Mighty No. 9

[copy-paster]

Finally, something to be hyped about

Who's the composer(s)?

See the Rockman 2 composers, same guys.

[soprano1]

Damn, that sounds awesome.

[Strider77]

It is nothing but nasal demons when trying to get smaller projects off the ground.

What are nasal demons?

[KAI]

Who's the composer(s)?

Manami Matsumae, Ippo Yamada, Takashi Tateishi and Masahiro Aoki.
http://vgmdb.net/album/59677

[hien]

It's Inti creates, the best 2D/2.5D games developer alive.

Well, but are they really? I mean, have they been for the last couple of years? I wasn't particularly impressed by the gameplay and design of Gunvolt or MN9 (while I love the Zeros and the first ZX) and those are the two main titles they've been working on recently.
I hope they prove that they still got it with Bloodstained. The intentional implementation of animation canceling at least got my hopes up again. Which gameplay-wise also is probably one of the few impressive things you can do with the Metroidvania formula.

And I don't know if I'd say best 2.5D developer, even before MN9. When it comes to 3D graphics, their games never looked good. Just look at their 3DS Gon game or Great Battle Fullblast for PSP. They look awful, even with the platforms' limitations und budget constraints kept in mind. Bloodstained is the first game with 3D graphics by them (?) which looks decent.

[Squire Grooktook]

(while I love the Zeros and the first ZX)

Nothing wrong with the second Zx. I consider it better, personally.

Gunvolt was a massive, horrific mechanical clusterfuck with terrible level design, though.

[hien]

Nothing wrong with the second Zx.

Not with the mechanics. But always getting turned back to your normal form after cutscenes or deaths and then having to cycle through the legion of suits was a pain in the ass and really annoyed me back then. Which btw. also harmed the leveldesign. Too many gimmicky sections which stopped the flow for my taste.
Still a great game, sure. But for me the first one felt more focused. You could just put on the Z suit and have fun withoug having to worry about anything else.

[Squire Grooktook]

I literally never even noticed the cutscene thing. You can just put on the A suit and do the same for the most part in Advent too, and you don't have worry about the terribly poorly layed out and mapped overworld in that one.

I also think the bosses and level layouts in Advent are a tad better, but that ones probably splitting hairs.

[Mortificator]

I don't like either ZX game, and I certainly don't like Azure Striker Gunvolt.

The four Zero games were amazing, though, and although I was very skeptical about Mega Man 9 and 10, they turned out to be a lot of fun.

[iconoclast]

I think Mega Man 9 is my favorite game in the series. 10 was also good even if it's not quite at the same level, but it's still much better than anything that came after 3. KAI's comment made me think, though. Inti Creates probably is the best 2D action/platform developer out there... not because they're amazing, but more because everybody else (that's actively making games) sucks. They win by process of elimination.

Anyway, this game turned out to be shit. Nice to see Inafune poisoning the well for Kickstarter after all of the damage he caused to Capcom.

[Squire Grooktook]

I think Mega Man 9 is my favorite game in the series. 10 was also good even if it's not quite at the same level, but it's still much better than anything that came after 3.

I dunno, even the best Classic Mega Man's are terribly boring to me compared to the X/Zero series gorgeous movement mechanics. 9 is to me a perfect execution of an unremarkable engine.

[iconoclast]

I meant the classic series specifically. I haven't played all of the X/Zero/ZX games, but the ones I have played do some things that I like and don't like by comparison. I prefer the classic series for now, but maybe I'll change my mind once I play more of the newer ones.

Going back to 2D developers tho, I wonder who else is even in the discussion. Dracue's Gunhound EX and Assault Suits Leynos are good, but they've only made two games in the last 10 years. Crazy Viking Studios' Volgarr the Viking is a masterpiece, but their previous game, Shinobi 3D, was pretty meh. I think that can partially be blamed on a tiny budget and unnecessary bloat more than the level design and mechanics, though. Arc Systems Works made Hard Corps Uprising, another masterpiece, but they haven't done anything since. And WayForward sucks. Is there anyone else?

[Skykid]

Arc Systems Works made Hard Corps Uprising, another masterpiece, but they haven't done anything since. And WayForward sucks.

Does that mean you think Uprising is better than Contra 4? With two amazingly incorrect statements in two sentences, you may as well go for the triple!

(Arc probably haven't done anything since Uprising because it was so amazingly dissapointing!)

