Hori RAP questions

AAA · Post by **AAA** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 9:54 pm

hi all,
am looking to get a hori rap stick. have heard that the stick is sanwa but buttons are hori own design. what replacement buttons would you recommend and why?
also, what's the difference between the various rap models? remember a special edition coming out ages ago but can't find it anywhere.
cheers,
aaa

icycalm · Post by **icycalm** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 1:21 am

I am probably buying one of these next week.

So far, there have been 2 LEs released. First there was a Capcom Fighting Jam and recently there has been a Soul Calibur 3. I was planning to buy the SC3 one because it looks pretty cool, but then I tried it out and the stick was, of course, not suited for shooters. So if I got that I would have had to change the stick and I am not sure how hard that would be. I actually found several of them on discount for 3,980 yen, which is almost half of what all the other stores charge for it.

Actually, can someone tell me how hard it would be to switch out the stick for something more suited to shmups? Is it as easy as removing a couple of screws?

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 2:37 am

Without having looked at it, I would gander that it's not quite that easy. Well, the removing is, but you'll still have to do some soldering to make it work. Again, a guess, but I couldn't imagine it not requiring solder.

it290 · Post by **it290** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 3:26 am

I have the original HRAP model. Not sure if the SC3 model uses the same stick, but the stick in the regular one is indeed a standard Sanwa stick and it works great for shooters. I know some prefer Seimitsus for this purpose, but the Sanwa is more than adequate for me and I have no plans to change it out anytime soon. As for the buttons, they are quite good as well and feel quite close to the regular Sanwa buttons. I will probably change these out at some point in the future, but mainly just because I need to order some button covers and I figure I might as well get some buttons at the same time.

You can pretty much stick any standard 30mm button in there, the ones that are in the stick are snap-ins, but the screw-in type should work as well. No soldering is required to change these out -- they attach with quick connects that can be easily snapped on and off. The joystick also uses a connector that looks just like a PC floppy power connector, but I think Seimitsu sticks may use quick connects like the buttons do, meaning a bit of crimping and very minimal soldering may be required.

As for the limited versions, I believe what the original poster was referring to were the completely fitted models that were available -- IIRC there was a blue one with all Seimitsu parts (including buttons), and a red one with all Sanwa parts.

Keep in mind that the HRAP version 2 is also available -- it features an improved button layout and has a matte finish rather than the mirror finish of the original (which is nice, but sensitive to dust and scratches). From looking at pictures, it looks like the SC3 model uses the layout of the original HRAP rather than the version 2 layout.

Ganelon · Post by **Ganelon** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 5:06 am

Special Addition: Sanwa buttons+stick
Special Edition: Seimitseu buttons+stick

Both are quite rare and will set you back at least $150 for a used stick.

Do NOT get the SCIII HRAP unless you want a really weird button configuration designed specifically for SCIII.

The Tekken 5 has the HRAP2 layout but the configuration has a different L&R button placements.

Supposedly, both the SCIII and T5 HRAPs have soldered buttons so that's a lot of hassle if you plan on replacing the buttons.

The HRAP2's Hori buttons can easily be switched out with disconnects (as with the HRAP1 and CFJ HRAP).

Cheap buttons (at least within the US) can be found here:
http://www.vgonetwork.com/article.aspx?id=181
A reliable site with links to SRK. 30mm for the 8 regular buttons and 24mm for Start and Select (seems they've run out of some colors for OBSF-30).

Limbrooke · Post by **Limbrooke** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 12:47 pm

Regarding the T5 stick, the North American one may not even come with the Sanwa stick, in addition to both versions having soldered buttons so best to steer clear unless you feel comfortable in a more advanced mod.

In all regards the best bet is the HRAP. It's the cheapest one you can get and it's essentially the same platform used in the HRAP2 but cheaper. And no mirror faceplate. From what I've read it seems ok to swap sticks and buttons plus there are plenty of guides around not to mention: http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95713

I recently got a HRAP from Play-Asia and it took 2 days to arrive. This of course was tagged to a $50 shipping fee, which is what you should expect to pay from overseas. I'm very happy with the results and I might swap out for real Sanwa/Seimitsu soon, but the Hori buttons for now are sufficient.

As far as the Special Edition/Addition models. Those might be the best stock sticks around for HRAP. Since they both come either fully Seimitsu (SE) or Sanwa equiped (SA) you'd basically be getting the best deal. However, on a limited run and high demand these sticks are a rare sight, let alone for sale.

Here is a guide for swapping to a Seimitsu stick in the regular HRAP

http://www.geocities.jp/u3q_yusaku/seimitsu.html

tekneekz · Post by **tekneekz** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 12:59 pm

i have hrap 1 and 2, their both identical in response. id recommend both even tho both have slight diff button layout. i find myself using the hrap 2 more = less cleaning the mirro top from the hrap 1. their both very easily modded if u just want to change buttons. yuoll want 30 mm snap in or screw in buttons from sanwa or seimitsu. id prefer seimitsu for shmups.
to change buttons on the hrap 1 and 2 are the same way. unscrew the 8 screws under bottom. then your gonna need a socket wrench with a socket for 7 mm to unscrew the 6 screws on the face of the hrap 1/2 from under. after that just use a plier and yank the quick disconnects off the buttons and get a flat head to push the button sides in to take it out and reverse the job. easy with hrap. i think the soul calibur 3 stick u have to solder im not too sure. hope this helps. hraps are top of the line joysticks. id get them from www.vgonetwork.com thats where i got both my hraps, they have the hrap 2 at a good price of like 110

AAA · Post by **AAA** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 3:17 pm

sweet info - thanks a lot.
one more newb question (don't laugh!).
changing the Sanwa JLF stick to the Seimitsu one - pros and cons of changing?

