OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

[Xyga]

Nice, did you try PAL linetriple and optimal modes too? The 50 Pro will frame lock anything in generic 4:3 or 16:9 as long as it's 60hz, PAL and optimal don't work though. PAL works in line double just fine though.

It works if I select 320x240 optimal mode yes.
Funny thing is that the aspect will look the same.

So the VP30 confirms 720@50 input, note though that it's still set up to output 1080p60 locked.
If I select 720p50 lock..it won't work.
720p59.94 works though.

The VP50pro can probably manage too, but it's messy because of its hairpulling preset system.
IIRC if you don't have both a 60Hz and a 50Hz 'generic' presets saved, it might not work.

But I'll check too later.

PS: struggled with black crush issues, might be because of the DVDO in the chain, dunno, but I had to force HDMI Full Range on the Sony W6.

[Xyga]

OK so, wait, it gets really weird.

I have only tried this with the MD2 but as I suspected the DVDOs can do it, though both get very confused at first.

- The VP30+ABT102 actually does unlocked 1080p@59.94 with 8ms delay (requires 320x240 or 256x240 optimal mode on the OSSC) this happends when you leave it to 60Hz locked, then when you're not watching it will select that mode by itself.
IF (!) you select 720@50 locked, it will work and the delay will be at 8ms, only then 1080@50 locked becomes available and it works perfectly, at 8ms as well.

- The VP50pro roughly behaves the same.

It's just fucking quirky. Also several times I had the cadence detection automatically tuning itself on.

What's more annoying is that AFAIK to get it to work you have to use the 320x240 optimal mode, which is a little blurry on part of the picture of course since it's not intended for a PAL input like that.

Again I've only tried that switched MD2, will try a Saturn tomorrow and PS1/2 later.

[BuckoA51]

The manual doesn't really make the profile thing clear. I thought that each input had separate profiles at first (so e.g HDMI 1 output profile 1 was different to HDMI 2 output profile 1), that's not the case however.

Also on mine, I had to put a HDMI splitter between the VP50 pro and the OSSC otherwise it lost picture on transitions, guess it just got confused as it switched to quick.

So are you saying that, for you, PAL line triple works on the 50 pro? Only at 320x240 optimal though right? Not really worth bothering with.

[Xyga]

So are you saying that, for you, PAL line triple works on the 50 pro?

Yes, 50pro and vp30 as well.
Just tried the Saturn it works too. But I'll have to try more machines outputing PAL, gotta bring some PS1/PS2 PAL games (all are in some cardboard at my parent's).

Both machines are just a bit capricious (no news actually) but when you're there and know the trick, no problem.
Maybe it's better to start with the DVDOs alreadly set to 1080@50 locked.

Quality-wise VP30 vs. 50Pro vs. W6, I must say they all look good, since the source is good nothing can go really wrong and you can take advantage of every scaler's strenghts and weaknesses.

Of course the 50Pro features the Edge Enhancer and Details Enhancer settings, and its scaling is already a bit better than the VP30's, so with it you can achieve the overall best picture quality, especially with linetriple.

But the VP30 with its neutral sharpness setting holds up very well too.

The W6 alone could probably do an awesome job with the linetriple mode, but it only accepts the doubling one.
Still, the W6 does a great job and its own featured enhancers actually help, playing with Sharpness and Details I could reach pretty satisfactory results, though not sensibly superior to what the DISPL offers. It's still only 480p after all, I guess there are limits to how good you can make that look.

[Fudoh]

The manual doesn't really make the profile thing clear

output profiles are universal - not per input. Picture settings are per input AND per format.

The W6 alone could probably do an awesome job with the linetriple mode, but it only accepts the doubling one.

I have two cheap HDMI to component boxes incoming to give it a try using the YUV input instead.

[akumajo]

hmm interresting, OSSC accept my weird groovymame setup

ex : Samurai Shodown 5 (Neo Geo)

video : 320x224 (59.185606 Hz)
switchres :2560x240p 118.371Hz 31.487kHz

ossc : rgbhv 266p 31.46kHz 118.30H
projector : 720x480@118Hz

[Xyga]

The W6 alone could probably do an awesome job with the linetriple mode, but it only accepts the doubling one.

I have two cheap HDMI to component boxes incoming to give it a try using the YUV input instead.

Excellent. hope all three will be good.

[noko_bombette]

There is some noise as diagonal lines (more visible in the big green leaf) when connecting my SNES Mini to the OSSC. I've added a XRGB-Mini capture to compare.


Playing with settings seem to have no effect over that noise.
EDIT: changed picture

[becker]

Hi folks

This is my first post. I have been reading this thread for the past week and finally got through all 49 pages. I am trying to learn about video encoders and have been unable to understand the role of the FPGA. It is the star of the OSSC so it seems vital. What does the TVP7002 do without being paired with the FPGA? I was looking for a solution to hook arcade boards to a modern TV and found the OSSC. Out of ignorance, my original plan was to hook a TVP7002 up like the datasheet example and expect a usable output. After seeing the OSSC, I feel like I greatly underestimated the complexity of video encoding. What is the magic brought by the FPGA?

