Definition of "beating" a shmup...

[Acid King]

Ok, good point. I probably should have said 'decent score' rather than 'max score'/WR in my original post. My main point is just that in most shooters, playing for score and playing for survival are not nearly so separate as they are in Ikaruga... probably part of the reason why Ikaruga has a ranking system to begin with.

Not so much but it's still there. Ikaruga makes it a bit more visible by giving you rankings at the end of the stage, which really are nothing more than score markers that let you know how close you are to the max score of the stage. Even in games like DP and DDP, as Valgar pointed out, there is a still a pretty monumental difference between simply clearing the game and really figuring it out.

[Randorama]

To my knowledge, Dimahoo can be 1-CCed by getting about 5-6M out of the possible max-out (i.e. 99,999,990 points). Off the top of my head, i think Gigawing 2 is the one with the widest difference...a simple 1-CC can be,well, 0 points, againt 90 quintillion of whatever.
The 0 points 1-CC is not easy, though, for obvious reasons, while a straightforward 1-CC is in the range of 0,5% of top scores. In general, though, modern shmups allow for something between 20-35% of the maximum to be a standard score for a 1-CC.

[doctorx0079]

When I get a shmup I like to put it on the easiest possible setting and credit feed it until I get to the end. Then I try to get through it with less and less continues. When I get to the point that I can 1CC it on the easiest setting, I turn it up a notch and start the process again. I suspect that this is the fastest way to learn. It also is a lot more interesting and fun than playing stage 1 over and over 999999999 times at the Excruciating setting.

Of course I think you should get extra bonus stuff for beating it at higher difficulty. Like better endings, bonus ships, illustrations, even extra levels or a special mode, like 13 Ships Mode in Raystorm.

And yes, 13 Ships Mode has a different ending.

[neorichieb1971]

I 've joined this thread late, but I read the 1st post.

Unfortunately the definition of completing a game these days is when you have seen it all. A bit like watching a movie, you watched it till the end, now its over.. done and dusted, next please!


In the case of shmups, alot of people will credit feed the game until the end, due to insane difficulty of most shmups (at least thats how I observe them hehe) the player will assume thats the only way to possibly beat the game.

The first games that were designed on a microchip were repetitive and had gameplay in spades, these days games are spanned over 3 DVD's and become exploration exercises. It shouldn't come as a surprise that people playing shmups this late in the genres lifespan would approach shmups with the same ideology they applied to Resident evil or Final Fantasy.

[SAM]

Get the game disc/cart out of the it's case and beat it with your fist.

[Klatrymadon]

How do you chaps feel about games with checkpoints? If someone credit-feeds their way to the end of, say, Super R-Type, they may have a very low score, but they'll still have to learn and get through every attack wave in the game for themselves. Personally I always play with a single credit, but I wouldn't call that a completely worthless run...

[neojma]

My interpretation of "beat" is that you complete all of the game's regular (non-secret) stages and finish the game. I don't care if you use unlimited continues or super easy difficulty settings. I don't care if you don't get to a "secret" stage (i.e. Psyvariar). If you beat the end boss, you "beat" the game.

Of course, I think that concept is completely irrelevant to shmups. It's a genre made to be played again and again. You can try on a higher difficulty, with less credits (or 1cc), or for higher score. You can restrict yourself to starting from the beginning when you lose a credit (masochistic, but perfectly viable), or just blast on through and take a look at all of the levels, enemies, and patterns. "Beating" a shmup doesn't mean you should put it away, never to be played again. You may "beat" a good shmup 1000 times and not be finished with it, because you can play it again and again.

One person might "beat" the game with more skill than another - either with less continues or higher score. But even the completely unskilled player who uses 87 continues on Baby difficulty finished the game. Even talking about defining "beat" only encourages the behavior of people thinking that once they see that "The End" screen (or "Game Over" coming after the last boss, not after a death) that's all there is.

[Iori Branford]

My interpretation of "beat" is that you complete all of the game's regular (non-secret) stages and finish the game. I don't care if you use unlimited continues or super easy difficulty settings. I don't care if you don't get to a "secret" stage (i.e. Psyvariar). If you beat the end boss, you "beat" the game.

Of course, I think that concept is completely irrelevant to shmups. It's a genre made to be played again and again. You can try on a higher difficulty, with less credits (or 1cc), or for higher score. You can restrict yourself to starting from the beginning when you lose a credit (masochistic, but perfectly viable), or just blast on through and take a look at all of the levels, enemies, and patterns. "Beating" a shmup doesn't mean you should put it away, never to be played again. You may "beat" a good shmup 1000 times and not be finished with it, because you can play it again and again.

One person might "beat" the game with more skill than another - either with less continues or higher score. But even the completely unskilled player who uses 87 continues on Baby difficulty finished the game. Even talking about defining "beat" only encourages the behavior of people thinking that once they see that "The End" screen (or "Game Over" coming after the last boss, not after a death) that's all there is.

This is correct. Most of you guys' definitions, 1CCs and such like, are what I consider "mastering" the game -- definitely a worthy achievement, but not a prerequisite for shmup manhood or whatever.

[dai jou bu]

So, uh, how does one 1CC Shoot the Bullet? The game already forces you to 1-life each scene.

[Minzoku]

Of course I think you should get extra bonus stuff for beating it at higher difficulty. Like better endings, bonus ships, illustrations, even extra levels or a special mode, like 13 Ships Mode in Raystorm.

And yes, 13 Ships Mode has a different ending.

Dragon Spirit Beat on Easy, you only play like half the game, and get the "It was all a dream!" ending. It's like the difference between watching a theatrical release of a movie, like Lord of the Rings, and watching the "with insane amounts of bonus footage" DVD extras version.

That there's no difference in the ending for different difficulty settings in a lot of games is disappointing I'm sure it wouldn't be that difficult to program in a crap "Now why don't you try hard??" ending for someone who credit feeds only!