4th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time! - Discussion thread

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 12:51 am

already covered above, so here's the link: http://www.classicgaming.com/shmups/xenocidefiles.html

cigsthecat · Post by **cigsthecat** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 1:02 am

Look at Gunbird 2 go! It's making great strides up the charts.

Hopefully Batrider will get more recognition as well this year.

I'll be saving my vote until I get some decent Ibara time in.

professor ganson · Post by **professor ganson** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 1:04 am

I think there are only a couple games I HAVEN'T yet played that would have a pretty decent chance of finding a place on my list:
Zero Gunner 2 (I have the game, but I somehow haven't found the time to play it)
Batsugun (must get this game)

I also ought to play DonPachi someday. And Elemental Master. And Ibara. And...

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 1:15 am

I feel like my most egregious lack of knowledge is in the olde arcade shooters (single screen or primitive scrollers). Despite the fact the few I've played have been fun ('pedes, Juno First), I haven't looked into more of them. And doujin shooters, which there isn't much I will do about since I'd just rather not bother with games at the computer unless it's a bit of MAME. Their overwhelming arcade-ness eases the pain.

jp · Post by jp » Thu Feb 16, 2006 1:16 am

Ganelon wrote:The Xenocide Files, your shooter collection, and personal recollection. AFAIK, there is no gigantic list of shooters on the web...

Anyway, I hope to see Tecno Soft's games shine. It's all about personal experience rather than scoring for me.

Word. I think 4 Tecno Soft shmups made my list. Though Thunder Force V did not... so I doubt anything I listed will make the final cut. Well, TFIII might. As well as TFIV. Blast Wind and Hyper Duel? Probably not.

jp · Post by jp » Thu Feb 16, 2006 1:18 am

professor ganson wrote:I think there are only a couple games I HAVEN'T yet played that would have a pretty decent chance of finding a place on my list:
Zero Gunner 2 (I have the game, but I somehow haven't found the time to play it)
Batsugun (must get this game)

I also ought to play DonPachi someday. And Elemental Master. And Ibara. And...

I think the only thing I haven't played yet that would almost definitely make my list would be... Under Defeat!

Well, OK, I can't lie, there's probably a ton of PC-Engine Duo shmups that would make my list. As well as some Genesis shmups. Doubt any SNES shmups would, none of those were really my style.

Ah well, wish I knew what I voted for last time. Actually, I think a link is posted for that thread, so I may go see.

Edit: Ah dammit, coulda just edited the other post. -_-

Alpolio · Post by **Alpolio** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 1:24 am

Ganelon wrote:The Xenocide Files, your shooter collection, and personal recollection. AFAIK, there is no gigantic list of shooters on the web...

Anyway, I hope to see Tecno Soft's games shine. It's all about personal experience rather than scoring for me.

I know about the Xenocide Files, but there are several entries that are supposed to be off-limits (according to the rules anyway). Such as Robotron and ... hehe .. even Contra HC. It looks to me like who ever came up with the rules didn't read the Xenocide Files. Or... they've got their own list. And if that's the case... where is this updated list? I'd really like to go over it so I don't make any omissions or include something that I shouldn't. That seems to be a fair request.

jp · Post by jp » Thu Feb 16, 2006 1:29 am

Whoa! Ganelon! I saw you voted for Blast Wind as well.

Rock on!

*final boss theme music starts up*

CIT · Post by **CIT** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 1:30 am

Alpolio wrote:
Ganelon wrote:The Xenocide Files, your shooter collection, and personal recollection. AFAIK, there is no gigantic list of shooters on the web...

Anyway, I hope to see Tecno Soft's games shine. It's all about personal experience rather than scoring for me.
I know about the Xenocide Files, but there are several entries that are supposed to be off-limits (according to the rules anyway). Such as Robotron and ... hehe .. even Contra HC. It looks to me like who ever came up with the rules didn't read the Xenocide Files. Or... they've got their own list. And if that's the case... where is this updated list? I'd really like to go over it so I don't make any omissions or include something that I shouldn't. That seems to be a fair request.

