OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

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Blair
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by Blair »

Thamiel wrote:Quick question. Is there much of an advantage pairing an OSSC with a VP50 over a HD+? There's a HD+ going locally fairly cheaply, though I don't kind paying more for a VP50 if there's some significant improvements.

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HD+ might not be able to use the line triple and possible future line quadruple modes of the OSSC, but I don't know for sure ( I don't think anyone's tested that theory yet). so you might be limited to the the 480p output of the OSSC, when processing 240p signals.

the advantage of the HD+ over the VP50 is that it seems to have a (mostly) ringfree scaling engine (it doesn't over-sharpen pixels while scaling) although I think 90% of ringing can be defeated with the vp50's picture controls and your own television's un-sharpening and edge enhancement settings, so your mileage may vary).

however, the VP50 has superior deinterlacing capabilities vs the HD+ (or OSSC on its own) and when the OSSC adds its interlaced pass-through option, that will make 480i content look fairly fantastic. (PlayStation 2 games with the vp50's "game mode 2" look mostly indistinguishable from real progressive output while adding very little input lag to the video chain).

also the VP50 doesn't add ringing to interlaced video signals (or if it does it's not very noticeable)

they both have their potential pros and cons.

even if you don't end up using them with the OSSC, those processors are pretty useful on their own. (as most televisions and monitors are still pretty bad at processing non-native resolutions) (if it's not too much of a financial burden, I personally would get both and use them in my video chain, but I don't know what your game/movie processing needs are)

is your main reason for buying an additional processor because you're having compatibility problems with the OSSC?
Thamiel
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by Thamiel »

Main reason for a new processor is MVS compatibility. Right now I'm using an XRGB2 + Gefen VGA to DVI chain. Works great but the lack of zoom controls is a little frustrating.

I was also using a XRGB2 + Optoma HD3000 which I much preferred overall but the HD3000 hates the MVS.

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Blair
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by Blair »

ah, personally I don't have an MVS so I can't speak to its compatibility with either of those processors ( and I'm assuming you don't have an OSSC yet?)

both units should give you pretty good aspect ratio control and nice stretch options.

I don't know how the XRGB2 functions with either DVDO processor (perhaps somebody here could shed some light on that for you) but if you're just using it as a line doubler, and then pairing it with another processor I think either one would probably work fine.

I know that XRGB3's have been used successfully with VP50s, but you have to make sure that it either has the latest firmware on it or you have a way of putting the latest firmware on it to get the lowest input lag possible. (a fantastic 6ms, well under a frame)

so I would probably lean more towards the VP50 (or 50pro if you can find it) if you were going to use your XRGB2 for a while before getting an OSSC (as it way more analog and digital input types then the HD+ and it's a bit more flexible)

both would probably be great, I just don't know how you would connect the XRGB2 into the HD+ ( but you might not care to do that anyway)

(has anyone tested Optoma HD3000 with OSSC?)
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RGB32E
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by RGB32E »

Blair wrote:(has anyone tested Optoma HD3000 with OSSC?)
I might have. :lol: I have to upgrade the FW on my HD3000 so it can output 1080p. The menu system on the HD3000 is just broken and awful! :lol:
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Blair
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by Blair »

interesting, I've heard the HD3000 is really good with progressive signals (and even fairly decent at de-interlacing) it's also got digital input which is a big plus for hooking up to the OSSC.


question, I know that the OSSC can get a little hiccup be with 480i to progressive resolution switches. but how is it with progressive to progressive resolution switches? (like 640×200 to 640x480)
karma_police
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by karma_police »

Any update on the second batch?
RGB0b
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by RGB0b »

Bahn Yuki wrote:The Vizio D 4K series has a lag rating of 13.5ms which is less than a frame. It lacks WCG and HDR which is why I went with the Vizio P series. I am hoping the guy from RetroRGB picks up this set(65" for $900) and tests the OSSC on it. I'm thinking there's a high chance it will support the Line Triple mode, but I'd rather get real confirmation before telling people to go buy that TV.
http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/vizio/d-series-4k-2016
I just bought the Vizio D40u-D1 and it consistently gets 2.5 frames of lag through the OSSC in both linetriple and linedouble modes. It actually gets about 6 frames when using any port except HDMI 5, regardless if "game low latency" is on or off. Also, the scanlines look a bit weird, so the TV probably isn't scaling the image correctly.

