Looking for Market Study on Shmups

A place for people with an interest in developing new shmups.
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hearto
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Looking for Market Study on Shmups

Post by hearto »

Hello guys,
I'm looking for info about the market share on Shmup genre for a study.
Something like this:
http://www.theesa.com/wp-content/upload ... s-2015.pdf
but only based on SHMUP genre and with Japan on the group of study.
I read this:
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=7822
and this:
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=7858
but as you can see I'm looking for something more formal.

My principal interest is:
Which platform prefer the typical shmup fan.
What is the "stereotype" of one.
What are more popular separated by platforms, Bullet Hells or shmups based on memorization like Gradius or R-type. Horizontal or Vertical?

Based on my experiences and because I'm a fan of shmups and arcade games on general too I could guess the typical stereotype is:

Shmup Fan:
Image
Guys, 25-35 years old
Play mostly on consoles, but today he is moving to the PC, with more and more japanese developers porting their Shmups to PC and indies making new games who are considered "too risky" for the Big Game Developers, there are a strong posibility for PC as his principal platform on future.
Despite the typical depiction from late 70° or 8X° ads, where all the guys playing arcade or console games are the coolest guys in town.

They're fairly normal people which enjoy:
  • To compete with other people, mainly on who gets the best score.
    Play Hard as balls games.
    Deep and maybe complicated mechanics with a slow learning curve, they tends to play games which requires to replay it multiple times for understanding all the gameplay features.
    They don't have much time and find today games too long. Preference for games who offer a High Burst of gameplay on Short Time (each game session about 20-40 min)
    A strong sense of hardcore game design (they generally could answer why X game is bad and this one is good and hate babysitting philosophy on most actual games)
So guys if you don't know a place where I could find this info or numbers to make the study myself?
If the answer is no you could try to describe yourself and the 5 most representative points as a shmup fan, like my description of me on top, maybe we could make a pattern.
Last edited by hearto on Mon Jun 20, 2016 7:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Cagar
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Post by Cagar »

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Last edited by Cagar on Mon Jan 01, 2024 3:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Pixel_Outlaw
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Re: Looking for Market Study on Shmups

Post by Pixel_Outlaw »

You'll probably find a lot of info in the introductions thread.

Shmups players tend to like games that are easy to learn hard to master. (But you MUST MUST MUST be fair, no lifebar to overcome poor stage design etc.)
We value riding that razor edge between screwing up and beating that hard boss.


Things to generally NOT do in a shmup
1. Healthbars (especially to compensate for unavoidable damage)
2. Hitboxes that fit the player sprite poorly (corners hanging outside the sprite)
3. Enemies that just fly straight and shoot straight (Euroshmups always do this and it's ugly and stupid)
4. Excessive parts shopping (You must be careful, scoring can become meaningless between heavily customized ships)
5. Enemies that die too slowly. It is annoying when you have 5 enemies flying at you but only enough time to kill 1 of them.
6. Levels that are drawn out and feature the same waves of enemies over and over. (We want to finish a game in a single sitting 45 minutes to an hour usually)
6a Too many levels. 6 - 8 is usually fine.
7. Surprise enemies that appear with no warning on the screen edge especially from the rear.
8. INERTIA never add inertia to player movement, screw realism. When piloting a chibi squealing loli you don't want drift.

I think you're going to see a saturation of Shmups on services like Steam lately.
If you're going to market one make sure something about it stands out.
Some of the best shmups don't actually end in a vowel.
No, this game is not Space Invaders.
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hearto
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Re: Looking for Market Study on Shmups

Post by hearto »

Pixel_Outlaw, I'm aware of the dev topics
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 31&start=0
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=7874
but thanks for condense the information.

About the study I found some interesting info looking at steamspy Geography with a registered account.
First I picked some of the most popular shmups from Steam and then used the 5 top owners from each country for a preliminar rough analisis.

List of shmup picked on steam:
Ikaruga
Jets'n'Guns
Raiden 4
Sine Mora
Darius Burst
Mushihimesama
DeathSmiles
Crimzon Clover
Gundemonium
Revolver360
Danmaku Unlimited 2
JamesTown

Results:
On my mind Japan should be the biggest shmup consumer on all markets, but numbers say otherwise.
First market by an abysmal margin (3x over other countries) is: USA
Second is: United Kingdom
Third: Canada
Fourth: Japan

Now you should be thinking "there are only two cave bullet hells on that list (Mushihimesama and DeathSmiles) ergo the low Japanese Numbers"
But still those are on par with USA owners (both almost 30% of the total owners), but yes those two and Darius Burst, Ikaruga are the most popular Steam shmups among Japan.

Now some interesting data from the games on this study:
The most popular shmup of steam is:
  • 1. Jamestown by a big margin, 600k vs 200k owners of second place
    2. Sine Mora
    3. Crimzon Clover
Now let's remove from that list the games from the Humble Bundle Golden Days and the result is:
  • 1. Ikaruga
    2. Jets'n'Guns
    3. Revolver360
Yes as you think cave niche shmups has low salerates ;(, same with Darius Burst (23k the most sucessful one which is Mushihimesama).
The most popular steam shmup among Japan is Ikaruga on relation of the owners (10660 japanese only owners vs 6660 from Mushihimesama).
Jamestown and Sine Mora aren't popular games on Japan.