You can check the Triggerzone database: http://www.triggerzone.de/gamesdb/index.php

Very comprehensive, although probably not complete.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 1:32 am

Alpolio wrote:I'd really like to go over it so I don't make any omissions or include something that I shouldn't.

Why don't you look over your collection? Are there games you would include in a top 25 (you don't even have to go that high) that you don't own or would forget? Seems unlikely. Xenocide Files is to jog your memory. I use it for filler entries, honestly.

What you shouldn't include: just look at the rules in the topic. It doesn't matter if it's in the Xenocide Files, most people don't want to see Contra or Rez on these lists.

bVork · Post by **bVork** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 1:41 am

Dumb question about the integer assigned to each game: higher means I like the game more than a lower one, right? So if I give a game [10], it means I like it more than I give a game [1], right?

Zach Keene · Post by **Zach Keene** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 1:42 am

Right.

Ganelon · Post by **Ganelon** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 1:50 am

jp wrote:Whoa! Ganelon! I saw you voted for Blast Wind as well.

Rock on!

*final boss theme music starts up*

Definitely, jp. I had a ridiculously good time going through the paths and the pumping music didn't hurt a bit.

Not for the complex-scoring-system-obsessive but hey, these are personal faves and Blast Wind controls with silky fluidity unlike many of its similar vert. peers on the PS at the time.

Alpolio wrote:It looks to me like who ever came up with the rules didn't read the Xenocide Files.

Well, true, Shmups was more lenient years ago. As for a comprehensive list, the thing is, if you can't tell whether something is a shooter or not just from the title...then perhaps you may want to reconsider voting.

Anyway, there's very few shooters missing from the consoles listed (mostly stuff released after the Files's last update) that would occupy most folks' top 25 lists and, as Rob mentioned, even less chance that you wouldn't remember them already if they left such a good impression on you.

Alpolio · Post by **Alpolio** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 1:53 am

Seven Force wrote: You can check the Triggerzone database: http://www.triggerzone.de/gamesdb/index.php

Very comprehensive, although probably not complete.

Thanks. There were several shmups that I used to play religiously that I don't own anymore. Such as Spider Fighter and Sagaia. And I didn't want to forget any simply because they're not in house anymore. That list will help out a lot.

I still wish that it was an official list, but it'll do. If I come across any questionable games, I suppose that I could ask for an official ruling in this thread before I vote.

Neon · Post by **Neon** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 2:37 am

BulletMagnet wrote:
Blade wrote:RS probably never makes it to the top because so few people have actually played it or have access to it. But once you do, you're hooked.
Quite a few around here would probably disagree with you on that, heh.

I'd like to see Dangun Feveron make the top 25 on the sole basis that it plays like a Tweakable version of Dodonpachi.
I would disagree with you on that.

I would too. Tweakable DDP? They're almost nothing alike.

If everyone would be so patient as to allow BM and I to carry on this sub-derail just a few more posts: I'm not meaning to seem like a raving fanboy, I've just genuinely found no problems with the game. I used to think level 1 was dumb, since the medal rails are useless, but score attack mode validates their existence. What would you say the problems are?

Blade · Post by **Blade** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 2:40 am

Most of my shmups were voted on based on Cool Factor and Fun Factor. I have no skill with shmups whatsoever...although for some reason I can get a Perfect or Two in Radiant Silvergun. *is shocked at this* I don't even TRY to get chains in that game.

Post by **Shatterhand** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 2:52 am

I think I will vote for Blast Wind too... If I remember correctly, I voted for it last year.

Turrican · Post by **Turrican** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 3:00 am

Herr Schatten wrote:I think DDP is on top of the list for a reason. It's the "other" shmup everyone likes, too. So I'm okay with it topping the chart, even though I never voted for it myself.