Good news that it supports linetriple mode, but I'm absolutely unimpressed with the 2.5 frames of lag (that's the same as my plasma). Also, there are no options to choose analog audio when using an HDMI port, there's no place in the menu for a firmware update and it's not compatible with 240p component video signals.

Does anyone have any other recommendations for a cheap flat-screen that's OSSC linetriple compatible?
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Bahn Yuki
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by Bahn Yuki »

retrorgb wrote:
Bahn Yuki wrote:The Vizio D 4K series has a lag rating of 13.5ms which is less than a frame. It lacks WCG and HDR which is why I went with the Vizio P series. I am hoping the guy from RetroRGB picks up this set(65" for $900) and tests the OSSC on it. I'm thinking there's a high chance it will support the Line Triple mode, but I'd rather get real confirmation before telling people to go buy that TV.
http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/vizio/d-series-4k-2016
I just bought the Vizio D40u-D1 and it consistently gets 2.5 frames of lag through the OSSC in both linetriple and linedouble modes. It actually gets about 6 frames when using any port except HDMI 5, regardless if "game low latency" is on or off. Also, the scanlines look a bit weird, so the TV probably isn't scaling the image correctly.

Good news that it supports linetriple mode, but I'm absolutely unimpressed with the 2.5 frames of lag (that's the same as my plasma). Also, there are no options to choose analog audio when using an HDMI port, there's no place in the menu for a firmware update and it's not compatible with 240p component video signals.

Does anyone have any other recommendations for a cheap flat-screen that's OSSC linetriple compatible?
You're getting over 30ms of lag on your set? That's worse than the D series 1080p screen. So with HDMI 5, Game picture mode and Game Latency on you still have that much lag? Here are settings that might help you out.

http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/vizio/ ... 6/settings
Displays I currently own:
LG 83C1(OLED),LG 77C2(OLED), LG 42C2(OLED),TCL 75R635(MiniLED),Apple Studio Monitor 21(PCCRT),SONY 34XBR960x2(HDCRT)
SONY 32XBR250,Samsung UBJ590(LED),Panasonic P50VT20(Plasma),JVC NZ8
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Blair
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by Blair »

retrorgb, I thought you had the VP50 to help you with the line triple mode of the OSSC?

(wouldn't finding a TV that has the lowest input lag and best video quality possible (for your budget) be higher on the list than OSSC compatibility? especially if you already have something that fixes the compatibility issue?)

when you say the scanlines look weird, do you have your picture mode set properly? (no underscan or overscan?) (no zoom settings etc.)
RGB0b
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by RGB0b »

Bahn Yuki wrote:You're getting over 30ms of lag on your set? That's worse than the D series 1080p screen. So with HDMI 5, Game picture mode and Game Latency on you still have that much lag? Here are settings that might help you out.

http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/vizio/ ... 6/settings
Already copied those and turned off all extra processing. Made no difference. The only thing that made a difference was the "game latency" and HDMI 5.
Blair wrote:retrorgb, I thought you had the VP50 to help you with the line triple mode of the OSSC?
I do, but I'm testing these to post on my site, as a recommendation to other people looking to buy a new TV. I'll also be selling the VP50 soon if anyone's interested....I bought it to test, not to use.
Blair wrote:(wouldn't finding a TV that has the lowest input lag and best video quality possible (for your budget) be higher on the list than OSSC compatibility? especially if you already have something that fixes the compatibility issue?)
It would be awesome if we can find TV's that do both. I'd love to be able to post a list of new TV's (ranging from cheap to high-end) that people who are looking for a "Gaming TV" can buy, knowing it's low-latency and OSSC compatible. Alternatively, if there was a low-lag TV that didn't support the OSSC linetriple mode, a cheap solution to make it compatible would be great (I believe Blizz uses a monitor that's less then 1 frame of lag, but not a large TV).

BTW, did anyone ever try the iScan Micro?

