Wondering about Chinese "tropes"

Post by **Ghegs** » Sun Jun 26, 2016 5:57 pm

Obiwanshinobi · Post by **Obiwanshinobi** » Sun Jun 26, 2016 6:17 pm

Ghegs wrote:(Hundred Years' War, The Three Musketeers...)

Five Easy Samurai...

MintyTheCat · Post by **MintyTheCat** » Sun Jun 26, 2016 7:00 pm

I know numerology is a thing in Chinese culture, with some numbers being considered more lucky than others, but that doesn't feel like it could explain the whole thing.

Indeed numerology and connotations play a larger part in Chinese and Japanese culture - you will never find floor number four for example due to the association with death.
Numerology is often a result of highly complex and sustained cultural development and Japanese certainly lends itself to all manner of 'reading'.
It is also worth pointing out that the use of numerology allows the artist to relate things by reference and thereby grants the subject more weight.
If you look for example at the I-Ching again it relies greatly on numerology and symbolism and that most regard it as a classic for its collative strength

Xyga · Post by **Xyga** » Sun Jun 26, 2016 8:22 pm

Ghegs wrote:but it seems that the number is almost forcibly entered into the name, when the subject matter could be described just as well without it. So I wonder if there's some cultural significance about it?

So many it's overwhelming, history, tales, philosophy, politics, cooking, whatever... the numbers are often used as homonyms for play on words or to highlight, emphasize, etc.
If you dig into chengyu for instance (idioms typically in the form of four characters) you'll find the numbers often don't actually quantify things. The problem is that if you want to know the real meaning almost every you'll have to read about the backround, it will lead you to other things and step by step you'll get the reasons behind their use, but it's endless.
Of course it is much easier when you already know some chinese, but there are good translated dictionnaries, collections, hobby websites and blogs in all languages you can use.

Skykid · Post by **Skykid** » Sun Jun 26, 2016 8:32 pm

Chinese person sitting next to me says there's no particular reason for the numerical additions to the titles except that historically and presently China tends to categorise its history in a directory style, and the topic titles reflect this by using numbers to describe an event. In many cases the translation isn't actually literal, for example if something says "Hundred Armed Soldiers", it is usually not referring to an exact hundred, but often hundreds.

In the case of the "Way of the Five Pecks of Rice" is actually talking about many people visiting a province to receive a small ration of rice (or similar, I'm doing my best to translate) but it's not necessarily about 'five' of anything. It's a historical point categorised using a number and a topic.

They use categorising like this today for things like Hospitals and Schools. For example: Shanghai no.1 People's Hospital, or Hangzhou no.12 Middle School.

In my experience this is because Chinese language doesn't have a lot of 'name' words for things. In English we name everything down to the last detail, but in Chinese they tend to take existing words and combine them to create new ones.

For example computer is literally "electric brain" in Chinese, or tap is "Water Dragon Head"!

This may explain why they use numbers to form historic entries or similar rather than having actual names for the events instead.

That's the best I can do, hope it explains a little!

rancor · Post by **rancor** » Sun Jun 26, 2016 10:18 pm

MintyTheCat wrote: you will never find floor number four for example due to the association with death.

This stunning level of ignorance made my morning. Do go on. Tell us more about this mysterious "Japan".

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Mon Jun 27, 2016 1:13 am

Of course take this with at least five grains of salt, but passing on what I've gathered from my own readings of Chinese history:

Skykid wrote:if something says "Hundred Armed Soldiers", it is usually not referring to an exact hundred, but often hundreds.

Thousands can also refer to hundreds. Chinese history often thought to have a tendency to epic exaggeration, but sometimes archaeology substantially backs up these assertions.

In truth it's mostly a sensible way to deal with the ambiguities of history and counting: Despite the great reputation of the Chinese for flowery and sometimes punning writing, it's often diligent and workmanlike.

What is more interesting to me is that history was such a central part of the bureaucracy, dealing with a vast number of often wholly separate empires, so that the nation's history and indeed Chinese identity is often assumed much simpler than it really is. Many official writings can flip between recognizing different dynasties as "official" even when they were in different parts of the country and even hostile - sometimes what is named and considered noteworthy is just there because it fills an available slot in the accounting of years. Of course, many of these things are true when reading the ancient Greek or Roman histories as well, but what seems different to me is the innovation of presenting geographically and culturally diverse areas as part of an unbroken lineage. That's not necessarily entirely bad as it might have helped break up the pattern of warring states going into their neighbors and committing massacres for unchallenged supremacy.

