Questions that do not deserve a thread

[Guspaz]

There are some really fantastic GBC games, such as at the very least the three Zelda games (Link's Awakening, Oracle of Ages, Oracle of Seasons)

[FinalBaton]

I know, I know haha

But as I've said : I like to keep my setup to a few consoles (and their game library).

I know this might seem weird in an era where hardcore retro-gamers strive to acquire many consoles (and there are a LOT of great consoles worth collecting for, don't get me wrong). But that's just how I roll.

[Shoryukev]

I wonder if there are any modders working on a consolized GB of any sort? There is a big modding scene for the DMG (I've backlit and biverted mine), I'm surprised it doesn't have a TV output mod-kit like the Game Gear does.

[Guspaz]

There is the hdmyboy (or the "H.D., ma boy!", as Try calls it, which is great ) but AFAIK nothing for the GBC. The GBA has that Innovation mod, but it's terrible... but there's no reason why a similar mod couldn't be done right, and just by tapping into the LCD ribbon cable perhaps...

EDIT: A consolized GBA is sort of pointless, because there's already an official consolized GBA, and it's not very expensive to get working (to buy everything you need from scratch, maybe $70, if you're fine with composite/s-video), the official (well, GBI isn't official, but the hardware is) option works very well, and it's almost certain that a well done consolized GBA would cost more than the GCN/GBP/GBI combo. More compact, sure, but cheaper than $70?

Now, if you want to include the cost of getting a GCVideo installed so that your combo has HDMI, well, maybe then you could do something cheaper, but it'd be real hard to beat, considering how cheap the official hardware is. A Game Boy Player is $10 USD on eBay.

[FinalBaton]

Agreed that the demand wouldn't be big since the GBP already exists. I assume that people in my position are in the minority.

No way you can get a Gamecube + GBP + boot disk for $70 right now though.
More like $100 US/ $125 CAN + shipping. if you're lucky.

[Guspaz]

My assumption is that you (not you, the general sense) don't want the boot disc because GBI is a much better solution. The cost of doing GBI, well, the XenoGC is $8, and the SD-based things are pretty cheap too, no? The GBP is $10 (based on the lowest buy-it-now of a working unit on eBay), and my most recent GCN purchase cost around $18 with no cables included, so tack on some extra for the basic accessories. So that's $36 for a GameCube with a Game Boy Player and the means to load homebrew, plus some extra for cables and shipping.

[Unseen]

but there's no reason why a similar mod couldn't be done right, and just by tapping into the LCD ribbon cable perhaps...

It would be helpful to allow at least one more connection to tap into the main oscillator - the clock signal on the LCD ribbon cable is only active while pixels are sent to the display to save a bit of power. In principle, a DVI output(*) for the GBA could be implemented using the same FPGA board that GCVideo-DVI uses, but the timing would be very far away from any standard TV timing. It's possible to get a lot closer by buffering the image, but that would introduce one frame of lag and would need an FPGA board with a bit of external RAM.

(no, this is not a hidden project announcement)

(*) In this case it would really be DVI - the GBA only has analog sound available internally, an ADC chip is needed to convert it to digital for HDMI

[FinalBaton]

Didn't know about the cost of the disc used for GBI. That shaves off a good chunk of money, as as the official Nintendo disc is usually sold for $30-$40 US alone, or $60 US and up bundled with the player

[Extrems]

In this case it would really be DVI - the GBA only has analog sound available internally, an ADC chip is needed to convert it to digital for HDMI

The unfiltered PWM output is directly connected on the Game Boy Player, and it's up to software to decode it to PCM.

[Guspaz]

It would be helpful to allow at least one more connection to tap into the main oscillator - the clock signal on the LCD ribbon cable is only active while pixels are sent to the display to save a bit of power. In principle, a DVI output(*) for the GBA could be implemented using the same FPGA board that GCVideo-DVI uses, but the timing would be very far away from any standard TV timing. It's possible to get a lot closer by buffering the image, but that would introduce one frame of lag and would need an FPGA board with a bit of external RAM.

I'd imagine that compatibility would have the same issue as GBI ULL does. If GCVideo-DVI simply outputs at the same framerate as the GCN, would GBI ULL on GCVideo-DVI not be essentially the same situation as what you're describing? What's the compatibility on that like?