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 3:21 pm

Seimitsu is a stiffer stick... I have come to prefer it for games w/ a hitbox that is roughly half a pixel in size (eg: cave anything). Most game centers in Japan though... at least the handful I've played in, have Sanwa stuff across the board. Or they are worn down Sanwas.

oxtsu · Post by **oxtsu** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 10:04 pm

I would suggest the Seimitsu LS-32-01 or LS-55/56-01 for the swap into Hori RAP. These are all great sticks and will be a simple bolt on+plug in. Seimitsu in general uses a harder spring than Sanwa. They also have a more metal feeling because of the 'eyelash* over micro' design.

*Ok..the accepted term might be 'actuator'; I just call them 'eyelash'

All 30mm buttons will drop in without mods (this is basically an arcade control panel). The only caveat is for that for the revised layout models (SE,SA, RAP2, etc), the screw type buttons have some clearance problem on one of the buttons nearest the stick. Snap-in buttons are needed there.

About the RAP SE/SA... they used the upgraded durability 'X' and 'RG' type buttons. This is why the Hori retail price was $20 over the standard RAP.

Limbrooke · Post by **Limbrooke** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 12:11 am

tekneekz wrote:i have hrap 1 and 2, their both identical in response. id recommend both even tho both have slight diff button layout. i find myself using the hrap 2 more = less cleaning the mirro top from the hrap 1

Actually the HRAP ver.1 no longer comes with mirror top(Not new anyways). Now it's the same as the rest, seems to have been the wise move since you mentioned the all too uncommon cleaning.

Post by **spadgy** » Fri May 02, 2008 12:48 pm

oxtsu wrote:I would suggest the Seimitsu LS-32-01 or LS-55/56-01 for the swap into Hori RAP. These are all great sticks and will be a simple bolt on+plug in.

So all these fit an HRAP2 then. Why would you chose one over the other, or rather; what distinguishes them? I see the baseplate does but why would that effect things if they all fit (that said, I've read that the LS-32-01 seems to fit in terms of space)? I have an LS-56-01 in my VSHG, which I love, but it's a bit short in terms of height.

Oh - and I know what '-01' distinguishes, so I don't mean that.

OK - Answering my own questions a little this is great for distingusing stuff, but it doesn't detail stick height.

EDIT: Starcab lists stick dimensions. Which means I think I have all the variables covered apart from baseplate compatibility with the HRAP2

ReKleSS · Post by **ReKleSS** » Sat May 03, 2008 1:26 am

The LS-32 can be difficult to install into some HRAP variations. The LS-55 and LS-56 are drop-in replacements for the Sanwa JLF, and will come up to the same height. The LS-56 is a low maintenance version or something, but the parts list doesn't seem to include a shaft cover or 4/8 way sub restrictor.

honorless · Post by **honorless** » Sat May 03, 2008 3:35 am

spadgy wrote:...I think I have all the variables covered apart from baseplate compatibility with the HRAP2

Here is fubarduck's excellent HRAP2 modding guide from SRK. He actually replaces the existing Sanwa joystick with the LS-32-02.
I would advise you to go and look—but the short of it is that you will need to rotate the mounting plate on the LS-32-01/02 and place the screws in slightly different holes on the stick in order to make it fit. All in all, very minor adjustments since you'll be screwing and unscrewing things just to open the stick up.

According to one of oxtsu's posts, the LS-32 is more heavy-duty and should be lubricated every so often because it uses bearings.
The LS-55 & 56 don't use bearings, so they shouldn't need to be lubricated. I don't know what adjustments would need to be made for the holes in their mounting plates...

doodude · Post by **doodude** » Sat May 03, 2008 4:32 am

honorless wrote:
spadgy wrote:...I think I have all the variables covered apart from baseplate compatibility with the HRAP2
Here is fubarduck's excellent HRAP2 modding guide from SRK. He actually replaces the existing Sanwa joystick with the LS-32-02.
I would advise you to go and look—but the short of it is that you will need to rotate the mounting plate on the LS-32-01/02 and place the screws in slightly different holes on the stick in order to make it fit. All in all, very minor adjustments since you'll be screwing and unscrewing things just to open the stick up.

According to one of oxtsu's posts, the LS-32 is more heavy-duty and should be lubricated every so often because it uses bearings.
The LS-55 & 56 don't use bearings, so they shouldn't need to be lubricated. I don't know what adjustments would need to be made for the holes in their mounting plates...

Great Post honorless, thanks!

Post by **spadgy** » Sat May 03, 2008 9:12 am

Yes! Thanks so much. I was looking for a Fighting Stick Multi to replace the awful SNES and MD official sticks. Hard to come by! Then Beam just said I should buy a HRAP and some Totoek converters. I thought it would be a while before I found one until I stumbled into a store that very day with one for sale for £41.

Looks like I need to get buying some parts again then...