OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

[paulb_nl]

This may or may not be a silly question Marqs - is it possible to get XRGB-2 style alternating scanlines for use with "true" 480i material?

You mean scanlines that switch their offset every field? Certainly possible, but why would you prefer such for true 480i material? BTW, I just noticed a typo in the code that does break "scanline id"-option.

I would actually like a setting that turns off scanlines in interlaced mode and back on in progressive so it looks exactly like a CRT. Maybe you can combine those into a setting: 'Scanlines interlaced -> normal | alternate | off'.

[Fudoh]

I would actually like a setting that turns off scanlines in interlaced mode and back on in progressive so it looks exactly like a CRT.

on a CRT you get alternating scanlines with interlaced content. Each 240-line field shows the same scanlines you know from progressive 240p signals. They're simply alternated between the even and odd lines 60 times per second.

[Xyga]

You need another transcoder in the chain...

Thanks Xyga, a bit thin on transcoders here though

Well they'd be labelled as 'converters' anyway, but I don't know how you shop these things from Norway, do you guys usually search on prisjakt or something ?
HDMI>YPbPr are probably more common, that would work with an additional simple DVI>HDMI adapter I guess.
Probably requires to be powered though, don't know if simple adapters pass power...

[Das Muel]

You mean scanlines that switch their offset every field? Certainly possible, but why would you prefer such for true 480i material?

Yeah, given the lack of "real" deinterlacing I think 480i alternating scanlines are important. To my eye it adds a lot of definition (as with static 240p scanlines) and the image looks kind of blocky without them. I'd love to be able to match the 480i image of a PVM/BVM as closely as possible. If it's not too tricky to implement, I'd love to have the option.

[rtw]

You need another transcoder in the chain...

Thanks Xyga, a bit thin on transcoders here though

Well they'd be labelled as 'converters' anyway, but I don't know how you shop these things from Norway, do you guys usually search on prisjakt or something ?
HDMI>YPbPr are probably more common, that would work with an additional simple DVI>HDMI adapter I guess.
Probably requires to be powered though, don't know if simple adapters pass power...

Nothing to be found in Norway, I usually shop from eBay or directly from a EU/US/JP store, any suggestions ?

[Xyga]

Nothing to be found in Norway, I usually shop from eBay or directly from a EU/US/JP store, any suggestions ?

Something like that, plenty on eBay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/HDMI-to-RGB-Com ... Sw1KxXMaUE
But again a potential problem is that if you own the pre-assambled with DVI out, you also need a simple DVI>HDMI adapter, and I don't know if it'll harme the signal and power or not.

People say 'just use a converter/transcoder when the topic comes about the OSSC, yes we do, but it's definitely not a simple thing (and sometimes possibly quite tricky and expensive, like in the case of DVI+Audio>HDMI).
I my opinion before starting spreadssheets of compatible TVs and monitors, we should reference working and available transcoders and converters.

[rtw]

Nothing to be found in Norway, I usually shop from eBay or directly from a EU/US/JP store, any suggestions ?

Something like that, plenty on eBay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/HDMI-to-RGB-Com ... Sw1KxXMaUE
But again a potential problem is that if you own the pre-assambled with DVI out, you also need a simple DVI>HDMI adapter, and I don't know if it'll harme the signal and power or not.

I already have a simple DVI->HDMI adapter, might buy one to test HDMI -> Component, thanks for your suggestion Xyga!

[Das Muel]

Here's a couple of quick snaps of the OSSC on my pc crt (Compaq p1100 Trinitron, linedouble mode, PS2 slim via Scart with composite video as sync, cheapo HDMI-VGA converter). As ever, the photos don't quite do it justice. It looks amazing.






So far I'm finding that composite video as sync is a little more stable than Csync but it might just be coincidental - I'm going to try out composite video as sync scart cables to test the theory. With my Mega Drive/Saturn/Sega model 3 (all Csync) I get a few columns of (very slightly) less focussed pixels. These columns can be shifted/alleviated somewhat by using the LPF but are never entirely eliminated. 240p/480i transitions are fast but not instantaneous. This is all nitpicking, by the way.

[Xyga]

cheapo HDMI-VGA converter

Model/link please ?

I know it's one of the simplest and least problematic conversions but it's still nice if people shared the info when they have one that works.

Thx

[Das Muel]

Brace yourselves:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/iNextStation-s ... dmi+to+vga

I swear to God this little thing is a great performer. No evidence of black or white crush and momentary sync dropouts are very, very rare. I've even used it with my PS3 in the past (seems to get around HDCP). Plus if you smash it to pieces by mistake you can always buy another one. An HDFury is overkill in my opinion.

[Xyga]

Great thanks, how tiny!

[Fudoh]

just from a usability standpoint I prefer converters with a HDMI socket instead of a connector. The tiny one is meant to be plugged directly into a HDMI port and if you do it - along with the VGA cable - will put a lot of stress on the TV's HDMI port.

[Das Muel]

just from a usability standpoint I prefer converters with a HDMI socket instead of a connector. The tiny one is meant to be plugged directly into a HDMI port and if you do it - along with the VGA cable - will put a lot of stress on the TV's HDMI port.