Didn't know about the cost of the disc used for GBI. That shaves off a good chunk of money, as as the official Nintendo disc is usually sold for $30-$40 US alone, or $60 US and up bundled with the player

$8 is for the mod chip that allows you to use DVD-R. If you simply take the top off the GCN and use it like that, they're cheap. If you need to buy mini DVD-R, those tend to cost a dollar or two per disc. The Datel SD Media Loader is now super expensive, so that's not really an option. There are soft-mod options, and some mod chips support the very cheap SDGecko to load off SD through the memory card slot, so there are still cheap options.

[d_p 88]

Can anyone identify this JVC for me?
https://detroit.craigslist.org/okl/ele/5664514747.html

[Unseen]

The unfiltered PWM output is directly connected on the Game Boy Player, and it's up to software to decode it to PCM.

Oh, I didn't know that it was just a PWM output instead of a "real" DAC - thanks!

I'd imagine that compatibility would have the same issue as GBI ULL does.

No, much worse. The GBA uses ~13kHz horizontal scan rate, a non-frame-buffering interface would use an integer multiple of that (assuming plain line repetition without interpolation). I don't think that GBI-ULL outputs a video signal with (much) less than the standard 262 lines per field (240 active), otherwise it likely wouldn't work on standard SD CRTs. At least my PVM didn't sync to the signal when I fed it with the unmodified GBA video timing.

I should note that I oversimplified things a bit when I mentioned 1 frame of lag with a frame buffer - with proper synchronization (which I assume GBI-ULL uses) it's strictly less than one frame, although I'm too lazy to work out the minimum required right now. (probably something based on the ratio of the lines in the black bars to the total image lines)

If GCVideo-DVI simply outputs at the same framerate as the GCN, would GBI ULL on GCVideo-DVI not be essentially the same situation as what you're describing?

No, I assume that GBI ULL still adds black borders on the top and bottom of the image. Since the horizontal scan rate of the GBA is slower than that of a TV signal (~13.6 kHz vs. ~15.7kHz) and the output is (almost) frame-locked to the GBA, the output displays the GBA's pixel data faster than the GBA delivers it and the black bars take up the remainder of the time. Ideally, you want to set the timing so that the GBA delivers the bottom-right pixel of the image just when the output needs it to get the smallest amount of lag. The top left pixel would suffer the highest amount of lag since it would need to stay in the buffer for the longest time.

[Guspaz]

GBI does indeed have borders on all sides, in 240p mode it's displaying the GBA image at 1:1.

Extrems could provide more information about the particulars, but my understanding is that GBI-ULL doesn't have a framebuffer, and when the GBA and GCN video output drifts out of sync, you get this weird sort of interlaced tearing where every other line is tearing over a bunch of scanlines, and it gradually drifts across the screen and then goes away for a while. I assume the GameCube itself always has some sort of framebuffer, so maybe GBI is just directly drawing the video data from the GBI to the front buffer as it comes in? It tries to sync the GCN refresh rate to the GBA one, so it wouldn't matter how the horizontal rates differ, as long as the GCN's video output doesn't cross over the point at which GBI is writing to the front buffer. And when that happens, the tearing.

[FinalBaton]

Well, I went with a SRA, brand new, $60 CAN(so roughly $45 US) including taxes and shipping

I'm hopeful I'll be satisfied with this purchase. It looks like quite a decent little thing. Both thorough reviews I read were reassuring : according to them, the horizontal scrolling is smooth and game compatibility is great. the picture filling the whole screen on a 4:3 set is not the native 3:2 ratio, of course, but it's nowhere near as bad as 4:3 native video stretched on a 16:9 display, as one reviewer mentioned. Both reviewers seemed to enjoy the full screen 4:3 picture quite a bit. And on 16:9 displays it fills almost the whole screen save for thin black borders on each side, which should get the picture pretty close to 3:2

I'm curious to try it out, I'll let you guys know how it fares

[FinalBaton]

I wish I had an IS-Nitro-Capture

GBA and DS games upscaled full screen on your TV? That's a metroidvania fan's dream

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh9pHzKFXE4

[FinalBaton]

But more seriously; there's a video capture card mod for the DS, is there not?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGWR8yjWat4

It still looks very crisp at 400% zoom, that's pretty impressive. Wonder how much lag it has?



