RGB to CRT and Framemeister to Record simultanously

[holaplaneta]

I want to play on my CRT at 240p with my RGB modded consoles with the following setup:

SCART RGB Cable with separate audio (audio goes to RCA inputs into a component audio system) > CSY-2100 (Scart to Component Converter) > Sony Wega Trinitron

And at the same time split the SCART signal so I can:

SCART RGB cable with separate audio > Framemeister XRGB-mini > HDMI capture device (aver media, elgato, etc...)

I have an aditional question:
Is there any way that the framemeister can accept both the video signal from the SCART input (RGB input) and the audio from the RCA inputs it has on the front, and combine them to output both in a single upscaled 1080p HDMI video with audio signal?

So basically I want to play on a real CRT TV and at the same time to record on my gameplay in upscaled 1080p.

I was looking for a 1X2 SCART DISTRIBUTION AMPLIFIER, but it seems that they are impossible to get nowadays. On the other hand I don´t want to take the signal after being converted to HDMI to downconvert it to component in order to connect it to my CRT, since the loss in quality sounds like too much.

Any suggestions?

[Fudoh]

I have an aditional question:
Is there anyway that the framemeister can accept both the video signal from the SCART input (RGB input) and the audio from the RCA inputs it has on the front, and combine them to output both in a single upscaled 1080p HDMI video with audio signal?

yes.

Any suggestions?

Micomsoft XSYNC-1, SuperG's GSscartSW or a just a Shinybow Scart Matrix - they all have two outputs.

[holaplaneta]

Excellent! Thank you very much sir. Your page is an inspiration and of great guidance to neophytes like me.

I really appreciate your help.

[Fudoh]

thanks! And do yourself a favor and get an Elgato instead of an Avermedia capture unit. The Elgatos play extremely nice with the Framemeister.

[blizzz]

The gscartsw would be an excellent choice, but it's so incredibly expensive. Personally I bought a powered Shinybow SCART splitter (1x8) on eBay for a couple bucks and it works fine.

[yxkalle]

No video output on your monitor?

[AndehX]

thanks! And do yourself a favor and get an Elgato instead of an Avermedia capture unit. The Elgatos play extremely nice with the Framemeister.

I can second this. I had an Avermedia Live Gamer Extreme and more often than not, it would blue screen my computer when initializing.

I now have an Elgato HD60 Pro, and it works flawlessly.

[holaplaneta]

After a lot of hunting for the suggested SCART splitters, and failing in getting one, I settled for this solution that I found on another post in this forum:

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p1046806

Quick update,
After doing some additional research, i found the Shinybow SB-3715 SCART Distribution Amp(1 input x 4 output) . After i seen the SB-3715 on Shinybow Europe and hearing about people contacting Shinybow USA to import SCART switchers, I've decided to give Shinybow USA a shout on importing the SB-3715 and they got back to me as said they can do it for 69$ USD + $48 Shipping (Shipping to Canada via USPS priority mail express). So the total with shipping to Canada was $117 USD which is more than half the cost of a Keene 1x5 one and should be even cheaper for people in the US. Works great, no loss in picture from what i can see and the XRGB Mini seems to like it too . If you get one, they give you a US power adapter so you don't need to buy an additional power supply. I thought it would of came with a UK power plug so i bought one on eBay for nothing.

So I emailed Shinybow USA about getting one and it seems they are now being sold officially in the US. Their answer was this:

They are already in the USA.
SB-3715
http://www.ani-av.com/shop/product_info ... cts_id=206

SB-5520
http://www.ani-av.com/shop/product_info ... cts_id=205

SB-5525
http://www.ani-av.com/shop/product_info ... cts_id=199

So that´s it. I´m waiting for my SB-3715 to arrive.

I looked for the recording devices you suggested, but unfortunately Elgato does not have options for recording without a PC.

I´m really thinking on getting the Avermedia Live Gamer Portable C875 or the Game Capture HD II C285, but I´m worried they might get better revisions soon, since these are devices that are already 2-3 years old. Any opinions on this?