[iconoclast]

Of course, Uprising is leagues ahead of Contra 4. Actually, it's pretty easily the best game in the entire Contra series.

[Squire Grooktook]

I will be the true hero and admit that I still love both games. Uprising is the more flawed among them, but also has some of the most interesting mechanics. I actually hold both games roughly equal in terms of FUN factor, though 4 is a far more polished game.

*edit*

^^^naaaaw Contra 3's laser fast and precise, masterfully paced, ultra varied, rng chaos rocks all other side scrollers IMO.

I could probably write a quick run down on the pro's and cons of the series, having extensively played/1cc'd/1lc'd many of them on multiple occasions. Guaranteed to be the most undeniably perfectly objectively accurate analysis you'll find outside of Warmaster BIL's writings. Maybe I'll do that if this discussion continues.


On a more on topic note, this is usually what I post when evangelizing on the divine beauty of x/zero/zx's dash and wall jump mechanics.

[Strider77]

^^^naaaaw Contra 3's laser fast and precise, masterfully paced, ultra varied, rng chaos rocks all other side scrollers IMO.

Except when it comes screaming to halt during the top view stages.

[BrianC]

^^^naaaaw Contra 3's laser fast and precise, masterfully paced, ultra varied, rng chaos rocks all other side scrollers IMO.

Except when it comes screaming to halt during the top view stages.

Disagree here. The top down stages are fast paced and go by quickly if you know what you are doing.

I think Mega Man 9 is my favorite game in the series. 10 was also good even if it's not quite at the same level, but it's still much better than anything that came after 3.

I didn't find 4-6 to be bad games at all. 5 has some of the most awesome levels in the series with Star Man and Gravity Man. Rockman World 4 and 5/Megaman IV and V Gameboy are also two of the better games in the series.

Edit: For some reason, I had the NES style stuck in my head, but I also like 7 and 8.

Crazy Viking Studios' Volgarr the Viking is a masterpiece, but their previous game, Shinobi 3D, was pretty meh. I think that can partially be blamed on a tiny budget and unnecessary bloat more than the level design and mechanics, though.

I was under the impression that Volgarr was actually done on a smaller budget. Shinobi 3D shared some of the same staff, but was done by Griptonite before they became part of Glu mobile and some of the developers left. Shinobi 3D probably started out as a standard DS game (seems to be running on an engine based on the one Spider-Man Web of Shadows DS uses), which would explain the crude look.

[hien]

Going back to 2D developers tho, I wonder who else is even in the discussion.

If we're talking about 2D developers in general without limiting it to a specific genre, I'd easily pick Vanillaware over Inti nowadays. A lot hast changed during the last 9 years I guess…

I didn't find 4-6 to be bad games at all. 5 has some of the most awesome levels in the series with Star Man and Gravity Man.

Glad I'm not alone on this one. I'm always wondering why 4 and 5 in particular are regarded as being worse than 3. Too easy in comparison?

[Udderdude]

Pre-release reviews not looking too hot. http://www.metacritic.com/game/playstat ... ighty-no-9

I watched some Twitch streams of it. Wasn't too impressed.

[BIL]

Anyway, this game turned out to be shit. Nice to see Inafune poisoning the well for Kickstarter after all of the damage he caused to Capcom.

https://i.imgur.com/52LOj3C.png

Spoiler

Sonichu KS when

(I have never played it, but by all accounts it is terrible. However, I have seen the vacation it paid for, and it was terrific. ¦3 ) WAIT DONT SHOOT ITS JUST A JOKE O_O a big floppy internet willy for all who got the esteemed reference ;3

I could probably write a quick run down on the pro's and cons of the series, having extensively played/1cc'd/1lc'd many of them on multiple occasions. Guaranteed to be the most undeniably perfectly objectively accurate analysis you'll find outside of Warmaster BIL's writings. Maybe I'll do that if this discussion continues.

TBH, post-PS2 Contra is a longtime blind spot of the sidescroller thread - I'd be honoured if you chaps would do battle there. :3

[Skykid]

Of course, Uprising is leagues ahead of Contra 4. Actually, it's pretty easily the best game in the entire Contra series.

Although I never hear anyone describe Uprising as a masterpiece, thankfully - which makes yours something of a closet case - it still amazes me that anyone holds the game in any regard whatsoever. It's so poorly conceived and balanced, it barely works as a run and gun, letalone a Contra game.

Contra 4 by comparison really IS a masterpiece, despite playing relatively safe and only slightly augmenting the playbook.

