Company making indistinguishable reprints of rarities eg REZ

[Ceph]

As you may or may not know, gamequestdirect.com is reprinting rare games for all sorts of different systems (even for Tubo Duo; they just reprinted Exile and Cosmic Fantasy 2).

While I like the idea of making rare games available to a wider audience, I think it is outrageous that they do not mark their reprints as such.

Some of their business practices are highly dubious, too: Whenever they reprint a rare game, they first sell sealed copies on ebay at high prices (without mentioning them being reprints, of course) to make as much money as possible before they start flooding the market. Finally, they sell leftover stock to Gamestop, who open the sealed reprints and sell them as USED for more money.

I feel it is time for one of you American collectors to sue Gamequest Direct for greatly reducing the value of your collection and thereby force them to mark their reprints as reprints.

Just imagine some company would start reprinting rare stamps or coins and make them indistinguishable form the originals; I don't think collectors would stand for that.

Again, it is nice to make rare games available legally, but this just isn't right and needs to be stopped right now.

EDIT: changed the topic to make it easier understandable.

[Thunder Force]

Hmm, this link clarifies some of the process being followed. Calling for the company to be sued is pretty extreme.

Game Quest Direct would have to front all of the money. They paid a lofty sum and took a heavy risk. Each reprint costs Game Quest Direct nearly $100,000 to do. But instead of getting a low profit margin that retail stores struggle with, Game Quest Direct would get 50% of the profits on each sale. The gamble paid off and GQD made a sizeable profit.

However, hardcore video game collectors were irked. Reprints could not be distinguished from the originals, which brought the value down of their collection. That $85 copy of Persona 2 purchased used, dropped nearly 50% in price. Speculators who snagged up copies of Disgaea couldn’t profit from eBay sales. Especially proud collectors weren’t perturbed by the economics, but more that they lost exclusivity of being the only one on the block with these a rare game.

[icycalm]

Selling the games on eBay before they announce they are reprints should be punishable by death.

Apart from that, I am all for reprints. Fuck collectors (even if I am a collector myself). The point is to have that copy of Radiant Silvergun in your home in perfect condition. I don't care if only 5 other people have it or if every kid on the block has it. It's all a miscalculation on the part of the original publisher. They thought the demand would be less than it was, and they printed less copies. And the fans have to literally pay for the publisher's mistake and spend a fortune to find the game later.

It just isn't right.

[Ceph]

I have nothing at all aginst reprints like "Best of" or Platinum editions. It's good if more people can play a good game (like Radiant Silvergun).

But they reprint even "limited editions", and you have NO WAY OF TELLING THEM APART. For instance: http://www.gamequestdirect.com/010086630008.html

Not so limited anymore, eh? This is bordering on fraud.

My point is that not putting some sort of "reprint" mark on reprionts is simply not ok.

If they are allowed to do that, then what's the point of spending more money on the limited edition of any game when it first comes out?

[Turrican]

Wait - I doubt Sega gave them the ok to reprint Rez, because they would have done themselves if there was demand - so this must be fraud. No matter how much it costed or how risky it is.

They're reprinting Duo games? Yeah right, who allowed them to? Do they legally own copyright? What's the difference between one of their "reprints" and the Sapphire clone?

The whole thing's shady...

[Kron]

I think its in very bad taste that they list the retail price of Rez on their own website as comparable to what the current ebay inflated price is.

To be totally honest people deserve this kind of rubbish while they continue to stagnate the market and let it be determined by a single site. I personally don't care about the reprints or the inflated prices because I'm not stupid enough to look at and use ebay and let it govern the market.

The only good consequence is that they can't reproduce Cube and DC games as they are on proprietory media.

[Turrican]

Here's a nice idea - let's email Sega and let them know some compassionate guy is reprinting their Rez for the sake of humankind.

[Stormwatch]

Wait - I doubt Sega gave them the ok to reprint Rez, because they would have done themselves if there was demand - so this must be fraud.

Think about it this way. Yes, Sega has the facilities to make more copies of Rez. But to do it would mean not to use such facilities to make more copies of other games.