Yeah I use a little female-to-female HDMI coupler with it.

OSSC - DVI/HDMI cable - HDMI coupler - HDMI/VGA converter - VGA cable - Monitor

[Bahn Yuki]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ST3B83kvtM4 Dreamcast in VGA mode due to people not believing how great it looks.

[SGGG2]

You mean scanlines that switch their offset every field? Certainly possible, but why would you prefer such for true 480i material? BTW, I just noticed a typo in the code that does break "scanline id"-option.

Alternating scanlines do a great job of creating faux detail with 480i titles, while doing double duty as crude form of anti-aliasing on 3D games at 480p. Give us the option for both!

[Omnigamer]

Received my unit in the mail last week; looks great, and so far it handles everything I can throw at it.

However, I'm having a hell of a time getting it to respond to any of my universal remotes. Out of 4 different remotes, only one of them has an NEC code that the OSSC responds to at all, and it only responds for 2 buttons. Is there something I'm missing as far as getting a codeset compatible with the unit?

EDIT: Managed to set it up through auto search, but that means I don't know which codeset it ended up going with.

[ZellSF]

Received my unit in the mail last week; looks great, and so far it handles everything I can throw at it.

However, I'm having a hell of a time getting it to respond to any of my universal remotes. Out of 4 different remotes, only one of them has an NEC code that the OSSC responds to at all, and it only responds for 2 buttons. Is there something I'm missing as far as getting a codeset compatible with the unit?

EDIT: Managed to set it up through auto search, but that means I don't know which codeset it ended up going with.

Hold down button2 while booting OSSC to reconfigure remote buttons.

[Omnigamer]

Received my unit in the mail last week; looks great, and so far it handles everything I can throw at it.

However, I'm having a hell of a time getting it to respond to any of my universal remotes. Out of 4 different remotes, only one of them has an NEC code that the OSSC responds to at all, and it only responds for 2 buttons. Is there something I'm missing as far as getting a codeset compatible with the unit?

EDIT: Managed to set it up through auto search, but that means I don't know which codeset it ended up going with.

Hold down button2 while booting OSSC to reconfigure remote buttons.

Yep, I did that initially. I can only get so far when only 2 buttons on the remote cause the OSSC to respond, however.

[marqs]

Yep, I did that initially. I can only get so far when only 2 buttons on the remote cause the OSSC to respond, however.

Try configuring your remote with some other manufacturer code (e.g. Toshiba TV), and then verify that OSSC led blinks with all the relevant keys you're planning to use. Then boot it up in the config mode and setup the respective keys. NEC IR protocol is not exclusive to NEC devices, so you have lots of freedom with the codes for your remote.

[noko_bombette]

I'm starting to test my recently received OSSC with a Sony KDL 42W705B TV. First tests with SNES.

Console: SNES Mini, Super CIC and RGB modded

I'm using Donkey Kong Country PAL to test.

There are certain points in the game in which the image brightness suddenly changes (for example, in Reptile Rumble stage it happens a lot): This is not a console issue, since it also happens in the emulated game. In those points, every time the brightness changes, OSSC led becomes red and image is lost for a moment. Only after changing Analog sync LPF to '2.5MHz: Heavy filtering', image is stable and it does not get lost. I've tested it with two different cables. One came with the modded console (I don't know the internals) and another is a SuperNES PAL RGB from retrogamingcables (sync on luma I think). The second cable appears to show more noise in the image.

[BazookaBen]

Here's a couple of quick snaps of the OSSC on my pc crt (Compaq p1100 Trinitron, linedouble mode, PS2 slim via Scart with composite video as sync, cheapo HDMI-VGA converter).

Have you tried line-triple mode yet? You should get some shots with scanlines on and off in line-triple mode. I feel like added scanlines on at 480p would look bad because PC CRT's already have scanlines naturally at 480p (and 600p and beyond depending on the tube).

[Omnigamer]

I finished my first batch of testing earlier today. VOD is available here, if interested: https://www.twitch.tv/omnigamer/v/69364626

All consoles tested were NTSC-US. This is also with default OSSC settings for any of the video processing (Auto LPF, etc). On display side, I was routing to an ASUS VN279QL monitor and an AVerMedia c027 capture card. Linetriple worked fine for the ASUS monitor, but the AVerMedia card couldn't recognize it. I have an SC-501 and an SC-512 as well, but have not tested those yet (I assume they're fine).