I'm not sure where the notion that Wayforward "sucks" comes from though. They have proved themselves several times already.

[Austin]

*edit: nothing to see here.

[Squire Grooktook]

Hey I just woke up

^^^naaaaw Contra 3's laser fast and precise, masterfully paced, ultra varied, rng chaos rocks all other side scrollers IMO.

Except when it comes screaming to halt during the top view stages.

Disagree here. The top down stages are fast paced and go by quickly if you know what you are doing.

Yes exactly, they're pretty fun diversions that go by in seconds when you play them well.

Let me put it this way, the top down stages in 3, while not as glorious as the side scrolling stages, are far preferable to the worst sections of some of the other games. Much more enjoyable to SEEK AND DESTROY then slowly climbing up an elevator shaft while waiting for a mech to follow.

It's so poorly conceived and balanced, it barely works as a run and gun, letalone a Contra game.

I will forever hold that the game is not nearly as bad as all that. There are some weapon balance/recovery issues (not uncommon to arcade games really), but the majority of the game's run time is fully functional, only marred by a handful of very annoying and noticeable problem areas. The level design might not be consistently masterful (like 3), but it has far more "solid" to "good" sections than it does "bad" ones. And when it really gets into the groove, air dashing bullet dodging acrobatics are a unique joy in the game that you can't really get anywhere else.

IMO, the biggest tragedy of Uprising is that there never was a sequel. An improved second installment with the few mistakes learned from and excised would truly have been a masterpiece. Otherwise I relegate Uprising to the "flawed but fun" bracket, where I also place the original Hardcorps (to a far lesser extent) and Arcade Super Contra (to a far greater extent).

As for Contra 4, it's basically a Contra 1 master course. Emphasizes platforming over battle the whole way through, which the series hasn't really done since the 80's, and manages to carve out its own niche. I could make a few misc' nitpicks here and there, which mostly serve to make Contra 1 still relevant, but overall it's still an A class game.

[Vludi]

Contra 3 is great but man it could have been even better with more side-scrolling levels instead of the Mode 7 stuff (which is decent, but not great)

I haven't put much time in 4 but from what i played it's pretty great, the only thing i dislike is the DS' resolution.

[NTSC-J]

Inafune says launch version of Mighty No.9 'is better than nothing'

“So, for now, this is what you see and what you get, for the Mighty No. 9 world. But, again, we can hope that if things go well, there'll be sequels. Because I'll tell you what, I'm not getting my 2D side-scrolling fill. And at the end of the day, even if it's not perfect, it's better than nothing. At least, that's my opinion."

Judd also explained how Inafune began work on other projects once the game had hit around the 70 per cent completion mark and was not involved in its porting to various platforms.

[Skykid]

I will forever hold that the game is not nearly as bad as all that. There are some weapon balance/recovery issues (not uncommon to arcade games really), but the majority of the game's run time is fully functional, only marred by a handful of very annoying and noticeable problem areas.

I can only agree that the game isn't a catastrophe. A good game? Debatable. The weapon imbalance issues are only similar to arcade games we criticise for being badly structured, rather than those we accept as top tier. Uprising does so much wrong with its stage design, broken scoring, broken DLC characters and highly regrettable weaponry and obscene penalties, that it doesn't qualify as a finished product for me. It's like it was released while still in beta.

There are elements of it that are very good, as demonstrated by high level play - but they're heavily marred by its faults, to the point where there's an unintentional and unwelcome wall that requires the player to figure out a workaround. That's not applause worthy for me. Balanced games with regulated challenge, no matter how steep, are what I'm all about. Uprising doesn't represent those virtues.

Contra 4 on the other hand is one of the tautest Contra 1cc's I've ever had the pleasure of bringing to heel. Perhaps too taut, in places, since it's massively heavy on old school memorisation. But its endless rampant set pieces and smart weapon utilisation make it a helluva ride.

Never reached the highest points of Contra III mind. While I agree the mode 7 substages are lesser, they can be blown through in minutes. But smashing that game into oblivion on expert occasionally reaches heart stopping, unparalleled action crescendos.

[hien]

Inafune says launch version of Mighty No.9 'is better than nothing'

It's a bit harsh though, quoting only that line out of context (which I just noticed is btw. also nothing, Inafune said himself) but it's obvious in which direction that article is aiming. I'm heavily disappointed by the game myself, but articles like that are just distorting junk.