This could change on the future, for example Cave released his games fairly recently, and that is a reason for posible low sales on Death Smiles (9000 global).


Now how I could get some data on Japanese Market and consoles. There is a japanese shmup related community somewhere? A forum? Chan? Reddit?
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Elixir
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Re: Looking for Market Study on Shmups

Post by Elixir »

re: Steam. For getting your game on there, there's no Japanese documentation for commercial or doujin devs to work with (Treasure were so confused by it they threw Ikaruga on Greenlight), so almost every game goes through a western publisher like Degica or Nyu Media. What this means is that most will not even bother. If they try they will have to go through the Greenlight process. Valve also doesn't accept games on Greenlight OR any game unless they have a full description in English.

Secondly there's no real PC scene in Japan. When there is, they're buying Razer's garbage, playing CS:GO or TF2 or Half-Life or Portal... they're not interested in their own stuff, they're interested in the western PC gaming world, still a minority though, but Japanese fans of western content are out there.

Another issue is publishers and developers region-locking Steam games so Japanese can't buy them (known as omakuni/おま国), many Japanese games released on Steam are not available in Japan. This is done for a bunch of reasons: either the creators don't want to undermine domestic physical retail sales and physical stores, or they don't want people purchasing cheaper foreign copies (7100-8800 yen vs. $40/50 USD), or the game has no Japanese language support, or there's double DRM involved (Steam games which require Uplay, Origin, etc)... the list goes on. Bamco, Sega, Falcom, Konami, Capcom, EA, Square, all guilty. There's even more that do this, but I know that Bamco, Square and Koei are the mains.

http://kakaku.com/item/K0000879064/ - here's a list of stores offering the GTX 1080, and their prices. Since the majority of stuff is imported into the country, it's ridiculously expensive to build a PC gaming rig domestically, domestic prices are far above the US/Canada. I realize that the 1080 is hardly obtainable even inside the US so maybe it's a poor example, but the cost is always going to be higher. And it isn't as if you're ever going to need a PC to that degree to play 2D games with, but it's just an example of why people opt for a one-off console purchase. ... I don't even think you could make a PC build comparable to the specs of the PS4 in Japan and have comparable prices, and why would anyone do that when they could just buy a domestically-made console with warranty and domestic support? And that's even assuming they know how to build a PC, or get someone to do it for them. Any way you look at it, it's pretty counter-productive.

And even still, if someone wants to buy a doujin game which was released at Comiket, they could just order it from Toranoana or Melonbooks, or buy it in real life. They're either the same price or cheaper, unless the game is physically out of print and hard to find.

Steam is primarily a credit card and PayPal oriented design, neither of which are terribly commonplace in Japanese life (although credit cards are becoming increasingly more popular), bank transfer and convenience store payment have always been the norm, but Degica is also largely responsible for conbini payment becoming available on Steam as well. This didn't happen until sometime in 2014, so the last... 10 years or so, Japanese have had to either use credit cards or PayPal to purchase Steam games on, assuming that a) they're not region-locked and b) they have Japanese language support.

Steamspy isn't accurate either. You're telling me Eschatos has a margin error of 1400... and for Japanese who want to play the shmups on 360? 360 consoles with controllers are already under $50, the games range from $20-50 depending on rarity, some higher than others (Raiden Fighters Aces goes for 13,000+ yen, Daioujou Black Label Extra is also pretty high up there due to only ever having one print).

It's primarily a western platform with terrible support for both Japanese developers who wish to get their content on the platform, and for those wanting to use the platform. Degica at least seems to be making change for the better but I just don't see the platform ever taking off in Japan even if every shmup in existence comes to it. Degica also seems to be going through a transitional period where not even they can guarantee their ports will be as accurate as the 360 releases. There's lots of little things involved which doesn't surprise me that the majority of people purchasing shmups on Steam are westerners.
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hearto
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Re: Looking for Market Study on Shmups

Post by hearto »

Elixir that comments was what I'm looking for.
Yes, steamspy is innacurate with the exact numbers, but on percent should be the same result in popular titles, this could be a good starting point, but not the definitive.
http://kakaku.com/item/K0000879064/ <-- sad thing is more cheap than my country ;(, but yes if you take on account the dirty cheap price of consoles on japan, should be logic to be a more console oriented country.
Our roadmap is more like this: Steam (Windows/Linux/Mac) > PS4/VITA > Other consoles >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mobile
We chosed steam because the entry point is much more lighter, and with the product finished we could get more easy the devkits from at least sony.
I hope XYDONIA does great on Steam, because our game is so similar and almost follow the same philosophy, so is a great case of study.

Guys, Somebody know if as a "baka gaijin" could be posible to sell my game on future in Japan? I suppose the best bet is with a Japanese Publisher, but what about go there and talk directly with the retail or what events I should be looking for.
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tiaoferreira
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Re: Looking for Market Study on Shmups

Post by tiaoferreira »

Well, you can contact to FRED RICHTER, owner of BLUE PIXEL GAMES ( http://www.bpixel.com.br/ ) or RODRIGO CALABREZI, CEO on NUUVEM ( http://www.nuuvem.com ), competitors of Steam. Despite being companies based in Brazil, the first is a small company, but its cast has considerable knowlege about game marketing. The second is a medium company that compete directly to Steam, and sale games from famous producers worldwide. Therefore, I believe that they can provide you with data for your enterprise.
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