SNES (mini w/RGB mod): Worked great for everything I threw at it.
NES (top-loader w/NESRGB): Also worked great. Didn't have any issues for any of the games I tried.
Genesis (model 3 w/RGB reconnected): Mostly great, but ran into signal loss with Fighting Masters. It switches display modes between menus and fights, and each swap caused a resync of about a second.
N64 (w/ RGB mod): Worked great, no issues. This one I probably tested the least, but what little I did mess with was fine.
Gamecube (w/ component cables): No problems here. Pass-through picked up on the 480p when available and worked great.
Saturn: No issues. Some overscan artifacts when playing Deep Fear, but that's to be expected from playing a PAL game on an NTSC console.
Dreamcast (w/ VGA out): Worked great for the 480-based games. 240-based games put up a bit of a fight, but that's more a fault of the system than the OSSC.
Dreamcast (w/ SCART out): I need to do more testing here, but I used this as a fallback for the 240-based games. I had a lot of issues keeping sync during different sequences, but I couldn't identify what caused sync to go out. I was testing Jojo's Bizarre Adventure, and some sequences were solid, but getting to the character select screen killed sync and I couldn't get it back.
PS2 (w/ PS1 games and SCART): Works fine for the most part, but susceptible to resolution swaps. Specifically tested with Chrono Cross; it loses sync for about a second when going into menus.
PS2 (w/ PS2 games and SCART): Worked fine for 480i games. 480p over SCART did not work, but I guess that's on its way in a newer firmware?

I also tried a few of the above tests by first passing it through an XRGB2 and then using the OSSC as a transcoder to HDMI. The resolution swaps still cause resyncs with this setup, and they are still about 1 second. Using the XRGB2 alone for these tests also causes a resync, but for only .1-.25 seconds in my experience. I'll keep trying a few other things and report back if anything else turns up.

EDIT: Played around with DC over SCART some more. It works fine with the analog LPF at 2.5 MHz, but is iffy for the rest. I would probably chalk it up to a poor cable and my cable routing causing a lot of interference.

[Fudoh]

PS2 (w/ PS2 games and SCART): Worked fine for 480i games. 480p over SCART did not work, but I guess that's on its way in a newer firmware?

the PS2 changes from RGBs to RGsB when you run a 480p game with RGB, so you have to toggle the input config on the OSSC as well.

[Omnigamer]

That's what I thought I read before, but even on RGsB input setting it couldn't sync. This is with FW .69

I will try messing with it a bit more later and see what comes out of it.

EDIT: Apparently the culprit was my SCART switch. It thinks it loses signal when it goes to RGsB. Manually forcing it to the input does the trick though.

On the other side of things, Dreamcast is giving me trouble over VGA. The image flickers quite a bit and has some curious color bleeding going on in darker scenes. It could again be some interference/poor-quality cables, but I'll keep tinkering with it.

[Bahn Yuki]

Anyone know what consoles and games support optimal line triple mode? I've been trying with PS1 via PS2 SCART and I get an image but it de-syncs very often. Normal 4:3 doesn't de-sync at all.

[marqs]

Anyone know what consoles and games support optimal line triple mode? I've been trying with PS1 via PS2 SCART and I get an image but it de-syncs very often. Normal 4:3 doesn't de-sync at all.

The current optimal linetriple parameters are chosen for NES/SNES (256x240) and PSX 320-column mode (320x240). Until I manage to include sampling clock tweak option in the fw, those modes won't necessarily be good/compatible with other consoles. As for desync, does OSSC red LED light up or does your display just lose the picture for a moment?

[BuckoA51]

Could be that your display is just incompatible, some displays won't tolerate the optimised modes, but handle the generic modes just fine.

[Das Muel]

Here's a couple of quick snaps of the OSSC on my pc crt (Compaq p1100 Trinitron, linedouble mode, PS2 slim via Scart with composite video as sync, cheapo HDMI-VGA converter).

Have you tried line-triple mode yet? You should get some shots with scanlines on and off in line-triple mode. I feel like added scanlines on at 480p would look bad because PC CRT's already have scanlines naturally at 480p (and 600p and beyond depending on the tube).

The linetriple works well and looks good with my sources. The scanlines look a little bit thin to my eye, but it might just be me. On a PC crt the linetriple is slightly softer than the 480p linedouble and the sync is ever so slightly shaky with certain consoles. The pictures I posted above give a good idea of how scanlines look with the linedouble (I think it's preferable to the linetriple overall, but there's really not much in it). I'll take some pics when I get home from work.

[Xyga]

Received mine today, thanks again marqs!

Very quick test with switched PAL MD2 and modded PAL Playstation, scart RGB, both running in '60Hz'.

The two displayed straight away without issues on my old LCD monitor Belinea 2080 S2, but only a black screen on the Sony W6.

I have yet to learn and try lots of thing of course.

EDIT: mmh, nothing through a DVDO either, whatever I do. But there definitely is something going on since I can see the startup greyscale. And when I try 3x modes I see some reaction, though still only a black screen remains.
Suspecting a cable or adapter issue, I'm using a DVI-D single link + DVI>HDMI adapter. Again it worked okay on my super old LCD monitor using the DVI cable only.

EDIT2: PAL DC in scart with 240p Test Suite works.
PAL Saturn model 2 with modchip & switch works. It's even more stable than on any of my CRT TVs lol.

EDIT3: okay everything works on the Sony W6 now, figured I need to power the source/console AFTER the OSSC and selecting the input.

UPDATE -> Everything I've tried so far linetriples with ease and framelocked (6ms) on the VP30+ABT102. Will test the VP50pro later.

[BuckoA51]

Nice, did you try PAL linetriple and optimal modes too? The 50 Pro will frame lock anything in generic 4:3 or 16:9 as long as it's 60hz, PAL and optimal don't work though. PAL works in line double just fine though.