[maxlords]

LOL. They're not frauds. They're not fakes, guys. GQD is buying old backstock from companies and then selling it again. These companies still have stock of games like Rez, Gitaroo Man, Exile, Cosmic Fantasy, and others lying around. I know for a fact that Atlus and Working Designs both sold GQD a huge chunk of backstock that they had sitting around. They've gotten stuff from other companies too....I don't know how the hell they made the connections they have, but they've got ins with a BUNCH of software companies and they're buying all this stuff legitimately. The Rhapsodies and Persona 2s weren't reprinted. They were original print run games that weren't ever sealed originally, they just sat in a warehouse. Then when GQD bought em, they had em sealed and didn't have the white stickers printed for em because Sony doesn't do that now. Everything they sell is legit. IT's weird, but they've got serious hookups and have bought out a huge percentage of console soft publishers stock!

[Turrican]

Think about it this way. Yes, Sega has the facilities to make more copies of Rez. But to do it would mean not to use such facilities to make more copies of other games.

Think about it this way - I'm completely for reprints. But the good reprint is the one that shows it. Recently Radiant Silvergun soundtrack has been reprinted - which is awesome, so many more will be able to listen to it. And you can tell the orginal from the reprint by looking at their serial code. Same with the upcoming Ico pal reprint, I guess.

If they're doing all this with the rights' owners ok, then it's legal. But it's still not a good service until they put their GQD logo somewhere on the back cover. Simple as that.
If they're going to do legit business with these reprints, they have to show people what they're selling.

[Turrican]

LOL. They're not frauds. They're not fakes, guys. GQD is buying old backstock from companies and then selling it again. These companies still have stock of games like Rez, Gitaroo Man, Exile, Cosmic Fantasy, and others lying around. I know for a fact that Atlus and Working Designs both sold GQD a huge chunk of backstock that they had sitting around. They've gotten stuff from other companies too....I don't know how the hell they made the connections they have, but they've got ins with a BUNCH of software companies and they're buying all this stuff legitimately. The Rhapsodies and Persona 2s weren't reprinted. They were original print run games that weren't ever sealed originally, they just sat in a warehouse. Then when GQD bought em, they had em sealed and didn't have the white stickers printed for em because Sony doesn't do that now. Everything they sell is legit. IT's weird, but they've got serious hookups and have bought out a huge percentage of console soft publishers stock!

If they're backstocks, It's fine. If they're burning cds and actually reprinting them, they have to put their own logo somewhere.

[shmup-o]

LOL. They're not frauds. They're not fakes, guys. GQD is buying old backstock from companies and then selling it again. These companies still have stock of games like Rez, Gitaroo Man, Exile, Cosmic Fantasy, and others lying around. I know for a fact that Atlus and Working Designs both sold GQD a huge chunk of backstock that they had sitting around. They've gotten stuff from other companies too....I don't know how the hell they made the connections they have, but they've got ins with a BUNCH of software companies and they're buying all this stuff legitimately. The Rhapsodies and Persona 2s weren't reprinted. They were original print run games that weren't ever sealed originally, they just sat in a warehouse. Then when GQD bought em, they had em sealed and didn't have the white stickers printed for em because Sony doesn't do that now. Everything they sell is legit. IT's weird, but they've got serious hookups and have bought out a huge percentage of console soft publishers stock!

If they're backstocks, It's fine. If they're burning cds and actually reprinting them, they have to put their own logo somewhere.

Ok. Everyone go back up to Thunderforce's post and read the article that he linked to.

Now, in a nutshell, here is how they are reprinting these games.

A) Go to Capcom and ask to reprint RE2 and 3 for the GC.
B) GQD will then pay for ALL costs associated with the reprint.
C) GQD will split profits with Capcom 50/50.
D) They sell stuff on their website and Ebay, then sell to other retailers.

They went to Capcom, Sega, and Atlus. They bought the rights to all of WD's games. The Cosmic Fantasy 2 and Exile copies are legit, WD had those games still. But they will reprint Lunar and Lunar 2, it's only a matter of time.

I like that they are making eveything accessible, but to have carbon copies floating around is not right.

[benstylus]

Honestly, I don't see a problem with it at all, INCLUDING selling on ebay first. More people want to play these games, and this company is offering them a way to legally do so.

If you were one of the people who bought Rez when it was at $100, and you felt you got a fair deal for the game, what does it matter if the price goes down later? You paid a price that you were happy with at the time, and you're only angry and disappointed in retrospect because the "value" went down, and had you waited a year and a half, you could have gotten the same deal.

And if you felt you were getting raped by the outrageous price, it's your fault for buying it that high in the first place.