As an FYI, I purchased this HDMI to component adapter and it made no difference on my plasma that's incompatible with linetriple mode: http://www.ebay.com/itm/322112913967 Linetriple didn't work at all and linedouble created interference on top (which is exactly what my TV did when I used a Kramer FC-14 with my Dreamcast...the FC-14 worked with other consoles, just not the DC. Maybe the issue is my TV???):
Image
Blair wrote:when you say the scanlines look weird, do you have your picture mode set properly? (no underscan or overscan?) (no zoom settings etc.)
The TV's settings are extremely limited in game mode, so there's no real choices. The scanlines look too close together, like the image is being compressed vertically. I'm sorry, I didn't snap a picture...I'll try to get one before the weekend is over.

As an FYI, in comparison, I tested the OSSC on a Sony x80c 65 inch 4K TV and Scanlines looked really close to the Sony PVM it was sitting next to. Total lag was 2 - 2.5 frames as well though...wish it was less. Please excuse the iPhone-picture comparison...I didn't expect to use the pics for anything, so I didn't use a DSLR for these:
Image
Last edited by RGB0b on Thu Jul 21, 2016 6:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
ZellSF
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by ZellSF »

retrorgb wrote: As an FYI, I purchased this HDMI to component adapter and it made no difference on my plasma that's incompatible with linetriple mode: http://www.ebay.com/itm/322112913967 Linetriple didn't work at all and linedouble created interference on top (which is exactly what my TV did when I used a Kramer FC-14 with my Dreamcast...the FC-14 worked with other consoles, just not the DC. Maybe the issue is my TV???):
Image
I've ordered this one:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/HDMI-to-RGB-Com ... 2474410772
But shipping from China will take forever. I tried a cheap VGA adapter from work, which actually gave me an image in linetriple on my Panasonic. Just too jittery to be playable.

Probably just going to run everything through my VP50 at all times though and likely won't ever use it even if I get it working. I just want a low latency option in addition to a more image quality focused one. I really can't tell the 8ms lag difference the VP50 does though.
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by Yohanov »

Random question, sorry if it's dumb :
Would one be able to enjoy the scanline generator from the OSSC on a vga crt from a windows PC source, using the OSSC vga imput as a passthrough ?

I got a steam game with a native res of 480p, which would benefit a lot from scanlines (my crt natural scanlines are too thin) so if the OSSC would do the job I wouldn't need to buy a proper scanline generator.

Thanks
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by BuckoA51 »

It should work just fine for this, yes. > 480p the scanlines won't really line up right, but 480p it should work great.
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by ZellSF »

Keep in mind that new video cards are starting to not support VGA, so you might eventually have to buy a DVI to VGA converter.

There's also software workarounds for getting scanlines on PC games. It's a bit more complicated (and doesn't work for all games), but depending on your setup might be a better solution.
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by Fudoh »

Keep in mind that new video cards are starting to not support VGA
I've read that new graphics cards are using DVI-D instead of DVI-I, but did they ditch analogue RGBHV from the Displayport connectors as well ?
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by marqs »

karma_police wrote:Any update on the second batch?
The boards are ready and orders are currenly processed.
Yohanov wrote:Random question, sorry if it's dumb :
Would one be able to enjoy the scanline generator from the OSSC on a vga crt from a windows PC source, using the OSSC vga imput as a passthrough ?

I got a steam game with a native res of 480p, which would benefit a lot from scanlines (my crt natural scanlines are too thin) so if the OSSC would do the job I wouldn't need to buy a proper scanline generator.
It's possible, but you should then use linedouble for 640x480 (unless the game itself is linedoubled 240p) so that there are duplicated scanlines of which each other can be darkened.
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by NormalFish »

marqs wrote:The boards are ready and orders are currenly processed.
Do you have a guess as to when orders will be caught up? I'm kind of inclined to wait it out until some of the kinks are worked out, but I'm curious as to when I'll see the OSSC in the videogameperfection (or other) storefront.
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by marqs »

Fw 0.71 is now out and has the following new features:

* Interlace passthrough
* 480p/576p lineX2
* Alternating scanlines

480p/576p lineX2 won't be compatible with many TVs though. Also, interlace passthrough and alternating scanlines are currently not supported for VGA input in RGBHV/RGBS mode.
Last edited by marqs on Sat Jul 09, 2016 9:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by akumajo »

marqs wrote:Fw 0.71 is now out and has the following new features:

* Interlace passthrough
* 480p/576p lineX2
* Alternating scanlines

480p/576p lineX2 won't be compatible with many TVs though.
amazing ! but 403 Forbidden :)

you fixed the bug if scanline ID is set to ODD?
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by marqs »

akumajo wrote:amazing ! but 403 Forbidden :)

you fixed the bug if scanline ID is set to ODD?
Yes that one is fixed as well. Updated file permissions so it should download fine now.
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by Thomago »

So, with 480p/576p lineX2 implemented and 240p/288p lineX4 considered/planned... what's with 480i/576i lineX2? Do the aforementioned modes entail that or is it something completely different?
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by BuckoA51 »

Can I remind everyone OSSC has it's own forum now?? :mrgreen:

https://www.videogameperfection.com/forums/forum/ossc/
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by Fudoh »

Can I remind everyone OSSC has it's own forum now??
I think the dedicated boards are great for stickies of all kinds. Compatibility lists, download links and whatnot, but I think the general discussion should remain here. After all this board here has become THE go-to adress for everything processing related.
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by ZellSF »

Fudoh wrote:
Keep in mind that new video cards are starting to not support VGA
I've read that new graphics cards are using DVI-D instead of DVI-I, but did they ditch analogue RGBHV from the Displayport connectors as well ?
Uh, I can't find anything that says RGBHV over DisplayPort was ever a thing and Wikipedia says you need active adapters. I would expect that to get phased out even faster than DVI-I where people expect passive adapters to work.
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by BuckoA51 »

I think the dedicated boards are great for stickies of all kinds. Compatibility lists, download links and whatnot, but I think the general discussion should remain here. After all this board here has become THE go-to adress for everything processing related.
Yeah because it's so easy sifting through a single thread of 60+ pages :|
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by NormalFish »

BuckoA51 wrote:Yeah because it's so easy sifting through a single thread of 60+ pages :|
Dunno, the dedicated forum is certainly a good option, but given that a lot of discussion in this thread is relevant to discussion about the framemeister or other scalers that are discussed outside of this thread in broader context on this board, I see little reason to close up shop in this thread specifically.

They can certainly coexist.
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by BuckoA51 »

and look what happened with the Framemeister thread, people asked "how do I connect my Dreamcast" at least every other week at one time :roll:
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by Guspaz »

ZellSF wrote:
Fudoh wrote:
Keep in mind that new video cards are starting to not support VGA
I've read that new graphics cards are using DVI-D instead of DVI-I, but did they ditch analogue RGBHV from the Displayport connectors as well ?
Uh, I can't find anything that says RGBHV over DisplayPort was ever a thing and Wikipedia says you need active adapters. I would expect that to get phased out even faster than DVI-I where people expect passive adapters to work.
VGA support via passive adapters is part of the DisplayPort spec (look for the DP++ logo). The adapters cost around $10.

VGA support via active adapters cost a bit more, but are only $15. They're not going anywhere. I believe it's also standardized as part of the spec, but I'm not sure.

VGA support in modern videocards is largely useless, since active adapters are standardized and are so cheap. The only limitation is that they max out at 1080p60, but normal users don't need more than 1080p60 on VGA.
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Blair
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by Blair »

marqs wrote:Fw 0.71 is now out and has the following new features:

* Interlace passthrough
* 480p/576p lineX2
* Alternating scanlines

480p/576p lineX2 won't be compatible with many TVs though. Also, interlace passthrough and alternating scanlines are currently not supported for VGA input in RGBHV/RGBS mode.
excellent! just to be sure 480p/576p lineX2 will function on the VGA port and work with something like the Dreamcast, correct? (will the resolution toggle/detection for Dreamcast need to be adjusted when using line double?)

(and it would work for an original Xbox outputting component 480p?)
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by karma_police »

So have emails been sent for the new boards? I'm getting the newsletter, but just want to make sure I did not miss the email to order the unit.
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