"No number 4" seems to me about as truthful as "no number 13" for Western countries, maybe less. After all, the "First Emperor" had no problems associating his rule with the color black and the number six. People have surely made a big deal in the years since about how strict and obsessive he was, but was he really that bad a ruler by the standards of the time? That's not clear. And reducing the "Hundred Schools of Thought" may have been considered a reform if not for the typically jealous and annoyed academics who wrote that history.

MintyTheCat · Post by **MintyTheCat** » Wed Jun 29, 2016 8:51 am

rancor wrote:
MintyTheCat wrote: you will never find floor number four for example due to the association with death.
This stunning level of ignorance made my morning. Do go on. Tell us more about this mysterious "Japan".

How often do you hear 'shi' instead of 'yon' for the number four? Shinda for death.

Go on, Jeff, let's have your take on the white/death association within Japanese culture.
I have always been led to believe four was akin to our "13" in the West for a handful of Asian cultures.

Edit: and there we have it:

"There are several unlucky numbers in Japanese. Traditionally, 4 is unlucky because it is sometimes pronounced shi, which is the word for death.[5] Sometimes levels or rooms with 4 don't exist in hospitals or hotels.[citation needed] Particularly in the maternity section of a hospital, the room number 43 is avoided because it can literally mean "still birth".[citation needed] When giving gifts such as plates, they are normally in sets of three or five, never four.["

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_superstitions

Thank you for that, Jeff - you 'made my day'.... when are you going to stop these cheap little swipes at me? Sure, I disagree with you on guns in the USA but hell, don't hold that against me for ever - move on - we will not agree on everything and we should never have to.

LEGENOARYNINLIA · Post by **LEGENOARYNINLIA** » Wed Jun 29, 2016 9:20 am

MintyTheCat wrote: Indeed numerology and connotations play a larger part in Chinese and Japanese culture - you will never find floor number four for example due to the association with death.

"There are several unlucky numbers in Japanese. Traditionally, 4 is unlucky because it is sometimes pronounced shi, which is the word for death.[5] Sometimes levels or rooms with 4 don't exist in hospitals or hotels.[citation needed] Particularly in the maternity section of a hospital, the room number 43 is avoided because it can literally mean "still birth".[citation needed] When giving gifts such as plates, they are normally in sets of three or five, never four.["

You have a problem.

MintyTheCat · Post by **MintyTheCat** » Wed Jun 29, 2016 11:16 am

LEGENOARYNINLIA wrote:
MintyTheCat wrote: Indeed numerology and connotations play a larger part in Chinese and Japanese culture - you will never find floor number four for example due to the association with death.

"There are several unlucky numbers in Japanese. Traditionally, 4 is unlucky because it is sometimes pronounced shi, which is the word for death.[5] Sometimes levels or rooms with 4 don't exist in hospitals or hotels.[citation needed] Particularly in the maternity section of a hospital, the room number 43 is avoided because it can literally mean "still birth".[citation needed] When giving gifts such as plates, they are normally in sets of three or five, never four.["
You have a problem.

I most certainly do. Would you believe I spent my formative years surrounded by Mathematics? Does it show at all?

But back on topic: you understand the association with the number 4 and death right and why the word "yon" is used instead of "shi"?

LEGENOARYNINLIA · Post by **LEGENOARYNINLIA** » Wed Jun 29, 2016 11:44 am

Initially you said "..you will never find a floor number four.." but now you are talking about the different implifications of "shi" and "yon" which isn't the same thing.

MintyTheCat · Post by **MintyTheCat** » Wed Jun 29, 2016 1:26 pm

LEGENOARYNINLIA wrote:Initially you said "..you will never find a floor number four.." but now you are talking about the different implifications of "shi" and "yon" which isn't the same thing.

I think I highlighted that there is a distinction to the number four - 'the object' if you like and the references to it: 'yon' and 'shi' with only 'shi' having the reference to 'death'. So taking that in Japanese both those interpretations of that sentence are logically true but not so in English. I think you have picked up the literal sense that "there is no floor #4 to be found in Japan" - which is never true if any given structure in Japan has >3 floors - the 3+1th floor would ALWAYS be #4 right - I think we can grasp that concept - am I right?