[BuckoA51]

So are you saying that, for you, PAL line triple works on the 50 pro?

Yes, 50pro and vp30 as well.

Just will not work for me, it's not that I get no picture, suggesting a miss-configuration, it actually says "Unknown signal" on the info page. Maybe you're on a different firmware to me? I'm using 1.05.2.68r.

[Xyga]

Don't remember the number but I sure have installed the latest (turned all the machinery off for tonight now so I can't check the number) it might really be sine-qua-non.

That 'unknown signal' message; saw it many times before getting something, in some cases I had to power everything off and on again.
I think both the DVDO and the OSSC can lose it when a signal arrives unexpected or things just get too complicated.

I had that burned disc of a PS1 game patched with a trainer; the OSSC panicked completely displaying insane figures like '1638p yeehaa!' and changing every second.
So I took everything from the beginning, including starting the console empty and launching the game from the menu, and it worked (check below).

Always think of that kind of stupid stuff. Just switching between linedouble and linetriple may or may not trigger things like cadence detection, change the input/output levels, the framerate setting, etc.
Somehow it stops happening when you begin to remember the correct settings, the 'sequence' to display something, and do it naturally.

I know this isn't much of an explanation but a detailed 'guide' might require a number of big posts, so I suggest you begin with the firmware.

---

PS1 PAL test: got the dreaded Wip3out SE working both in 4:3 linetripled and 'widescreen corrected' linedoubled (can't linetriple the latter without messing the ratio apparently) on the VP30, I'm sure it works on the 50pro too.

On the OSSC side the 320x240 optimal mode is still absolutely necessary for PAL linetriple to work.

[BuckoA51]

I got it to work in 320x240 optimal mode but only by unlocking the frame rate. Not really worth bothering with. Shame as the Edge will happily display all line triple modes, PAL or NTSC. No extra input lag for PAL sources either, if you really like PAL material (I imagine that's a minority though) the Edge is the better device here.

Always think of that kind of stupid stuff. Just switching between linedouble and linetriple may or may not trigger things like cadence detection, change the input/output levels, the framerate setting, etc.

I'm not really having any problems with that, once things settle down the unit seems to remember settings pretty well. I've got OSSC on HDMI input 3 and it always does cadence detect off, 60hz locked, while blu-rays are on HDMI 1 and that always defaults to cadence detect on and the correct (last used) output profile. It took it a few goes to get it right but now it's 100% consistent.

[Xyga]

The Edge isn't special at all. Again I can lock the output on both the VP30 and 50Pro keeping the lag low with either PAL or NTSC linetripled. So it's really either that you require that firmware update, or there's one step you're missing in the process.

I've noticed the DVDOs kind of 'remember' some working settings after a while indeed, but until you've found what really works they can give you hell trying to force stuff you don't want, or block what you do.
The order of activation is key, unfortunately it isn't written in stone, like when I had to to guess for the 50Hz lock workaround.

EDIT: just to confirm I'm on FW 1.05.2.68r, same as yours and it is indeed the latest, so you should be able to do it too.

[BuckoA51]

The Edge isn't special at all.

On the OSSC side the 320x240 optimal mode is still absolutely necessary for PAL linetriple to work.

Make your mind up Edge will display and frame lock 288p line triple without needing to use the 320x240 optimal mode, which of course isn't optimal for a lot of sources (is it even optimal for any PAL sources?).

I'm on the latest firmware on the VP50 according to DVDO support and still can't frame lock PAL line triple, perhaps it's my TV that rejects the signal in this instance, but if it only works in 320x240 optimal anyway it's not worth worrying about.

[blizzz]

What does the TVP7002 do without being paired with the FPGA?

I'm also interested in that question.

From what I understand, the TVP7002 is an ADC (analog to digital converter). It converts the analog RGB signal into a digital representation in either RGB or YCbCr plus sync and clock. To transmit digital RGB over DVI you first need to encode the pixels into the TMDS (Transition Minimized Differential Signaling) format, which is basically used to avoid transmission errors over a longer copper cable. But to get a picture on a modern TV you also have to convert the 240p signal to a standard video format like 480p (line doubling), 720p, 1080p or 4K.

So for RGB Scart, the analog video first goes to the TVP7002, which does the quantization and sampling. The FPGA controls the sampling frequency to optimize 256px / 320px signals. The digital version of the input signal then goes to the FPGA, which linedoubles (480p output) or triples (720p output) it and optionally adds a scanline effect. The FPGA also handles the menu and remote inputs. The upscaled video is then sent to the IT6613 which does the TMDS encoding and creates a valid DVI/HDMI video signal.

marqs, is what I wrote somewhat correct?

[marqs]

What does the TVP7002 do without being paired with the FPGA?

I'm also interested in that question.