Shatterhand wrote:Yeah, I think Dodonpachi is three times in the 1st place for a reason

I never said otherwise. In fact, DDP gets some points in my list too, which is rather tellingly.

btw everyone, I updated my first post with some random thoughts and more statistics, have a look.

professor ganson · Post by **professor ganson** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 3:29 am

Blade wrote:Most of my shmups were voted on based on Cool Factor and Fun Factor.

I also like: Addiction Factor, Depth Factor, and Creativity Factor.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 3:35 am

And last but not least: Max Factor.

I apologize for all of my posts in this thread so far.

Post by **BulletMagnet** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 3:43 am

Am I the only one who's calling to mind that segment from Kirby Super Star ("You earned experience points!...Friendship points!...Love points!...)?

Neon wrote:What would you say the problems are?

Having learned from my past experiences, I've PM'ed you, heh heh.

Thunder Force · Post by **Thunder Force** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 5:04 am

Feel free to edit your lists until the submission date if you change your mind. I've already had to edit my votes less than 24 hours after posting it. The competition gets fiercer each year as more titles become eligible. At this rate in 2016 we'll have to make this a Top 50.

And yes, I feel guilty for not including any Irem shooters this year.

doctorx0079 · Post by **doctorx0079** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 5:23 am

Out of last year's winners, which have been released in home versions and which ones never have??

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 5:28 am

doctorx0079 wrote:Out of last year's winners, which have been released in home versions and which ones never have??

haven't: Armed Police Batrider, ESP Ra.De. [excluding cellphone butchery, of course]

Post by **Shatterhand** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 12:18 pm

I find curious how Soldier Blade was in a very respectful 8th place in 2002, and then it never showed up again.

The same could be said about Gradius 3 and Gunhed.

Maybe the oldschool players aren't voting anymore? Or is it just that with newer games coming up, people just don't care about the older games anymore? Still, from an 8th place to nowhere is a big fall for just one year.

Ganelon · Post by **Ganelon** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 12:27 pm

Soldier Blade was mentioned a lot more during that time so likely many new people tried it out and had a lot of fun. And since it may not be quite so memorable a game in the long run (esp. given its relatively painless difficulty), its fans probably just got disinterested in it (at least enough to not rank it among their top 25).

Post by **Shatterhand** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 2:27 pm

I always vote for it.

. Yes, it's a little too easy, but it's an amazing game nevertheless.

CIT · Post by **CIT** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 5:07 pm

Okay, I had a look over the last years list again.

My conclusion:

- No PC-Engine love
- No Neo Geo love
- No Doujin love
- No Compile love
- No Toaplan love (yeah, yeah, I know Batsugun is on there, but we all know that was just voted for by Cave fanboys cuz they heard the dudes who make Cave games worked on it

)
- No Garegga love o_O
- No cute 'em up love (c'mon at least Harmful Park should make the list this year)
- Why is Thunderforce III better than IV!?
- What's so good about Donpachi!?

professor ganson · Post by **professor ganson** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 5:18 pm

Shatterhand wrote:I find curious how Soldier Blade was in a very respectful 8th place in 2002, and then it never showed up again.

The same could be said about Gradius 3 and Gunhed.

Maybe the oldschool players aren't voting anymore? Or is it just that with newer games coming up, people just don't care about the older games anymore? Still, from an 8th place to nowhere is a big fall for just one year.

Yeah, I know that my own list is really slanted toward more recent releases, 32-bit and on. And I'm not alone in this. To some extent this is probably due to people having a less vivid picture in mind of the earlier games, but perhaps more important is the fact that the best shmups from the past 10 years or so are quite a bit deeper/more complex than earlier shmups, so for a seasoned shmup player they have even more to offer. (Not that I'm such a player myself-- maybe in a few years.) Another obvious difference is the difference in graphics, but I doubt that this is so important to shmup fans overall. If you're a graphics whore, then this probably isn't the genre for you.

Blade · Post by **Blade** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 5:38 pm

Here's a question, what's the offhand chance that certain Shmup developers might actually read this list we produce?

In fact, who DOES read this list anyway, like what websites and whatnot?