Object or 'concept' would be '4' with references to that concept or object being 'vier', 'four', 'shi', 'yon', etc.

Would you like to split hairs further or does that sufficiently satisfy your interest?

Xyga · Post by **Xyga** » Wed Jun 29, 2016 1:27 pm

When I lived in China my mobile number had three 8 in it ('bā' is associated with luck/prosperity) the day before leaving I was told I've missed the opportunity to resell it for a nice sum.

Skykid · Post by **Skykid** » Wed Jun 29, 2016 1:33 pm

Xyga wrote:When I lived in China my mobile number had three 8 in it ('bā' is associated with luck/prosperity) the day before leaving I was told I've missed the opportunity to resell it for a nice sum.

Mine's got three 8s now. Seriously, people won't shut up about it.

NTSC-J · Post by **NTSC-J** » Wed Jun 29, 2016 1:58 pm

MintyTheCat wrote:
LEGENOARYNINLIA wrote:Initially you said "..you will never find a floor number four.." but now you are talking about the different implifications of "shi" and "yon" which isn't the same thing.
I think I highlighted that there is a distinction to the number four - 'the object' if you like and the references to it: 'yon' and 'shi' with only 'shi' having the reference to 'death'. So taking that in Japanese both those interpretations of that sentence are logically true but not so in English. I think you have picked up the literal sense that "there is no floor #4 to be found in Japan" - which is never true if any given structure in Japan has >3 floors - the 3+1th floor would ALWAYS be #4 right - I think we can grasp that concept - am I right?

Object or 'concept' would be '4' with references to that concept or object being 'vier', 'four', 'shi', 'yon', etc.

Would you like to split hairs further or does that sufficiently satisfy your interest?

lol

You said "you will never find a floor number four". Not even remotely true and not in the way you're talking about with there just technically being a fourth floor; nearly every building with a fourth floor has a big fat 4 on it. I was on the fourth floor of a building an hour ago marked 4. My old apartment was on the fourth floor with a 4 on the elevator. The only places where they usually are avoided are in hospitals and funeral homes.

OdiousTrident · Post by **OdiousTrident** » Wed Jun 29, 2016 2:22 pm

I can't speak to the details of Chinese numerology... but I can say that a few different insiders in the 70's HK film industry have said that numbers were added to titles to simply make them sound better. There aren't 36 styles in 36 Deadly Styles or 72 rebels in 72 Desperate Rebels. These are the equivalent of lucky or thought-provoking numbers among the HK and Taiwan movie going populace.

MintyTheCat · Post by **MintyTheCat** » Wed Jun 29, 2016 6:59 pm

NTSC-J wrote:
MintyTheCat wrote:
LEGENOARYNINLIA wrote:Initially you said "..you will never find a floor number four.." but now you are talking about the different implifications of "shi" and "yon" which isn't the same thing.
I think I highlighted that there is a distinction to the number four - 'the object' if you like and the references to it: 'yon' and 'shi' with only 'shi' having the reference to 'death'. So taking that in Japanese both those interpretations of that sentence are logically true but not so in English. I think you have picked up the literal sense that "there is no floor #4 to be found in Japan" - which is never true if any given structure in Japan has >3 floors - the 3+1th floor would ALWAYS be #4 right - I think we can grasp that concept - am I right?

Object or 'concept' would be '4' with references to that concept or object being 'vier', 'four', 'shi', 'yon', etc.

Would you like to split hairs further or does that sufficiently satisfy your interest?
lol

You said "you will never find a floor number four". Not even remotely true and not in the way you're talking about with there just technically being a fourth floor; nearly every building with a fourth floor has a big fat 4 on it. I was on the fourth floor of a building an hour ago marked 4. My old apartment was on the fourth floor with a 4 on the elevator. The only places where they usually are avoided are in hospitals and funeral homes.

aha, let's try again: do most people use 'shi' or 'yon' to refer to the floor number - the reference/label as opposed to the object that is? As given, yes, #3 follows #4 but it is the word used that I was referring to for its stated associations.

In Japan, many apartment houses and car parks skip 4. Many hotels skip the 13th floor, similar to some western hotels.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetraphobia#In_Japan

It talks about the traditional chinese reading of "4" having the association but not the Japanese reading.