From what I understand, the TVP7002 is an ADC (analog to digital converter). It converts the analog RGB signal into a digital representation in either RGB or YCbCr plus sync and clock. To transmit digital RGB over DVI you first need to encode the pixels into the TMDS (Transition Minimized Differential Signaling) format, which is basically used to avoid transmission errors over a longer copper cable. But to get a picture on a modern TV you also have to convert the 240p signal to a standard video format like 480p (line doubling), 720p, 1080p or 4K.

So for RGB Scart, the analog video first goes to the TVP7002, which does the quantization and sampling. The FPGA controls the sampling frequency to optimize 256px / 320px signals. The digital version of the input signal then goes to the FPGA, which linedoubles (480p output) or triples (720p output) it and optionally adds a scanline effect. The FPGA also handles the menu and remote inputs. The upscaled video is then sent to the IT6613 which does the TMDS encoding and creates a valid DVI/HDMI video signal.

marqs, is what I wrote somewhat correct?

Yes, that pretty much sums it up. However, TVP7002 does ńot always regenerate sync signal correctly (as with pretty much all similar digitizer chips, it's not designed for low-res non-interlaced sources with potentially funky sync), so in some cases FPGA must also fix the sync on the fly. In addition to scanconversion logic, FPGA also has a soft-core CPU which controls all the other chips and handles user interface (keys, display etc.).

[ZellSF]

Finally got my VP50 (non-pro). It's behaving pretty well with the OSSC. Tried some Genesis gaming frame locked and line tripled. A bit laggy since I haven't updated firmware yet and can't disable cadence detection.

[Eretro86]

Hi all,

I'm very interested in using the OSSC with my Super Famicom on a PC CRT monitor. I see there have been some issues with the SNES and OSSC on some TVs and just wanted to ask if there are any known issues with setup described above. I would be grateful for any advice cheers.

[ZellSF]

More observations on VP50 & OSSC:

1: Input Level can only be set to Video, not PC. Sort of assuming this can only be used for RGB BNC inputs, because I can find no way to activate it with any HDMI input. A bit disappointing. Same for all DVDOs?

2: Fast resolution changes might result in HDCP problems (of course, with the OSSC you can just disable HDCP).

[Fudoh]

1: Input Level can only be set to Video, not PC. Sort of assuming this can only be used for RGB BNC inputs, because I can find no way to activate it with any HDMI input. A bit disappointing. Same for all DVDOs?

I think this depends on your OUTPUT setting. If you make sure your output is set to full range RGB beforehand, THEN you can choose the input level as well. Always has been a bit confusing...

[Xyga]

Yes I confirm, it's just a bit confusing but you can indeed do PC>PC level.

Note: I've had to force full range on the TV side as well.

[ZellSF]

Oh that's how that works. Still disappointing since I either have to convert between levels (obviously not possible) or have a source output via DVI flag that it's full range :/

Not the biggest deal though.

[ApolloBoy]

Hi all,

I'm very interested in using the OSSC with my Super Famicom on a PC CRT monitor. I see there have been some issues with the SNES and OSSC on some TVs and just wanted to ask if there are any known issues with setup described above. I would be grateful for any advice cheers.

Signal boosting this as I might be interested in a similar setup. Very annoying to see good questions like this get lost under all the ridiculous technobabble.

[lui]

Has any owner yet tested PSP output?

[RGB32E]

There is some noise as diagonal lines (more visible in the big green leaf) when connecting my SNES Mini to the OSSC. I've added a XRGB-Mini capture to compare.


Playing with settings seem to have no effect over that noise.
EDIT: changed picture

Here's what the OSSC more or less looks like with my 1CHIP-01. (Vertical lines added by image host processing - better image via download here).



From what you've described the XRGB-mini might be filtering out the noise you're seeing on your setup. What cable(s) are you using, and how was your SNES mini modded? Are you having this issue with any other sources?

[ZellSF]

Any chance for dedicated remote inputs for switching between linedouble and linetriple?

[BuckoA51]

Fast resolution changes might result in HDCP problems (of course, with the OSSC you can just disable HDCP).

hmm, I wonder if it was because I'd accidentally left HDCP on that I was having these issues too, I'll investigate.

[noko_bombette]

From what you've described the XRGB-mini might be filtering out the noise you're seeing on your setup. What cable(s) are you using, and how was your SNES mini modded? Are you having this issue with any other sources?

I've tested two different cables with the SNES Mini. One came with the modded console and the other one is the PAL RGB cable from retrogamingcables. The only difference is that the second one shows a darker image but noise is still there.

I don't know the details of the modding since I bought it already modded and I haven't opened it to check.

Here in the screenshot (please click to enlarge) there are other systems I've tested to see if they have a similar issue.
* N64, French PAL RGB mod, it shows a similar noise as SNES Mini, but in this case it is a moving noise.
* Megadrive PAL, OK, no noise.
* NES PAL, OK, no noise.

[BuckoA51]

Which PSU are you using with your OSSC?

[Thomago]

@noko_bombette

That's the same kind of noise I'm used to from my old Framemeister setup. Both my US-SNES and my Gamecube (connected via the DOL-013 Nintendo Gamecube RGB cable) where affected, but only if I passed on using a Sync Strike.
So I'm concluding this is a sync-related problem.