From what I understand it plugs into your PC via USB?
Well I got both my flatscreen TV and my NEC crt plugged in my pc, so I could use it on both. Wouldn't have a 240p picture on the CRT though. But would still look awesome I bet

[blizzz]

But more seriously; there's a video capture card mod for the DS, is there not?

Yes, there is.

I recently had to open that DS because for some reason the ribbon cable to the upper screen lost contact. Capture was still fine, but the screen had extremely low contrast. Turns out that the screw that is removed by the mod is actually needed to secure the cable. Well, not that anyone is still modding old-school DS consoles now that you can get a video-out mod for the N3DS.

[FinalBaton]

But more seriously; there's a video capture card mod for the DS, is there not?

Yes, there is.

I recently had to open that DS because for some reason the ribbon cable to the upper screen lost contact. Capture was still fine, but the screen had extremely low contrast. Turns out that the screw that is removed by the mod is actually needed to secure the cable. Well, not that anyone is still modding old-school DS consoles now that you can get a video-out mod for the N3DS.

hehe, I was hoping you would show up Blizzz

So, no-one is modding DS anymore, huh? That's a shame, the GBA retro compatibility on those make that mod pretty interesting I think. (Not that I have the money for that right now anyway).

[blizzz]

The order page is still up, but I would contact loopy first before you send any money. Not sure if the site has been updated in the last years, and I heard some stuff that he stopped selling 3DS capture boards temporarily. Here's the link: http://3dscapture.com/ds/index.html

The mod itself is pretty easy, you just need to drill a hole in the shell for the USB connector. That hole removes one of the screws though. I had to wedge some paper in to make the ribbon cable make proper contact. Never did any lag tests, but the video quality is really nice. As far as I can tell it's raw RGB (4:4:4).

[Guspaz]

It's capturing over USB, so the display is your computer, and you're going to suffer from however much lag you normally have displaying stuff on your computer. Plus presumably a frame or two for processing.

If it means anything, I asked Romscout (one of the better known Castlevania speedrunners) about lag on his (3?)DS capture solution, and he reported that the lag was low enough that he didn't notice it. Then again, he's used to playing SoTN on a 360, which presumably has a bunch more lag than the PS1 did. Either way, it shouldn't be too bad.

[FinalBaton]

It's capturing over USB, so the display is your computer, and you're going to suffer from however much lag you normally have displaying stuff on your computer. Plus presumably a frame or two for processing.

If it means anything, I asked Romscout (one of the better known Castlevania speedrunners) about lag on his (3?)DS capture solution, and he reported that the lag was low enough that he didn't notice it. Then again, he's used to playing SoTN on a 360, which presumably has a bunch more lag than the PS1 did. Either way, it shouldn't be too bad.

Ah, didn't think about computer lag. Display lag won't be a problem since I have a CRT monitor, but the lag introdiced by my computer, I have no idea how much that would be. I'm pretty sensitive to lag so I don't think I'll go that route then. My HDTV's (36ms lag) bug me enough that I don't use it for Street Fighter

[Einzelherz]

I bought a USB color calibration dealy last week and this week I've had a hand at trying to calibrate my three monitors. Last night was the first go, and using HCFR I used this greyscale calibration tutorial: http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457 and was pretty happy as they all had very little Delta E at the end. This morning I turned them on to see if they would still be checking out ok and they were significantly off. This was all via component on my Wii.

So I recalibrated again, as well as tweaked the colors on my Philips consumer CRT. Later today I took a third look and two of them seemed far too blue now in RGB (at least on the greyscale) so I redid them a third time. My Delta E is getting worse, at least in the middle IRE range, but it's not too bad (~3-4).

Can anyone explain why I'm having such difficulty? I'm guessing that the daylight this morning may have messed up the readings, but I figure that since I'm very new to this, there could be something else I completely don't understand going on.

Thanks in advance.

[cfx]

.

[nissling]

A couple of notes...

* Like the previous guy said, warm up the display. No matter if it's a CRT, PDP, LCD or OLED it will give different measuring results depending on how long the unit itself has been turned on. Minimum is 30 minutes for any display.
* Make sure that brightness, contrast and gamma settings are correct before you start playing with the gray scale. For that you won't need a colorimeter.
* Don't take the measuring too serious. As you only measure specific point the viewed results in the software will only show the data for those specific points. If you measure 45IRE and 50IRE the diagram won't tell you anything about 47,5IRE.
* When adjusting the white balance keep an eye on a linear, complete grey scale. Once "steps" look significantly distinguishable from others there's something wrong.
* Measuring should only be considered as a tool. You're still the one trying to make a calibration. Using your own eyes and making sure that nothing wrong is up is something very important when it comes to calibration of displays. I.e. early gen OLED displays by LG could measure perfectly with the color gamut set to "wide" yet a completely red tomato may turn out pale pink.
* Judging from your description I'd recommend to reset the profile and give it a new try.