MintyTheCat · Post by **MintyTheCat** » Wed Jun 29, 2016 7:01 pm

Xyga wrote:When I lived in China my mobile number had three 8 in it ('bā' is associated with luck/prosperity) the day before leaving I was told I've missed the opportunity to resell it for a nice sum.

In chinese culture is the number 8 associated with wealth? I used to watch the Mahjong games years back and they always played for 16 pounds and never any other amount of cash. I did wonder why it was 8*2 though.

NTSC-J · Post by **NTSC-J** » Thu Jun 30, 2016 1:20 am

MintyTheCat wrote:aha, let's try again: do most people use 'shi' or 'yon' to refer to the floor number - the reference/label as opposed to the object that is? As given, yes, #3 follows #4 but it is the word used that I was referring to for its stated associations.

Yon is used to refer to floor number (yonkai, yonkaime). I'm not really sure what you mean by "the reference/label as opposed to the object", but if someone asks you what floor and you hold up four fingers, you would still say yon, not shi.

The reading yon is much more common simply because it's easier to say. You can read 47 as shijuushichi, but most people say yonjuunana, for instance.

But because of the possibility for other morbid readings, places like hospitals usually avoid certain numbers.

Again, you're overstating things. Most people here don't give a damn and would chuckle at your post like my wife did when I told her what you wrote.

MintyTheCat · Post by **MintyTheCat** » Thu Jun 30, 2016 4:53 am

NTSC-J wrote:
MintyTheCat wrote:aha, let's try again: do most people use 'shi' or 'yon' to refer to the floor number - the reference/label as opposed to the object that is? As given, yes, #3 follows #4 but it is the word used that I was referring to for its stated associations.
Yon is used to refer to floor number (yonkai, yonkaime). I'm not really sure what you mean by "the reference/label as opposed to the object", but if someone asks you what floor and you hold up four fingers, you would still say yon, not shi.

The reading yon is much more common simply because it's easier to say. You can read 47 as shijuushichi, but most people say yonjuunana, for instance.

But because of the possibility for other morbid readings, places like hospitals usually avoid certain numbers.

Again, you're overstating things. Most people here don't give a damn and would chuckle at your post like my wife did when I told her what you wrote.

I am glad that you have answered the question. I merely noted that a distinction is made as would be with nana and shichi.
It tends to be more older and religious people who 'give a damn' I found about this distinction but I also found that when counting most people used shi.

I would counter that you have perhaps overstated things here.

rancor · Post by **rancor** » Thu Jun 30, 2016 5:11 am

MintyTheCat wrote:I also found that when counting most people used shi.

You don't have a clue what you're talking about because this is not factually accurate in any way, fashion, or form.

Not only that, but it goes completely against the first point that you were trying to make that "shi" equals death, so people avoid it.

Endless fascination in the fact that there are 2 long-term Japanese speakers / residents here, and one Chinese speaker / resident - and yet you insist that you know eastern linguistics and culture better than any of us.

MintyTheCat · Post by **MintyTheCat** » Thu Jun 30, 2016 5:28 am

rancor wrote:
MintyTheCat wrote:I also found that when counting most people used shi.
You don't have a clue what you're talking about because this is not factually accurate in any way, fashion, or form.

Not only that, but it goes completely against the first point that you were trying to make that "shi" equals death, so people avoid it.

Endless fascination in the fact that there are 2 long-term Japanese speakers / residents here, and one Chinese speaker / resident - and yet you insist that you know eastern linguistics and culture better than any of us.

And that you try your best to mob me for disagreeing with you on Gun laws in the USA which you have told me over PM that this is why you insist on attacking me. I can print the PM if you'd like me to.

You are not contributing to the discussion; you are merely having a go at me - as you have noted in the PM that you sent to me.

You have made an absolute issue out of this; the question was raised, some ideas were put forward and now *suddenly* you are getting all high and mighty like a jumped up 'TV lawyer'. I have asked you several times, rancor, to stop mobbing me and acting like a bully.

