4th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time! - Discussion thread

[Grinning Cat]

Question: Without wanting to start a huge debate, regarding what is/isn't a shmup, would I be allowed to vote for Twinkle Tale (Jap Mega Drive)? Only one level has forced scrolling, which I'm sure probably disqualifies it...but since tube shooters are now allowed, I thought there was no harm in asking

~ Grinning Cat

[CIT]

I think it should be allowed, but that's just me.

Great game, btw.

[doctorx0079]

Out of last year's winners, which have been released in home versions and which ones never have??

haven't: Armed Police Batrider, ESP Ra.De. [excluding cellphone butchery, of course]

Ya mean all the other ones have??? TOTALLY RAD. Now I can get me some. I guess Gradius V would be good to start with. (Yes, it's true, I don't have Gradius V yet.)

[DC906270]

some people are voting for Vulgus as their favourite shmup? weird

[Rob]

- No PC-Engine love
- No Compile love
- No cute 'em up love (c'mon at least Harmful Park should make the list this year)
- Why is Thunderforce III better than IV!?

What's to vote for with the PC-E. It's got Air Zonk. Fore cute 'em ups I also voted for Parodius (Da?). I'm surprised Parodius doesn't make it, but votes are probably split between the different titles in the series. Compile suxx.

TF3 was out first, more memorable, had more influence, better music. It's a 16-bit icon, while not as challenging or epic as TF4. TF4 is for console shump connoisseurs. I wasn't even aware of TF4 until after I played TF5 in 99/00.

Question: Without wanting to start a huge debate, regarding what is/isn't a shmup, would I be allowed to vote for Twinkle Tale (Jap Mega Drive)? Only one level has forced scrolling, which I'm sure probably disqualifies it...but since tube shooters are now allowed, I thought there was no harm in asking

MERCS is out, so...

[raiden]

some people are voting for Vulgus as their favourite shmup? weird

well, Vulgus isn´t only unique in having AI enemies, it´s also well-balanced, offers a long learning curve and rare, truly nonstop action. It feels completely different from all other shmups in that you don´t need to worry about bullets too much, but have to "dance" with the enemies to handle them. Having no power-ups means you can always recover after dying, but are thrown back into action immediately, but the game gets hectic and hard very fast.
It was a major influence for the 1942 series, but I find it works out much better, which means a lot because the 1942 series also consists of excellent games.

[jp]

From what I'm seeing so far, I predict:
Radiant Silvergun will move down.
Dodonpachi will remain #1(sadly)
Battle Garegga will be the highest its been yet.

[Grinning Cat]

MERCS is out, so...

Oh well, time to re-think my top five...

[professor ganson]

Compile suxx.

Is this just hyperbole? I agree that the levels are often too long, that they can be too easy/slow/boring at times, and there can be too many levels, but sometimes the action is pretty intense and fun. I really like the look of their games and the music can be excellent. The scoring system in Zanac Neo is simple but challenging. On the whole I'd say I'm a fan.

[jp]

I really haven't played enough Compile games to really be able to comment. I really need to get back into the PC-Engine Duo so I can check them out a bit better (I played Gunhed briefly... I think that may be it).

[Rob]

Compile suxx.

Is this just hyperbole?

I always think they are flawed in multiple ways, so for the sake of a "greatest of all times" list I'll stick with sucks. Many of their classics are almost completely boring (Spriggan).

[Blade]

From what I'm seeing so far, I predict:
Radiant Silvergun will move down.
Dodonpachi will remain #1(sadly)
Battle Garegga will be the highest its been yet.

Why?

Why???

Why??????

[Turrican]

I'll dig up results from previous years in a bit. They're probably in last year's discussion thread somewhere though.

2004 Results
2003 Results
2002 Results

Zach, in 2003 there were 39 voters, and in 2004 they were 55 (scaled - whatever that means ?!? - to 49.28 ).

How many did vote in 2002?

I'd also like to be redirected to a list of the voters's nicknames.

1st Annual voters

?

2nd Annual voters

?

3rd Annual voters:

Rob
NTSC-J
MadSteelDarkness
DarkWolf7
nZero
Ganelon
Shatterhand
Kiel
BrianC
Edge
Thunder Force
Bydobasher
Ghegs
jp
Ord
angrycoder
Anarchos
BulletMagnet
parodius
Zach Keene
Herr Schatten
cigsthecat
Accutron
Blue Lander
Tar-Palantir
gs68
raiden
tehkao
mirkvid
GaijinPunch
IlMrm
jslithy
nullstar
alpha5099
uwfan
The vagrant
bloodflowers
BUHA
chtimi
Randorama
SPACE HARRIER
shmup-o
Badaro
Super Laydock
CMoon
shiftace
sven666
SheSaidDutch
visuatrox
fraggore
Zhon
sininenat
professor ganson
MovingTarget
Tychom
ST Dragon

[professor ganson]

Compile suxx.

Is this just hyperbole?

I always think they are flawed in multiple ways, so for the sake of a "greatest of all times" list I'll stick with sucks. Many of their classics are almost completely boring (Spriggan).

Interesting. Spriggan hasn't drawn me in much yet. Gunnac either. I do love Zanac and Zanac Neo, though, and M.U.S.H.A. is good fun. I have yet to play Space Megaforce, which I want to get in the hope that it will get me playing my SNES again.