[AndehX]

the 3715 is an excellent piece of kit. I have one myself (currently waiting to replace it with a GSCART) and it works flawlessly. Somehow it even makes my Gamecube work with seperated sync. Gamecubes are documented to not display when using a sync stripper, and mine indeed does not work normally when going through one. But if I pass my Gamecube through the 3715, it somehow seems to work which is excellent.

[holaplaneta]

Hey guys, do you know if the XRGB Framemeister Mini is good with the Avermedia Game Capture II C285?

Im about to order one and I was wondering if they would get along well. I wonder if I can capture at 1080p at 60fps with this setup.

I do need a standalone solution for capturing my retro consoles with RGB output since I play them on my CRT that is far away from my main PC. That is why Im not considering Elgato devices, they lack a model that can capture without the need of a computer.

Thanks for your help.

[Fudoh]

As far as I know the AVermedia Game Capture II can't do 1080p60 anyway. It's limited to 720p60 and 1080p30.

You probably need to disabled VSYNC on the FM. As least I know that you have to on the AVermedia Portable (the one that records to SD cards) and I guess they use the same processor within devices of the same generation.

[holaplaneta]

Thanks Fudoh, you are always of great help. I do not know what the community would do without your input.

I know is not as simple as it sounds, but for NES, SNES, N64 and GENESIS games would capture at 30fps be "enough"? Meaning by that, would it look good for most games?

Is 30fps the framerate of these old consoles on a CRT back in the good old days?

My plan is to eventually upload my game plays to youtube.

Cheers and thanks again.

[Guspaz]

30fps will look fine most of the time: not quite as smooth as the movement should be, but it looks fine.

The problem is flicker-based transparency effects. Ever seen a game where your character sprite flickers on and off every other frame after you get hit, to signify the invincibility period? On a 30fps capture, your character will simply disappear for a few seconds.

[Fudoh]

I think framerate is more important than resolution, so I would prefer 720p60 over 1080p30 when uploading videos (and I prefer to watch 60fps in 720p oder 30fps in 1080p as well).

[AndehX]

I think framerate is more important than resolution, so I would prefer 720p60 over 1080p30 when uploading videos (and I prefer to watch 60fps in 720p oder 30fps in 1080p as well).

I second this 100% FPS should always take priority over resolution. I could watch a 320x240 video at 60fps, but theres no way in hell I would watch 1920x1080 video at 10fps. Theres just no argument there.

[holaplaneta]

I think I found the solution for my needs. AverMedia is about to release the Live Gamer Portable 2 GC510 which records at 1080p60 and has a modality of being PC-Free. I only need to wait and see if it does record at 1080/60fps without the need of a computer or only with the bundled REC Central 3 windows software. Unfortunately the pdf manual you can download from their support page is severely lacking information about the device.

http://www.avermedia.com/gaming/product ... portable_2

I totally understand what you say about Frames per Second being more important than Resolution. It seems that with a little bit of luck I might end up having both covered.

Cheers.

[holaplaneta]

Just got my Live Gamer Portable 2, it just came out, so one could think it has a better and newer (maybe it does) processor that could handle the Framemeister as well as Elgato.

It does work well and I like to have PC-Free option since my CRT is very far from my main PC rig.

You probably need to disable VSYNC on the FM. As least I know that you have to on the AVermedia Portable (the one that records to SD cards) and I guess they use the same processor within devices of the same generation.

However as Fudoh predicted, on the Framemeister:
On the SYNC_SET, SYNC_MODE menu, it should be set to OFF instead of AUTO so the AVerMedia Live Gamer Portable 2 can recognise the hdmi signal.

Unfortunately as you might realise, this has a jumpy effect on some menus, screens and effects for some games (specially SNES ones).

Thanks, cheers pals.

[Fudoh]

So you HAVE to disable VSYNC on the FM to get it working with the LGP2 ?

Can you tell us what's the recording bitrate when using the PC-free mode ? On the old LPG the bitrate for recording on SD cards was incredibly low (compared to USB recording to your PC).

[holaplaneta]

So you HAVE to disable VSYNC on the FM to get it working with the LGP2 ?

Unfortunately, that seems to be the case...