There were a lot of things said during that stream (just watched parts of it out of curiosity), including more or less interesting bits of info which confirm some of the speculations made before. The most interesting part ist probably them admitting, that they massively underestimated the workamount that would go into the porting and how that ate up more time and money, than they expected and of which a big chunk was initially planned to go into the development of the game itself. Sure makes them look somewhat naive but you really don't get the impression, that they're just shrugging off the criticism like that quote makes it seem.

For those interested: you can watch the recording of the stream here (Inafune joins in after the 41 minute mark):
https://www.twitch.tv/comceptusa/v/73636349

[Squire Grooktook]

Uprising does so much wrong with its stage design, broken scoring, broken DLC characters and highly regrettable weaponry and obscene penalties, that it doesn't qualify as a finished product for me. It's like it was released while still in beta.

I think stage design is the key point I'd disagree on, something that's always one of the most integral parts of an arcade action game besides the fundamental mechanics themselves. I find Uprising's stage designs to be mostly solid, as I said.

-Stage 1 is a bit lengthy but innoffensive
-Stage 2 can be a bit stop start if you bring the pea shooter, but any one of the several piercing weapons you're given in the stage before turn it into a fairly breezy and enjoyable multipathed bullet dodging extravaganza
-Stage 3 is a lot wider and more open compared to stage 2 (a nice contrast), an enjoyable stage that sadly shits the bed right at the end with that horrendous boss fight that requires abuse from certain weapons to take out in a fair amount of time.
-Stage 4 is kind of an alright autoscroller with several very fun bosses and one very not fun boss.
-Stage 5 has some rollicking conveyor belt + lava pit platforming, marred by a terrible "escort mision" gimmick at the end

etc. etc. I feel it more or less follows that pattern of "60% solid, 15% excellence, 25% GARBAGE". The ratio is just off enough for me to call it "flawed", and prevents me from recommending it without caveats, but it's also just on the right side of the balance of "enjoyable/worth playing".

I'd also be willing to argue that it's not the most flawed Contra either. Arcade Super Contra is worth playing for its best moments as well, but persistent control issues really make it one of the most fundamentally annoying games in the series. Say what you want about Uprising's worst offenses, but it's fundamental controls and movement mechanics are a strength, rather than a weakness as in AC Super's case.

The weapon imbalance issues are only similar to arcade games we criticise for being badly structured, rather than those we accept as top tier.

Very true. But having played and enjoyed many arcadey blasters that I don't consider top tier, yet none the less offer some unique entertainment, I'm personally okay with accepting a game's faults (up to a point, of course), so long as it offers something that you can't find elsewhere.

[Udderdude]

.

[Skykid]

Very true. But having played and enjoyed many arcadey blasters that I don't consider top tier, yet none the less offer some unique entertainment, I'm personally okay with accepting a game's faults (up to a point, of course), so long as it offers something that you can't find elsewhere.

Let me reframe this a little. I also enjoy many arcade games I don't consider top tier (the 'top tier' is actually a very small bracket in the grand scheme of things) but when Uprising can't even get basic fundamentals like walking speed and autofire right, it's actually failing to achieve some of the simplest requirements of arcade-style gaming. Some of its bosses (and mid-bosses) are utterly painful, its stage design ranges from pedestrian, strung out and bland, peppered with occasional moments of inspiration that should have been the rule rather than the exception, and again, although all the weaponry can be commanded, the defaults are retarded and the thinking and methodology behind the weaponry is counter-intuitive in a way that doesn't suit run n' guns at all.

I feel it more or less follows that pattern of "60% solid, 15% excellence, 25% GARBAGE".

Yes, now this I can get behind. I would agree with that appraisal; the question is whether I'm interested in spending a huge amount of time on any game that's 25% GARBAGE (and Uprising's arcade mode does indeed require a mammoth amount of time - perhaps twenty times more than something like Contra III - to learn, according to iconoclasts clocked hours).

The answer is probably no, although I wouldn't say that definitively, since I've found enjoyment and seen out certain games that were far from perfect and sometimes borderline not even very good. In Uprising's case however, its flaws are too frustrating to make it enjoyable for me, and I refuse to lean back on Uprising mode because it's just concessionary to try to alleviate all the fuckups in the arcade mode.

And I've said all this about Uprising a million times, and in the good name of videogaming, I'd probably say it all again - but for now I think it's probably time to get back to shitting on Inafune for his very unsurprising letdown of the decade.