Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

[GSK]

I can't comment on the post-patch status of Slain (nor do I have any intention of ever playing it again) but the launch version was awful and I have no faith in the developers' ability to sculpt it into anything resembling a fun game.

Noitu Love 2 will be out on Wii U/3DS soon, incidentally.

[Ghegs]

Like I said, all reviews of the game made before May 30th (=based on the initial release) should just be ignored completely. It's improved by leaps and bounds.

[BIL]

Been playing The Ninja Warriors Again recently, brushing up my Ninja/Hard run. This game's AI is so volatile, and its mechanics are superbly responsive to technique - a true evergreen. SFC version is a must for the full range of crowd mixups - no Katanas in US/PAL, with Claw overload to compensate. Surely a simple colour edit of exposed flesh would've Bowdlerised things sufficiently? Perhaps it was ye olde "dun hit wimminz" at work, but Phasers are female too. Or sporting some very nice manboobs, at any rate.

Anyhoo, noticed something I'd been overlooking all these years. "Objects" (health restores, and anything it's possible to pick up and throw) occupy the same slots as enemies - max onscreen is four. So if you deliberately leave something sitting out, you'll very effectively bottleneck the incoming spawns. This is pretty irrelevant for the vast majority of the game - items and big crowds generally don't coincide. However, it's very relevant in the most intense crowd sequence, the stage 8 hangar onslaught (ta Perikles for GIF!).



In my current runs I typically reach this point with max health, and leave the juicy max restore sitting long into the fight. Usually I'll floor the final enemy, Pink Bruiser Reincarnation, with 75% or greater life remaining, then top up and go squash Banglar. I was feelin' pretty smug and ready to start recording runs! UNTIL I LEARNED THE ABOVE AWFUL TRUTH. 3:

So now I'm hellishly compelled to grab the health restore for max brawling action and it gets kinda ugly. Phasers + Flamers are a nasty combination, and hoooly cow if there's an enemy that makes me wish for a POW-metered "jam metal thumbs directly through eye sockets into brain" instakill grapple, it's Claws. I can still clear the game comfortably, but for now it's messier than I'd like. I hope this knowledge is useful and/or causes similar self-destructive showboatery!

[electricgrave]

This is a great thread, I just ran into it by mere chance.

My favorite game is Ninja Gaiden III NES, not the FC, I like it but I grew up with the NES and so I got used it. I love the NG series, it's my favorite of all when it comes to platformers or whatever this genre can be called.

I can 1CC the game, I do loose a life or 2 on "Spikes II" a couple leap of faiths that are hard to remember on the fly, no-death run yet...maybe some day...I did however had a no-death run on Kabuki Quantum Fighter, highly recommend the game for a quick 30 mins of sheer gameplay once you get more familiar with the ins and outs of it.

I also love Batman NES the Movie or as I like to call it "Sunsoft City" which I also 1CC'ed, the GB one had great music too but it plays more like Mario Land than Batman, I dunno, fun enough anyway.

I'm also a big fan of Castlevania NES, have 1CC'ed, looped it up to stage 24 and reset the counter by Death's Stage, them resurrecting skeletons are easy to milk with the cross.

I also recommend G.I. Joe the Taxan one, it's awesome! Like TMNT you can swap characters by pressing start, the game is solid and has some awesome music and stages. Cp. Grid Iron FTW!!!

Well, I'll scroll down some pages and see if I can find some titles I haven't ran into yet. Here's some recommends in case it hasn't been said.

Shatterhand
Werewolf
Power Blade 1 & 2
Kick Master

I just wanna end this with saying Ninja Spirit is amazing, greatest game for me, be it PCE or Arcade although I prefer the Arcade I play the PCE more 'cause I'm getting closer to a 1CC on PCE Mode, yeah NG3 will always be king but the gravity of NS can't be ignored, game is so incredibly fun and hard too!

[BIL]

NGIII NES is the real stuff, welcome aboard. ^__^ Lots of great sidescrollers in your post - have you played Metal Storm and Gimmick? Those are two Famicom titles I'd rank in the same company. Former is basically Image Fight on foot, or perhaps IREM's take on Shinobi. Super tight design with a flawlessly interwoven gravity mechanic. The latter looks cutesy ala Kirby but it's utterly hardcore, and eminently suited to single-credit play.

