PS3 CECHA01 PS2 480P Lag 1080P No lag

[EpicDave]

Ok so this is weird but I recently got an original 60 gig PS3 model CECHA01 with the PS2 hardware backwards compatibility in it. I'm playing on a 2015 32 inch vizio 1080P tv. The input lag is very minimum from what I can tell. That's not the issue. The problem well sort of problem is is that the PS3 when playing ps2 has input delay when running in 480p model. The ps3 doesn't upscale when running a a ps2 game that supports progressive scan or 480p. I'm assuming the reason it has input lag when in 480p is because my tv has to then do the upscaling to 1080p instead of the ps3. How ever when the ps3 upscales the ps2 games to 1080p they don't lag at all or at least I don't feel any lag what so ever. I tried out the guitar hero III input lag test just to see and when in 480p it averages out to about 20 to 25 ms of lag. in 1080p there is 0 ms. The games feel 1:1 also. Like when I played the mega man x collection It felt just like my Super Nintendo when playing Mega Man X3. Now I was just wondering why there isn't any lag in 1080p but there is in 480p on my vizio. Is it just that sony's ps3 scaler is better than my tv's? Because I read alot that the ps3's upscaler is shit and that even when using a CRT the ps2 games have input lag. I tested that too and there wasn't any at least from what I can tell and I do consider my self very sensitive to lag. I can't hardly play games like gradius or parodius if there is lag. Anyway if anyone has an explanation as to what's going on please let me know I'm curious.

[Guspaz]

It sounds like you already found your solution...? If you're playing on a 1080p TV, and there is no lag with the PS3 doing the 1080p upscaling, then just do that.

[HydrogLox]

Because I read alot that the ps3's upscaler is shit and that even when using a CRT the ps2 games have input lag.

The lag experienced is a cumulative effect from several sources.

• Technically a PS2 connected to a CRT via component 480i/p will have less lag than a PS3 because the PS2 doesn't have the display processing stage for scaling and smoothing. So the way to minimize PS3 lag (with a CRT) is to connect it with component and use the highest supported native resolution of the PS/PS2 game (to bypass deinterlacing and scaling), i.e. 480i or 480p and turn smoothing off.
• Hypothetically the CECHAxx, and CECHBxx models should have the least lag as they have the most complete set of PS2 hardware. The CECHCxx, and CECHExx models dropped the Emotion Engine which then needed to be emulated for PS2 BC - which added another potential source of lag. Later models dropped PS2 BC entirely - however PSN offers PS2 Classics which are the worst of the bunch as they are fully emulated.
• Low lag for legacy 480i/p resolution connectivity on contemporary consumer TV sets isn't a priority - the primary use case is to connect SD DVD players (or similar) - a situation where lag doesn't matter. When it comes to lower lag for gaming they would primarily focus on 1080p (and possibly 720p) through HDMI from 8th (and possibly 7th) generation consoles. On the PS3 side one would assume that at least some token effort towards mitigating 480p scaling lag was made during the PS2 BC portion of the PS3 life-cycle.

So in the end I can't say that I'm surprised by your experience that PS3 480p-to-1080p scaling outperforms your contemporary TV set. However you may find that lag will be more noticeable with games that don't support 480p as the PS3 has to deinterlace the native signal.

[EpicDave]

Because I read alot that the ps3's upscaler is shit and that even when using a CRT the ps2 games have input lag.

The lag experienced is a cumulative effect from several sources.

• Technically a PS2 connected to a CRT via component 480i/p will have less lag than a PS3 because the PS2 doesn't have the display processing stage for scaling and smoothing. So the way to minimize PS3 lag (with a CRT) is to connect it with component and use the highest supported native resolution of the PS/PS2 game (to bypass deinterlacing and scaling), i.e. 480i or 480p and turn smoothing off.
• Hypothetically the CECHAxx, and CECHBxx models should have the least lag as they have the most complete set of PS2 hardware. The CECHCxx, and CECHExx models dropped the Emotion Engine which then needed to be emulated for PS2 BC - which added another potential source of lag. Later models dropped PS2 BC entirely - however PSN offers PS2 Classics which are the worst of the bunch as they are fully emulated.
• Low lag for legacy 480i/p resolution connectivity on contemporary consumer TV sets isn't a priority - the primary use case is to connect SD DVD players (or similar) - a situation where lag doesn't matter. When it comes to lower lag for gaming they would primarily focus on 1080p (and possibly 720p) through HDMI from 8th (and possibly 7th) generation consoles. On the PS3 side one would assume that at least some token effort towards mitigating 480p scaling lag was made during the PS2 BC portion of the PS3 life-cycle.