[Neon]

circuit face voted for 1944: Shall we ban him, or just call his father a hamster?

I'm no huge fan of Compile's either. Judging from Space Megaforce they're hugely talented in terms of getting great graphics out of the hardware, but...here's a text rendition of the first level of blazing lazers:

5 enemies come onscreen
kill the 5 enemies
wait
5 enemies come onscreen
kill the 5 enemies
wait
5 enemies come onscreen
kill the 5 enemies
wait

etc. I'd say it takes till the 3rd level to at least keep my attention. Many good soundtracks between their games, but many crap/meh games have great soundtracks.

[Turrican]

I'm no huge fan of Compile's either. Judging from Space Megaforce they're hugely talented in terms of getting great graphics out of the hardware

Funny, graphics are often the most criticized aspect of that game, for being not on par on what the Snes was capable to do.

[Zach Keene]

How many did vote in 2002?

I don't know, and since the relevant threads got buried with the Gamespy forums it'd be hard to find out.

[Rob]

Funny, graphics are often the most criticized aspect of that game, for being not on par on what the Snes was capable to do.

What the... That's a new one to me. It seems like the tour de force of retarded SNES effects.

[Neon]

Funny, graphics are often the most criticized aspect of that game, for being not on par on what the Snes was capable to do.

What the... That's a new one to me. It seems like the tour de force of retarded SNES effects.

Yeah, transparencies, scaling, speech...probably threw in mode7 somewhere too, just for the hell of it.

[Turrican]

Funny, graphics are often the most criticized aspect of that game, for being not on par on what the Snes was capable to do.

What the... That's a new one to me. It seems like the tour de force of retarded SNES effects.

Yeah, transparencies, scaling, speech...probably threw in mode7 somewhere too, just for the hell of it.

http://kelesis.free.fr/hp/compile/alest ... ex_eng.htm

and that's the first article that came to mind... Yeah, for some genesis addicted fellow S.Aleste may seem graphically heavy - but then again, it was released in europe around the same time of Axelay.

Perhaps this is due to Compile surpassing themselves on the MD - if you take out special effects from S.Aleste, what remains isn't on par with Musha aesthetically speaking (though the SFC game is a lot better overall, imho).

[Turrican]

How many did vote in 2002?

I don't know, and since the relevant threads got buried with the Gamespy forums it'd be hard to find out.

You know what would be cool? To have Malc vote - I know he's busy and rarely seen on the forums, but I'm sure he has a top 25 in his mind. Maybe we should pm him?

[professor ganson]

circuit face voted for 1944: Shall we ban him, or just call his father a hamster?

lol, I didn't know that circuitface posts in the ON Topic part of the forum. I think his list is cool.

[Ceph]

I haven't participated before and I have a question concering the scores you assign: How are they weighted?

Percentage relative to the highest number you assigned (the highest being 100%) ?

For instance, would
[200] Game A
[50] Game B
[10] Game C
[5] Game D

mean
100% for Game A
25% for Game B
5% for Game C
2,5% for Game D
?
Please explain.

[jp]

From what I'm seeing so far, I predict:
Radiant Silvergun will move down.
Dodonpachi will remain #1(sadly)
Battle Garegga will be the highest its been yet.

Why?

Why???

Why??????

1. Because Radiant Silvergun hasn't been talked about much here lately. If at all, its typically someone dissing it for whatever stupid reason. It'll be on the list, in fact, it'll probably be top 10. But I don't see it being 3rd or 4th. Despite the fact that you and I voted it in first.

2. Because Dodonpachi is very high on most voters list. And even if it isn't high, so far there's only a couple of people who didn't vote for it at all.

3. Because Battle Garegga generated a lot of conversation this past year, so more people have been playing it and getting into it. Its on virtually everyone's list thus far. Actually, if Battle Garegga gets #1, I will be a very happy man.

[Zach Keene]

I haven't participated before and I have a question concering the scores you assign: How are they weighted?

Percentage relative to the highest number you assigned (the highest being 100%) ?

For instance, would
[200] Game A
[50] Game B
[10] Game C
[5] Game D

mean
100% for Game A
25% for Game B
5% for Game C
2,5% for Game D
?
Please explain.

In your example you assigned a total of 265 points, so Game A would get a value of 200/265, Game B would get 50/265, and so on.

[Fighter17]

3. Because Battle Garegga generated a lot of conversation this past year, so more people have been playing it and getting into it. Its on virtually everyone's list thus far. Actually, if Battle Garegga gets #1, I will be a very happy man.

Seconded.

[Rob]

Is it unsettling to anyone else when someone adds a zero to the end of every number? I mean, why?? Talking about voting values here.

[professor ganson]

Is it unsettling to anyone else when someone adds a zero to the end of every number? I mean, why?? Talking about voting values here.

Either they think the extra zeros will make their list LOOK like it has items of higher value or they are confused about how the voting works.

One more thing:
I played Milipede for the first time tonight. It seemed slightly better than Centipede, so I may have to change that last spot on my top 25 list. But then I'll look like I'm copying Rob. I can live with that, though.

[Rob]

Me too.

The older lists are making it look like we're ignorant of shoot 'em up history. So Millipede for token single screen shooter on this year's list, I say. Galaga could also work.

[MadSteelDarkness]

I really want to vote, but simply can't until I get to play Ibara...