I'm messing about with Yami no Shigotonin Kage (JP Shadow of the Ninja) at the moment, trying to shake my bad habit of acing everything up to st4's lift shafts, failing disastrously, then restarting. Gotta resist the urge and use some continues. Survival-wise, it's not an especially hard sidescroller even by console standards... stylistically though, its triumvirate of damage powerdown, limited super ammo, and tight execution means you've gotta take your lumps before you can sweep through Ninja-style. Not an instant twitchy punch ala Ninja Gaiden, more a technical course to gradually master ala Super Shinobi.

Also, shaweet logo:

[Obiwanshinobi]

Made another attempt to play Gimmick! yesterday. Lesson in humility as usual.
Also, tried to warm up to the original Rockman again, but the engine seemed even more crude this time (paradoxically - in comparison to the likes of H.E.R.O. and Montezuma's Revenge SMS ports played lately, both generation-older at heart). Bucky O'Hare and Lickle both humble the first Mega Man on its home turf to say the least.
All the while, I had to admit the spritework and animations did a lot to liven it up and the game turned out oddly compulsive for such a primordial effort.

[electricgrave]

Thanks BIL, I'll check those games out, I've heard them mentioned before but never looked into them. As for Shadow of the Ninja, I have played it briefly but I definitely want to spend some time with it soon. Talking about Ninja Gaiden and Shadow of the Ninja, I actually beat Ninja Gaiden Shadow for GB way back when I was a kid but never 1CC'ed, that's another fun game to play through and I might just start working on it, I honestly don't remember the game being super hard.

I saw someone mentioned GB Bionic Commando, sometimes I like it better than the NES predecessor, great game!

I got one recommend that I love dearly.

NINJA 5-0 GBA, game is so good!

[BIL]

Oh hell yeah, I was actually going to mention Ninja Five-O; yet another personal favourite I only got into after this thread. Incredible game. Near-perfect fusion of Bionic Commando's grappling, Shinobi's precision rescues and Elevator Action Returns' mild tactical stealth. Crazy it never got a Japanese release.

I'd say it actually transcends BC - the flexibility of its grappling verges on Umihara Kawase's territory, though as with the sensibly minimal stealth, it's not quite so technical. And of course UK's a dedicated "wire sim" with combat a distant second; Five-O is 110% Sidescrolling Ninja Action!

Bionic Commando GB is damn good. I was surprised when I saw it was technically a remake of the NES game; the grappling engine is so refined, and it packs in so much new content, it easily qualifies as a true sequel. To date, the best sidescrolling action I've found on the original GB.

Ninja Gaiden GB is basically a mini Shadow of the Ninja sequel - from what I understand, Natsume were mid-development when it became a contracted NG entry. Same final boss BGM in both games, haha. I'm very fond of it - stages aren't as complex, but they're still a blast to perfect, and the simpler NG weapon system fits great. St5's suspension bridge is particularly satisfying to tear through. Speaking of, I love the super-violent explosions whenever a big enemy dies. That's some Raizing-calibre pyro, monochrome be damned!

[electricgrave]

Elevator action Returns is such a good game, I wasn't a huge Elevator Action fan until I played Returns. I'm so tempted to get me the Saturn port, I've been playing it on MAME exclusively. Do you know of any extras or special features with the Saturn port?

I dunno if this is the right place to talk about Turrican games but Gunlord is a great game as well. I have it for DC but I'd be willing to shell the money for the MVS cart if the situation presents itself, love the game to death!

Legend of Kage 2 for the DS wasn't half bad either and the 3DS Shinobi is actually pretty decent as well, not a masterpiece like Return of the Ninja Master or Legions but still a fun game, parrying is such great feature.

Ganryu for the NEO is another fun title with a grappling hook, although not as fluid as Ninja 5-O nor BC.

[BIL]

Oh yeah, Turrican/etc is totally cool here. This topic's pretty broad, haha - just about anything's sidescrolling is cool by me as long as there's substantial action to discuss. I like seeing Turrican convos, actually... I've little experience with the series myself.

Saturn EAR is much like VING's other Taito ports, eg Bubble Symphony, Metal Black and Mizubaku Daibouken. Light on extras (it actually includes a hidden port of the original arcade game, IIRC), but as a no-nonsense arcade port, it's superb. Very much an indulgence with MAME around - none of VING's ports pack killer exclusives ala Saturn Hyper Duel - but you'll know if you want 'em. :3

Shinobi Legions aka Shinobi X aka Shin Shinobi Den is underrated, imo - has some goofy aspects (mostly to do with the Scrooge McDuck katana bounce), but mechanically it's absolutely The Super Shinobi III. I really miss the somersaulting katana when I go back to the MD games, as good as they are.