What colorimeter do you have at the moment? I personally prefer using Spectracal C3 for less critical moments (or low-end displays) and X-Rite i1Display Pro when doing something more "serious". As for software I only go with CalMAN.

[Einzelherz]

I did all of the procedure above. Let them all warm a half hour, with the colorimeter on the screen just to keep it at a similar temp. I adjusted the contrast and brightness first, using the colorimeter, according to the link I posted (Y value 100 - 110 at IRE 100, and Y value .650 - .715 at IRE 10) as best I could.

I'm using a Colormunki which is the same sensor as the i1 display pro.

I'm going to start them up here soon and see what they look like. On the 20L2 last night I ran out of red high end so I lowered the green, readjusted the contrast, and redid it.

I've also noticed a slight difference in the greyscale using the 240p suite on DC over RGB vs component on the Wii. They aren't using the same release version though, but I hope that's not the problem.

[nissling]

Well if you've got 110cd/m^2 at 100IRE you should have 0.694cd/m^2 at 10IRE while 100cd/m^2 at 100IRE should give you 0,63cd/m^2 at 10IRE, as long as you're using a gamma standard at 2.2* (which is very common for CRTs. Judging from this there's no way for me to point out where the issue is unless I see the actual CRT although keep in mind that there may be some limitations with the display that you're using.

Some consoles do output an inferior grey scale than others. I.e. every Super Famicom I've seen to far have had a very bluish at 3-4IRE. What matters is that your display is showing the signal right and the only way to be completely sure is to use a certified source for test patterns when calibrating.

* To calculate the proper candela for the any individual IRE value use the following formula.

(X^Y)*Z

Where X is the IRE value (1 is 100IRE, 0,01 is 1IRE), Y is the gamma standard (most likely 2.2 in your case) and Z is the candela per square meter at 100IRE. The result will give you the exact value for each IRE step per square meter.

[Einzelherz]

Here is a close facsimile of the color issues based on signal type/system. Top left is JVC TM-H150CGU, below is PVM-14L5 and to their right is a PVM-20L2. It suggests to me that the 14L5 has something wrong with it.



The top photo is RGB (Dreamcast) and the bottom is Component (Wii). In the RGB photo the two smaller screens don't have as much red in them in person, I think that's a fault of my phone's camera. But in the Component photo that strong green tint is very prevalent in person on the 14L5. It goes away when you switch to 480p, because each signal gets its own settings.

This is partly why I'd love for the PS2 to get the suite ported to it so we can eliminate another variable factor, but that's another discussion.

[Guspaz]

Did you calibrate the component input? I'm not familiar with the L5 specifically, but on the L2, all the colour-calibration stuff that's disabled on RGB is available in component, like the CHROMA setting.

The L2 supports auto-calibration against SMPTE colour bars, and while I've not tried it over component, it's worked nicely for me over composite, so it's worth a try too.

[Einzelherz]

I calibrated using the bias and gain settings. I'm reluctant to let it run an auto calibration on component since I believe it's those settings that it changes.

When I calibrated by hand using the bias and gain on component, it changed the RGB colors shifting them red.

Edit: I checked the grey scale through S-Video via my Gamecube and it also is the green shade.

Edit edit: and strangely my 20L2 looks worse than the philips over S-video. I don't remember this being the case a few months ago before I rearranged the monitors. I hope I didn't damage it. It's a lot more blurry than I remember.

Edit edit edit: fixed the blurriness. When I did a factory load on the 20L2 yesterday I turned off some of the Decoder filters and that's what caused the added blur.

[LEGENOARYNINLIA]

Is there an affordable way to turn S-video into RGB? I want to watch fan translated episodes of old anime from my RGB CRT monitors with SCART. I can use the PS3, but the fan on it is so loud it's making me insane. I also have a laptop that can output S-video, but the RGB CRTs don't like like it. The monitors in question are a Philips CM-8833 and another Philips without a model number.