The purpose of the discussion is to elicit what is and what is not correct and the norm and you Teachers over in Japan are in a better position than the rest of us outside of Japan to answer such questions: don't turn this into a bloody crusade, rancor

trap15 · Post by **trap15** » Thu Jun 30, 2016 5:44 am

lmfao

rancor · Post by **rancor** » Thu Jun 30, 2016 6:04 am

MintyTheCat wrote:And that you try your best to mob me for disagreeing with you on Gun laws in the USA which you have told me over PM that this is why you insist on attacking me.

You have some serious reading comprehension issues, which goes a long way to explain why you get so much of the "knowledge" you dispense so terribly wrong. My PM said (copy 'n paste)

rancor wrote: This has nothing to do with guns. I couldn't care less what you think of that subject as your opinion has as much effect on me as a mosquito fart in a hurricane. You're the one that seemingly can't "let it go" with your out-of-context quote from me as your sig.
This is because in multiple threads you come off as a petulant child here to educate and enlighten the shmups forum as to all that is right and true (from your point of view).

Why would you lie about this? I can easily copy and paste the relevant quotes. Why would you lie about there being no 4th floor in Japan? It's so easily disproven. Why do you continually contribute false information to a topic, and then attack anyone who disagrees as "uneducated"? I believe it has a lot to do with another part of the PM which you probably didn't comprehend:

rancor wrote: Look - I get it.. You're an "over educated" blow-hard that feels the need to be correct and show your knowledge in every situation - no matter how little actual knowledge you have on the issue. I'm sure you thrive in the thrill of the moment - showing your superior intellect / knowledge on a subject, and fear the future when someone may be wise to or uncover your bullshit. You're like a pathological liar, but with faux-intellectualism! That's fine - but expect to get called out on it.

LEGENOARYNINLIA · Post by **LEGENOARYNINLIA** » Thu Jun 30, 2016 6:08 am

My point is still this: first he said "never" and then kept copypasting proof from Wikipedia saying it happens sometimes. When I pointed this out he just pretended not to see the error he made and kept posting more "proof" and repeating the same things he already said which all actually prove that his first post in the thread is bull. What kind of a twisted master of internet arguing and trolling do you have to be to refuse admitting exaggerating something and thus becoming a target of ridicule? The guy is just asking for it.

Minty. You said "never". That isn't actually true is it? And you don't know enough about the subject to contribute anything to this thread. Correct?

Skykid · Post by **Skykid** » Thu Jun 30, 2016 6:24 am

Look - I get it.. You're an "over educated" blow-hard that feels the need to be correct and show your knowledge in every situation

People used to say similar things to me, once upon a time. I miss the days of high adventure and war I used wade into, Conan style, on shmups farm.

How I've fallen...

MintyTheCat · Post by **MintyTheCat** » Thu Jun 30, 2016 8:43 am

No worries, rancor, the PM you sent to me is here:

Message subject: Re: Wondering about Chinese "tropes"
From: rancor
Sent: Wed Jun 29, 2016 12:03 pm
To: MintyTheCat
Message

This has nothing to do with guns. I couldn't care less what you think of that subject as your opinion has as much effect on me as a mosquito fart in a hurricane. You're the one that seemingly can't "let it go" with your out-of-context quote from me as your sig.
This is because in multiple threads you come off as a petulant child here to educate and enlighten the shmups forum as to all that is right and true (from your point of view). If I were to guess your background it would either be that as:

A) An only child that was told by your mother and father that your opinion is the most valid and correct of your peers. You spoke to adults as an equal when you were precocious ~9 year old, and everyone hated you and your parents for it.

B) A severely neglected child that had to fight for every bit of attention from parents and peers that couldn't care less what you were doing or saying.