[EmperorIng]

Elevator Action Returns on the Saturn is a straight accurate* port, with a bonus of the original Elevator Action thrown in on beating the game.

I love the game though I don't know if there is a real advantage the Saturn has over MAME, given the absurd prices of EAR recently.

*the Saturn port gives you 20 grenades to start with vs. (from what I hear) the 10 in the arcade, which I'm not familiar with.

The game is one of my favorite games, for sure. Smooth jazz music, ferocious violence, and satisfying levels. I still haven't 1CC'd it, though I've made it to the last stage on a single credit. I prefer using Edie's fire-grenades to set up defensive perimeters around enemy-spawning doors and edges of screens, but her health is tiny, tiny, tiny.

[BIL]

Ah yes... dozy, yet inquisitive AI. Omniscient viewpoint. And appalling but undeniably mirthful carnage. Can't beat EAR's sense of orchestrating your very own Die Hard/Home Alone/Three Stooges scenes. Fun for the whole family!

"AIEEE" *sweet bass lick* *automatic fire* "GUOAAARRR" *sax solo*

Edie player reporting in! Her blistering shot rate is extremely good at shutting off entry points, and if things get hectic, flame purifies all. Nothing gets close. She has the cutest mannerisms too! TBH, Karte and Jad feel like I'm handicapping myself, though they're very much worth trying for the experience alone. Love the former's hard-as-nails backfist. What did the backfist say to the face?

Spoiler

*BACKFIST*

IIRC (a big "if," it's been a good couple years), can't you adjust your starting bombs via menu? The same one that lets you unleash the "hard violence," I seem to recall.

[BrianC]

Last I checked, the lights still don't darken when shot with EAR in MAME. That's probably one advantage in playing the Saturn version.

While not arcade perfect, I definitely like the NES ports of Popeye, DK Jr., and Mario Bros quite a bit. In DK's case, it's not bad, but the Atari 800 version is my favorite BITD port. I highly recommend going for the NES versions of DK, DK Jr., and MB over their Atari 7800 counterparts since they are pretty much just straight up ports of the NES versions with inferior graphics and sound and no game B (the difficulties start on higher stages instead).

[BIL]

Last I checked, the lights still don't darken when shot with EAR in MAME. That's probably one advantage in playing the Saturn version.

Aww jeeze, that's still not been fixed? Always hated how shoddy that made the game look. I wonder if Rayforce's st3 miniboss ever got his parallel lasers back.

God I love seeing "Game B" in early Nintendo ports. The mark of quality and instant "arcade in a cartridge" engagement.

[BrianC]

God I love seeing "Game B" in early Nintendo ports. The mark of quality and instant "arcade in a cartridge" engagement.

I find it interesting that the HAL Atari ports also have game A and game B like Nintendo's ports.

Edit: Trying to find videos of a specific version of the HAL Atari ports is a pain. Too many JP version videos labeled as "Joust NES".

[BIL]

If I understood it right from my very brief readings, a few months back, wasn't there quite a bit of crossover between Nintendo and HAL in the early 80s? Balloon Fight, F1 Race and Mach Rider seem commonly accepted to have involved the latter's personnel, despite HAL's name never formally appearing on those (AFAIK).

The last couple years, I've grown to really love Nintendo's early works. The best stuff has the quality you'd expect from them, but it's not afraid to beat you down a little. :3 Even their failed experiments like Mach Rider can be pretty interesting.

[BrianC]

If I understood it right from my very brief readings, a few months back, wasn't there quite a bit of crossover between Nintendo and HAL in the early 80s? Balloon Fight, F1 Race and Mach Rider seem commonly accepted to have involved the latter's personnel, despite HAL's never actually appearing on those (AFAIK).

Don't forget Pinball, which was also confirmed to have HAL involvement and even has similarities to other HAL designed Pinball games like Rollerball (especially the MSX version) and Revenge of the Gator.

I don't know how true this is, but there's also a rumor that Nintendo worked on some of the HAL Atari games and that they were originally made because of Atari's offer to publish the Famicom in the US (which fell through). The music in Defender II/Stargate was reused in Mike Tyson's Punch Out.