So in the end I can't say that I'm surprised by your experience that PS3 480p-to-1080p scaling outperforms your contemporary TV set. However you may find that lag will be more noticeable with games that don't support 480p as the PS3 has to deinterlace the native signal.

Well that's the thing. games that don't support 480p I can't feel any sort of lag at all. like as I've explained before running the guitar hero III lag test in 480p non upscaled on the ps3 has about 23 ms of lag. having it be 480i upscaled to 1080p resulted in 0 ms from the lag test. I also tested several fighting games and gradius V on the ps3 upscaled to 1080p and I couldnt feel any sort of lag from it. So I suppose the upscaling on the PS3 is better than my TV. Either way I love the CECHA01 ps3. To me it's fantastic. The ps2 game look so good on it. I did direct comparisons from a ps2 with component cables to the ps3 upscaled to 1080p no smoothing and the games do look clearer and more defined.

[BazookaBen]

Don't use PS3's for PS2 and PS1 games if you care about lag, period. Even hooked up to a CRT at 480i, I was experiencing quite a bit of lag with PS1 and PS2 games, somewhere in the neighborhood of 3 frames.

Maybe if you try a PS2 game that supports progressive scan, and set your PS2 to 480p, you might get less lag, but I doubt it. I sold my CECHA model PS3 because of the lag. Used the cash to buy a PS3 superslim, which uses way less power and meets all my PS3 needs.

[EpicDave]

Don't use PS3's for PS2 and PS1 games if you care about lag, period. Even hooked up to a CRT at 480i, I was experiencing quite a bit of lag with PS1 and PS2 games, somewhere in the neighborhood of 3 frames.

Maybe if you try a PS2 game that supports progressive scan, and set your PS2 to 480p, you might get less lag, but I doubt it. I sold my CECHA model PS3 because of the lag. Used the cash to buy a PS3 superslim, which uses way less power and meets all my PS3 needs.

That's really weird because I'm not experiencing any lag at all at 1080p with any ps2 game I've tried. I don't get it. Some say there is a lot of lag with ps2 on the CECHA01 but i'm not experiencing any of it. As for ps1 there is quite a bit of lag.

[austin532]

I sold my CECHA model PS3 because of the lag. Used the cash to buy a PS3 superslim, which uses way less power and meets all my PS3 needs.

Not to mention a hell of a lot quieter. The original fats sounded like a vacuum at max fan speed. Plus they are almost guaranteed to YLOD no mater how well you take care of them.

[BazookaBen]

That's really weird because I'm not experiencing any lag at all at 1080p with any ps2 game I've tried. I don't get it. Some say there is a lot of lag with ps2 on the CECHA01 but i'm not experiencing any of it. As for ps1 there is quite a bit of lag.

Are you comparing playing a PS2 and PS3 on the same TV? I imagine your TV adds more lag for 480i/480p from a PS2 than it does for 1080p over HDMI from a PS3.

[HydrogLox]

I don't get it. Some say there is a lot of lag with ps2 on the CECHA01 but i'm not experiencing any of it.

There seems to be a highly subjective component when it comes to reliably perceiving lag.
Just have a look at the variation of reported experiences in a Gradius V topic. What's also interesting in this case is that some feel that the PSN PS2 Classics version actually has less lag than the disc version on the PS3 - which could be attributed to the PSN version potentially running 480p natively which the disc version does not (on a stock PS3).

[EpicDave]

That's really weird because I'm not experiencing any lag at all at 1080p with any ps2 game I've tried. I don't get it. Some say there is a lot of lag with ps2 on the CECHA01 but i'm not experiencing any of it. As for ps1 there is quite a bit of lag.

Are you comparing playing a PS2 and PS3 on the same TV? I imagine your TV adds more lag for 480i/480p from a PS2 than it does for 1080p over HDMI from a PS3.

yes im using the same tv. a 2015 32 inch vizio LED TV

[BazookaBen]

Are you comparing playing a PS2 and PS3 on the same TV? I imagine your TV adds more lag for 480i/480p from a PS2 than it does for 1080p over HDMI from a PS3.

yes im using the same tv. a 2015 32 inch vizio LED TV

Yeah, you gotta think about what's going on with the signals you're sending to your TV.

With PS2 over component, you have:

PS2 analog 480p>digital 480p> upscale to 1080p.

If you're sending 480i from the PS2, add the extra step of de-interlacing to the beginning.

Now with PS3, you have:

digital 1080p...

which is already what your TV needs. So it's cutting out all of the upscaling/analog-to-digital conversion you get when you play PS2.