. Unless someone else is paying and financing your hobby, they don't have a right to tell you you have to do anything.

[pegboy]

If you want to play the worst versions of those games im certainly not going to stop you. To me its a waste of time when the real versions are easily playable in mame. Most of those ports shouldnt be allowed on here for scoring purposes though.

[Jonst]

@stevens, I do enjoy sdoj. It's just that I don't feel like I'm making any progression, regardless of how much I play it, even replays don't seem to help. Despite having tons of games, I feel stuck in a rut.

[Stevens]

How far off from a clear do you think you are?

Also maybe there is something on Fightcade you want to play?

https://www.fightcade.com/games/