[BIL]

[HAL Pinball games]

Oh yeah, that's true! I hadn't put two and two together, with Pinball and HAL's later stuff. I found FC Pinball itself a tad dull (it's certainly decent, but I like VG pinballs to have a little more punch... in early FC context, like the brutal BZZZZT when you get electrocuted in Balloon Fight ). From a more historical perspective, though, it does seem interesting.

[BrianC]

Not my favorite Nintendo game, but the interesting thing about Urban Champion is that it's pretty much an updated version of their Game & Watch Boxing game. Popeye and Donkey Kong 3 are also Game & Watch related. Popeye is a varation of the object catching games common in a few of the Game & Watch games. Donkey Kong 3 is an updated version of Green House and even has the inch worms from that game.

[electricgrave]

G&W fan over here as well!

Did anyone check them Collections for the DS? They are both really well done and if played with the original DS system the LCD feeling is all there, looks legit as hell!

The Second Collection is my favorite 'cause Parachute and Octopus are my favorites, the crossover mode is awesome, perfect mix and the multipliers are a lot of fun to do.

My Favorite G&W is Popeye for the Tabletop and Panorama setups, more of a nostalgic thing as I grew up with it along with Parachute but nonetheless those games were excellent and they still play really good.

Mind as well share this in case anyone missed it!
http://www.pica-pic.com/

Edit: Thanks for the heads up on that EAR missing dim lights. I'm gonna work with MAME regardless until I get proficient enough that I can warrant getting the port.

[BIL]

I'd like to add, EAR is one of the rare arcade games that actually benefits from upping the default difficulty - the max setting is like a quality second loop. The big change is that enemies no longer hesitate between spotting you and attacking. Without that reaction window, it takes on a deadly immediacy that's almost Rolling Thunder-esque. Cooperative play really shines on this difficulty, with the constant threat of a baddie ambushing you while you're otherwise engaged!

What always bugs me in MAME is the rocket launcher. Specifically, its no longer plunging entire floors into darkness as it rips through the crowd, human torches left in its wake as it crashes into the wall with an almighty screen-rattling bang. Even better if it hits a fusebox and blacks out the whole building, now that's some satisfactions.

All too literal elevator action

Spoiler

[BrianC]

I only have the first of the DS Game & Watch collections, but I like it quite a bit. I also have a few of the DSi recreations and a couple of the GB, GBC, and GBA collections. I especially like how the gameboy ones have updated versions. I only have a few of the actual handhelds. Snoopy tabletop, DK Jr color (both panaorama and Coleco published tabletop), Donkey Kong double screen, and Mario's Cement Factory handheld. I was surprised to see a reference to Snoopy on the My Nintendo webpage. The music notes from the boom box are colored like the ones in Snoopy.

[BIL]

Recorded a quick & nubby Kage clear over the weekend. No performance difference between Hayate and Kaede, I just prefer the latter's cute Kamui Den outfit. ;3

Took some bumps here and there, played it safe in st4.2's shafts, and faltered at 5.1's hover platforms. The big orange gunners are easily neutralised by rushing in close, which will force them to whiff with their clubs... trouble was, I kept forgetting that and trying to outrange their laser rings like a dumbass! Bad idea, with the lack of footing.

Happy enough though - didn't get powered down, or fall into any blasted pits. Sparing the player, while spitting them out sans powerups and a chunk of health, feels worse than any Hayabusa/BERUMONDO pratfall. I think this is what they were going for, haha!

Mostly wanted to give a sense of its very nice, initially elusive flow. It's a great game, but distinctly the middle child of Natsume's Dracula-esques. Not instantly accessible like Dragon Fighter, nor as sophisticated and ambitious as Solbrain. Harsh powerdowns and sparse upgrades make things particularly rough early on; the base weapons are meager, and beginners will be using 'em more than is comfortable. The execution barrier to a serviceable clear might seem disproportionate to the simple, generally static action. However, stage design delivers exactly the barrelling demolition course needed to redeem and excel; the maturing run is taut, varied, and geared for ever more aggressive displays of technique. Initially a bit stiff, but like any good performance piece, highly responsive to learned attack.

Mechanically it's actually a little screwy, though almost always benignly so. As a glimpse at any decent speedrun will show, air attacks boost your momentum significantly... looks and feels daft, yet also provides a useful shunt over otherwise impassable obstacles (like the final boss's tornadoes). And the lvl3 shuriken's homing behaviour is positively bent, conjuring memories of Salamander (AC)'s comically useless shield. Behold my homing jutsu!