Let me check the bitrate real quick, in the meanwhile I do have one question sir: My SCART RGB cables have the audio on separately RCA outputs. Before buying the Framemeister Mini, I asked somewhere that if I could connect the audio RCA to the AV IN inputs on the front of the Framemeister and the video through the RGB IN, and if the Framemeister would combine them and output them as one through the HDMI output port. I remember receiving and affirmative answer, but unfortunately I can't get the Framemeister to do this. Video displays fine, but the audio is missing.

Is there any option on the FM that I'm missing, so it can take the video source from the RGB IN and the audio from the AV IN RCAs ?

[Fudoh]

Is there any option on the FM that I'm missing, so it can take the video source from the RGB IN and the audio from the AV IN RCAs ?

yes, you have a menu option called RGB audio which you can use to toggle between the audio from the MiniDin input and the front RCAs. Definitely works - you just have to enable it.

[holaplaneta]

Can you tell us what's the recording bitrate when using the PC-free mode ? On the old LPG the bitrate for recording on SD cards was incredibly low (compared to USB recording to your PC).

Video
Frame width 1920
Frame height 1080
Data rate 21000kbps
Total bitrate 22557kbps
Frame rate 60 frames/second

Audio
Bit rate 1557kbps
Channels 2(stereo)
Audio sample rate 48kHz

[holaplaneta]

yes, you have a menu option called RGB audio which you can use to toggle between the audio from the MiniDin input and the front RCAs. Definitely works - you just have to enable it.

Thanks! I found it. You need to select VIDEO instead of RGB on the RGB_AUDIO menu.

Cheers Fudoh!

[Fudoh]

20mbit is kinda ok. Still rather low compared to the PC recording rate, which is likely 45+mbit on the Avermedia (and even 60mbit on the Elgato HD60 Pro).

[holaplaneta]

I uploaded a video at 1080/60p so you can check it out.

https://youtu.be/bmn6qheTBVU

I used Firebrandx's custom SNES 5X NTSC profile with the FM.

[Fudoh]

Could you do a test recording (about 1 min in length) of something that's smoothly scrolling horizontally at 60fps ? Parodius maybe or some other horizontal shoot'em up that doesn't stutter too much (unlike Gradius III). And upload that the original file to some file hoster (dropbox, sendspace or similar). I would appreciate it!

[scottmog]

Just responding to a post back in June. I have a Shinybow and love it, I am also doing the dual output via crt and framemeister and it works great.

The exact model I have.
http://www.ani-av.com/shop/product_info ... cts_id=199

[holaplaneta]

Could you do a test recording (about 1 min in length) of something that's smoothly scrolling horizontally at 60fps ? Parodius maybe or some other horizontal shoot'em up that doesn't stutter too much (unlike Gradius III). And upload that the original file to some file hoster (dropbox, sendspace or similar). I would appreciate it!

Would the Artemio Urbina´s 240p test of the sonic stage do?

[holaplaneta]

Just responding to a post back in June. I have a Shinybow and love it, I am also doing the dual output via crt and framemeister and it works great.

The exact model I have.
http://www.ani-av.com/shop/product_info ... cts_id=199

Excellent, thanks for sharing.

What would be the main differences between this Shinybow SB-5525: 6x2 SCART MATRIX ROUTING SWITCH (apart from number of inputs/outputs and price of course) and the "GSCARTSW" scart switch for retro gaming lovers?
I plan to get a switcher next and I can't make my mind about waiting for the GSCARTSW or just get the shinybow.

Thanks.

[holaplaneta]

Here are the videos you requested Fudoh. Thank you for your help and great work.

http://tinyurl.com/hs2pu7q

I noticed that the LGP2 records at H.264 which might explain the washed out colors and greyish palette. Anyway, I color corrected them in Adobe Premiere. (by eye and real quick, just to check out)

Here you can see the results, let me know what you think.

https://youtu.be/xeGV7j7GQFw

[blizzz]

Looks kinda like a full range / limited range mismatch. The outer border should be 0-0-0, but it's between 15 and 16 brightness in your video. Youtube makes it even worse because it somehow compresses the color range even more. Does the outer border look perfectly black on your TV?

And what's up with the jumpy picture in the character select screen of SF2?