Let's stick with Rez for a moment here. Let's say that Sega sold all the games within 6 months and then reprinted another batch. Everyone would be cheering. But since it's been quite a long time since the first printing of Rez, and there has been somewhat of an acceptance that the game is rare and pricy, you're upset that it's getting a re-release? If anything, you should be telling all your friends who never got the chance that they should run to the store and buy it. What's the difference between that and what's happening now except the timing?

In all seriousness, video games aren't meant to be an investment vehicle - they're meant to be entertainment. If you want investments, try stocks or mutual funds.

And for the record, I would prefer that all reprints be identical, and not be marred by an ugly "GREATEST HITS" or "PLAYERS CHOICE" stripe. The publishers don't owe it to you to make sure the value of the game you bought never goes down. The owe it to their shareholders to make money - and this GDQ company seems to be giving them a pretty sweet deal. Unless it's a numbered limited edition (the box says you got #427 out of 5000 or something) where the publisher has assured you that no more of that particular edition will be made, it should be fair game.

[it290]

Exactly. Even if you are a collector, you must realise that collecting games is a hobby, not an investment. The Ebay thing may be a little sleazy, but these guys have to put up a substantial investment beforehand, so it's only fair that they would try to recoup their losses.

The comparison to stamps and coins is totally flawed -- both of those items are produced by the government and are regulated by law. Someone else producing them would be either counterfeiting or mail fraud. If the government wanted to start producing some rare stamp or vintage coin, there would be nothing stopping them from doing so, just as there is nothing illegal about a company acquiring the rights to do a reprint.

[Texhnolyze]

Bring on the old stock and reprints. I don't have an issue with them. I paid $110 for Radiant Silvergun and frankly I don't care if they re-issued reprints for $50 or less.

[Ceph]

The comparison to stamps and coins is totally flawed -- both of those items are produced by the government and are regulated by law.

I'm sure the government of the Roman Empire would severely punish you if you did reprint Roman coins.

Anyway, I think a few friendly letters to the original publishers of the games in question might convince them not to allow GQD to produce anymore reprints without marking them as such.

[Turrican]

And for the record, I would prefer that all reprints be identical, and not be marred by an ugly "GREATEST HITS" or "PLAYERS CHOICE" stripe.

This is bollocks - the Radiant Silvergun OST reprint looks exactly the same as the first one, but the serial code is of course different. So don't come up with "ugly stripes" excuses. changing a four digit number doesn't ruin anything.

They're making money by cloning of out of prints games and selling them for the same high prices as they actually are found on ebay - and yet you don't see any problem in this?

[Turrican]

Bring on the old stock and reprints. I don't have an issue with them. I paid $110 for Radiant Silvergun and frankly I don't care if they re-issued reprints for $50 or less.

No one is arguing that, really. If all their products would be labeled "GQD" and sold for 10 USD each, I'd be their happiest customer.

[it290]

I'm sure the government of the Roman Empire would severely punish you if you did reprint Roman coins.

Irrelevant. Using the Roman example, producing reproductions and labelling them as such would be legal, selling them as authentic antiques would not be. In the case of these reprinted games, they have the legal right to mark them however they like. You might consider it immoral, but that doesn't mean there's any grounds for a lawsuit.

[Texhnolyze]

They're making money by cloning of out of prints games and selling them for the same high prices as they actually are found on ebay - and yet you don't see any problem in this?

It's called capitalism. In some cases they purchased old stock. In other cases they made reprints with permission of the company. The reprints cost a minimum of a $100,000 investment. What's the problem? And the only people paying high prices are uninformed buyers. The prices are marked down considerably if you wait. You can buy PS2 REZ for $45 on their website or eBay.

[Turrican]

Irrelevant. In the case of these reprinted games, they have the legal right to mark them however they like. You might consider it immoral, but that doesn't mean there's any grounds for a lawsuit.

It's debatable to see if they indeed have it. Do these new burned cds pass the SCEI tests? If they are licensed SCEA products, how is that they don't get a new SLPS-???? code?

[SAM]

I feel it is time for one of you American collectors to sue Gamequest Direct for greatly reducing the value of your collection and thereby force them to mark their reprints as reprints.

Just imagine some company would start reprinting rare stamps or coins and make them indistinguishable form the originals; I don't think collectors would stand for that.

Well, games are mean to be play, not collectable.

The cover art might look the same, but the item number and the barcode is different for different batch.

I just wish someone make a deal with Cave to print 10,000 more DDP DOJ Black Label PCBs.