Spoiler

(fortunately very ignorable, not least by immediately emptying them into the nearest enemy's face)

[atheistgod1999]

I'm on 5-3 in Ninja Gaiden atm. This game is one of the best I've ever played. Don't give me help tho because that would be cheating.

[Squire Grooktook]

Nah mang, it ain't cheating. No bit of advice or tip we could give you would help if you can't execute it. In the end, these games all come down to your own performance.

But if you enjoy discovering things yourself, that's fine too.

[atheistgod1999]

Alright, after 3 tries I finally figured out how to beat the Act V boss:

Spoiler

Just attack him until he dies and don't attempt to dodge his attacks because they are literally impossible. Sneaky design

Just got to Act VI.

Gonna get a haircut so I'll be gone for half an hour or so.

[dojo_b]

Last year I chugged thru NES games with a fastidious avoidance of hints. It never quite works, though. If you're excited about a game you will want to talk about it, read about it, and soon enough some essential bit of game-knowledge will pop up before you can avert your eyes.

Now I just accept this. I temper my neurotic side by reminding myself that (a) these games were made deliberately obtuse, not only to increase the play-time needed to beat them, but also to get kids talking about them, calling the hotline, and buying Nintendo Power mags; (b) kids are shameless cheaters and hint-consumers. (To this day I can't recall if youthful me ever legitimately beat Doom II, or just IDCLIP-ed all over the fucking place. The distinction didn't seem to matter at the time.) And since one major goal of my current gaming is to enjoy the canonical experiences of the NES generation (after enduring a computers-only childhood), I figure that free chatter *is* the authentic way to go.

[atheistgod1999]

Last year I chugged thru NES games with a fastidious avoidance of hints. It never quite works, though. If you're excited about a game you will want to talk about it, read about it, and soon enough some essential bit of game-knowledge will pop up before you can avert your eyes.

Now I just accept this. I temper my neurotic side by reminding myself that (a) these games were made deliberately obtuse, not only to increase the play-time needed to beat them, but also to get kids talking about them, calling the hotline, and buying Nintendo Power mags; (b) kids are shameless cheaters and hint-consumers. (To this day I can't recall if youthful me ever legitimately beat Doom II, or just IDCLIP-ed all over the fucking place. The distinction didn't seem to matter at the time.) And since one major goal of my current gaming is to enjoy the canonical experiences of the NES generation (after enduring a computers-only childhood), I figure that free chatter *is* the authentic way to go.

Whatever. I figured out the brick wall pattern in Double Dragon after about 6 tries, beat Metroid without a map, figured out all the bosses' weaknesses in Mega Man on the first try through educated guesses, and just figured out how to beat the Act V boss in Ninja Gaiden. I think I can deal with NES puzzles.

[Squire Grooktook]

Alright, after 3 tries I finally figured out how to beat the Act V boss:

Spoiler

Just attack him until he dies and don't attempt to dodge his attacks because they are literally impossible. Sneaky design

Just got to Act VI.

Nice to see you figure it out so fast. The counter-intuitiveness of that fight would probably throw many veterans for a loop, I imagine.

Technically, you can dodge his attacks, and even beat him flawlessly. But it takes so damn long, is so risky, and is so difficult, that there's pretty much no reason to ever do it if you're not going for some sort of no damage clear.

Last year I chugged thru NES games with a fastidious avoidance of hints. It never quite works, though. If you're excited about a game you will want to talk about it, read about it, and soon enough some essential bit of game-knowledge will pop up before you can avert your eyes.

Now I just accept this. I temper my neurotic side by reminding myself that (a) these games were made deliberately obtuse, not only to increase the play-time needed to beat them, but also to get kids talking about them, calling the hotline, and buying Nintendo Power mags.

To be fair, the quality of telegraphing varies quite a bit. Some games, rare admittedly in the arcade genre, are indeed 100% fair on a first try. Most aren't. But there's nothing stopping one from making a game like that, and many exist.

[electricgrave]

Ninja Gaiden's Act VI is where the fun truly begins, get ready for some serious shenanigans. The best advice I can give you is to remember where everything comes from and think a few steps ahead. Oh and last but not least, take a few steps backwards and you'll make some enemies disappear, some re-spawn and some don't come back at all.