Either way, it now shows in your forum posts where you crow about how educated and well-read you are - Oh - and you made that great move across the channel from UK to Germany! How brave of you! What is that? 75 miles from home? Bravo! You're also an electrical engineer that dabbles in programming, and you read philosophy in your spare time. How do I know all of this? Because you CONSTANTLY TELL EVERYONE. Deeds, not words chap. Let's see a little less talk, and more action. Do you actually accomplish anything, or is it all about the braggadocio? I have no doubt that this affects you in real life as well, and please take this advice to not constantly TELL everyone how awesome you are. Show them. Bust out some of your hot-shit programming to show the forum. Design something useful using your infinite knowledge of EE. All I see is talk from you about all of your skills. Prove it.
Anyhow, despite being so "educated" and "enlightened" you come up with some of the most bat-shit crazy ideas actively talk down to anyone that may disagree with you, or have a different opinion. In short, you're a jerk with aspergers! You've made multiple people here not only question your sanity with your wild, inane, and usually factually incorrect posts, but openly despise you. Seriously! Just drop by #shmups some day and see what people say about you when your name is brought up. Which is fine - I realize that shmups forum does not equal real life. I certainly don't let anything here affect me. I've made several great friends in real life here, but the moment I start PM'ing strangers about how they've "wronged" me, I know it's time to get away from the computer for a bit. (that's you, by the way - Not even in the heady days of 2009 when I had disagreements with Elixir did he ever PM me.)
Now tell me - did you honestly think that no buildings in Japan had a 4th floor? Why would anyone believe that? Now you're going to double-down and say that there's no room 43 in maternity wards? I can't wait to disprove this one with photographic evidence on July 9th when I visit my local hospital for a check-up!

Look - I get it.. You're an over educated blow-hard that feels the need to be correct and show your knowledge in every situation - no matter how little actual knowledge you have on the issue. I'm sure you thrive in the thrill of the moment - showing all your superior intellect / knowledge on a subject, and fear the future someone may be wise to your bullshit. You're like a pathological liar, but with faux-intellectualism! That's fine - but expect to get called out on it.

Don't write back - PM's will unread. You'll know this, because over there on the left <---- your "outbox" will be at (1). Your PM will remain until I hit a full inbox (200 messages - about 2 weeks for me) and it will automatically go to the trash. Unread. - I have no desire to continue this privately. I want to perhaps tell you what others think, but are too polite to say. I have no doubt you're a mental wreck in real-life social situations - perhaps get some counseling, or see a therapist. Maybe you'll get some friends in real life if you re-examine your approach to these social situations, and not try to constantly be "right", impress everyone in the room, or have the last word on every subject. That's not how you make friends in the real world, or on forums. If you can't take any of this to heart, then I want to show the public what a fool / jackass you are with your own words. And I will be watching. Go ahead and cry to a mod about it!

Hugs + kisses

Jeff

PS - I told you this had nothing to do with guns! I've thought about this a lot, and I genuinely can't stand you!
_________________
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Looks like a case of character-assassination to me and let's be clear here: this is not about the word 'never' this is about you having a go at me in a thread that you have not thus far shown us any insight into.

Thing is, Rancor, you are just bitter about not 'winning' the gun law debate. Now, most reasonable people conclude that the availability of guns and indeed a 'gun culture' has an effect on the number of people who die from gun wounds and then you come along and tell us how "guns = people safer". Even your own MPs decided to protest:

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/06/d ... 56143.html

Very much so a "not my problem and doesn't affect me" kind of attitude, Rancor and thank the man upstairs that some people in America disagree with you.

This is wholely about the gun debate and how upset you were with me disagreeing with you - let's be honest here. You have nothing to contribute other than tell how cool you are for having lived in Japan for eons - great. For that chap from Finland: I have actually added to the discussion before you appeared - look above. I am not here to take cheap shots at you, I was actually here for the discussion.

Skykid · Post by **Skykid** » Thu Jun 30, 2016 9:28 am

It's not character assassination if it's said to you in private. But since you just publicly posted the entire thing, you kind of assassinated yourself, if that makes sense.

I'd love to know some of the shit I get on IRC

MintyTheCat · Post by **MintyTheCat** » Thu Jun 30, 2016 9:42 am

Skykid wrote:It's not character assassination if it's said to you in private. But since you just publicly posted the entire thing, you kind of assassinated yourself, if that makes sense.

I'd love to know some of the shit I get on IRC

Ah no, Rancor has done this a few times in threads now - I think this is the third or fourth time now but it is clear from his PM to me that this is his intention.

Skykid · Post by **Skykid** » Thu Jun 30, 2016 9:55 am

MintyTheCat wrote:
Skykid wrote:It's not character assassination if it's said to you in private. But since you just publicly posted the entire thing, you kind of assassinated yourself, if that makes sense.

I'd love to know some of the shit I get on IRC
Ah no, Rancor has done this a few times in threads now - I think this is the third or fourth time now but it is clear from his PM to me that this is his intention.

You should respect his honesty!

I always like it when someone tells me I'm toxic and I'm ruining their browsing experience.