[it290]

Turrican, that is a good point, but perhaps that is part of the reason they're being issued as if they were still part of the first print run -- presumably Sega (or whoever) has the rights from Sony to publish as many copies of US Rez as they like, but that might not be the case if it were a 'second edition' or whatever.

[Turrican]

Turrican, that is a good point, but perhaps that is part of the reason they're being issued as if they were still part of the first print run -- presumably Sega (or whoever) has the rights from Sony to publish as many copies of US Rez as they like, but that might not be the case if it were a 'second edition' or whatever.

Then you'd agree with me that even if legal, the whole things still feels shady. However, I guess it can't be helped. Like Texhnolyze said, it's capitalism: make false claims in advertisement and fuck poor uninformed idiots. I always knew it was like that.

[SAM]

And for the record, I would prefer that all reprints be identical, and not be marred by an ugly "GREATEST HITS" or "PLAYERS CHOICE" stripe. The publishers don't owe it to you to make sure the value of the game you bought never goes down. The owe it to their shareholders to make money - and this GDQ company seems to be giving them a pretty sweet deal. Unless it's a numbered limited edition (the box says you got #427 out of 5000 or something) where the publisher has assured you that no more of that particular edition will be made, it should be fair game.

Good point, actually printing of "GREATEST HITS" or "PLAYERS CHOICE" version drive down the value of the orginal version. Because people buy the game to play, and "GREATEST HITS" or "PLAYERS CHOICE" play the same. The second hand price of "GREATEST HITS" or "PLAYERS CHOICE" version is not much different from the orginal.

Well unless it is a LE version with sound track.

[SAM]

The comparison to stamps and coins is totally flawed -- both of those items are produced by the government and are regulated by law.

I'm sure the government of the Roman Empire would severely punish you if you did reprint Roman coins.

Anyway, I think a few friendly letters to the original publishers of the games in question might convince them not to allow GQD to produce anymore reprints without marking them as such.

By the way, do you know the reprint of Japanese DC games (BEST version) is just marked by a white stacker on the packing. Seller used to just tear off the stacker and sold them as orginal batch...

[Ceph]

Calling for the company to be sued is pretty extreme.

In the US, you can sue McDonalds over selling their coffee too hot. I'm pretty sure you can sue a company for making indistinguishable reprints (and selling them as original prints without saying so) which in turn cause your genuine original prints to decrease in value.

Just imagine you are a professional seller dealing with rare out-of-print games. GQD's reprints will no doubt cause you to lose a lot of money you invested- I think you'd have a legitimate claim against them.

[it290]

That McDonald's case gets cited all the time, but it's actually not as ridiculous as it sounds. That particular McDonald's was intentionally heating their coffee to an extreme temperature so that customers wouldn't realize how crappy and stale it was. It wasn't just 'some lady spilled it on her lap'.

In the case of a dealer of used games, they have no contract with anyone to ensure that the price or number of copies available remains fixed. Buying a bunch of games for resale and hoping they will remain valuable is a business risk, and risky business too. As you said, it's an investment -- a dubious one -- and no investor can be assured 100% that they're not going to lose money. If there were a contract involved, then yes, but there isn't one.

Basically, I can understand the argument that it's shady to be reprinting these things identically to the original and then selling them at an inflated price on ebay, and I agree. But I'm glad that more copies of good games are now available on the market, and with the amount of upfront investment requried it's not surprising that this company wants to try and sell some on ebay and make a little extra cash. If you're a collector, fine, collect games for the enjoyment of doing so. But it's silly to buy games and pretend like that's putting money in the bank, and if you've 'lost' money because of these reprints, that's your own fault.

[Turrican]

But I'm glad that more copies of good games are now available on the market, and with the amount of upfront investment requried it's not surprising that this company wants to try and sell some on ebay and make a little extra cash. If you're a collector, fine, collect games for the enjoyment of doing so. But it's silly to buy games and pretend like that's putting money in the bank, and if you've 'lost' money because of these reprints, that's your own fault.

Sure! Actually, the idea to have some collector pissed off by this is one of the positive aspects of the whole affair

[LSU]

I think it's great that more people will get to experience 'rarer' games like Rez. I would also be really happy if it eventually drives down some crazy ebay/'collector' prices.

However they could at least do everyone the courtesy of using a different barcode/serial number for a reprint, just so everyone knows exactly what they're getting. Books and music media almost always make some kind of attempt to do this, so why should games be any different?