DOOM4/nuDoom/Brutal Halo/Call of Doomy/Brutal Quake 4 Thread

[Obscura]

The reason I dislike the game has nothing to do with nostalgia and everything to do with weak-feeling shooting. It feels like I'm playing laser-tag with the demons, not shooting them in the face with shotguns and rockets. I don't know if it's the sound, the enemy AI reactions, or the weapon effects themselves, but killing things has never been less satisfying.

[Durandal]

The reason I dislike the game has nothing to do with nostalgia and everything to do with weak-feeling shooting. It feels like I'm playing laser-tag with the demons, not shooting them in the face with shotguns and rockets. I don't know if it's the sound, the enemy AI reactions, or the weapon effects themselves, but killing things has never been less satisfying.

Partially because the visual and audio design on the weapons is inferior, but also because most enemies have more HP compared to the OG, so the actual impact your weapons have feel lessened

[Obscura]

I don't think it's the HP. You can one-shot imps consistently with a good chunk of the armaments, but it doesn't feel right.

Hell, even the BFG -- sure, you cleared that room in one shot, but something feels disconnected about it. Like it wasn't a powerful gun that just massacred everyone, but rather that they all just spontaneously exploded a bit after you pulled the trigger on your laser tag pointer.

[Obiwanshinobi]

If that helps, the weaponry of Republic Commando and Halo: Combat Evolved (both on PC) felt like a joke to me first, then - after about a decade - I found myself liking the games just fine. This kind of "wrong" might turn out insignificant after a while. Happend to me with Project: Snowblind too (also the PC version), where even the walker seemed like a toy (whereas The Chronicles of Riddick got it right around that time) - eventually I'd forgiven those things.

[Strider77]

This sounds like nit picking for the sake of wanting to dislike something. I LOVE my super shotgun... so meaty. I enjoy all the weapons except the pistol, but I hated the pistol in the old ones also.

I love this game but I love high paced action like NG 1 and 2.

And all the BS about this game not having color is just that... bullshit. This game has more colors than any of the last three. The 1st two games areas were around 65 percent made up of grey and brown walls and floors. I'm not knocking them, I love them but it's true.

This is FAR and AWAY better than Doom 3....

[Squire Grooktook]

Been watching some gameplay videos. Looks like decent fun. Could use more of the color blue, and it ain't gonna be replacing some of the better games of this kind, but I think I'll give it a shot. Missteps aside, I like that it looks like they're at least trying to make something fun (for once), and the aesthetic seems like it doesn't take itself too seriously, which is again a nice change of pace from most modern big budget games.

[Xyga]

I don't think it looks too bad, but I have a problem with how it moves, it's too twitchy, and at the same time your doomguy seems like he's floating. Weird.
Also wtf is wrong with the FOV ?

One of the things that make the original game(s) still so popular today is how rigid the presentation is, there's very few useless movements, barely anything feels 'smooth'. It's rough, concrete, anyone's brain can immediately 'find its footing' in such simple yet oddly natural environment.
I think this is what the new DOOM is missing.

[Strider77]

I love the way it moves... it's freaking fast. The FOV is adjustable, even on console. But I'm not sure what you're asking about as far as something wrong with the FOV... are you talking about my pictures?

[Durandal]

And all the BS about this game not having color is just that... bullshit. This game has more colors than any of the last three. The 1st two games areas were around 65 percent made up of grey and brown walls and floors. I'm not knocking them, I love them but it's true.

That's true, but that's not the problem.
Compare this screenshot:

to this one:


The problem here is with the muted color palette concerning the enemies. Each enemy in the OG had their distinctive colors, and you could reduce them to a blob of colors and still recognize them. This was important during large firefights, where having to squint your eyes to see what you are fighting is time wasted. Colors helped you immediately identify threats and respond accordingly. Descent, despite being a game with polygonal graphics in 1995, was built around the limitations of the time and used unique enemy shapes and colors to differentiate one from another.
Colors are what make enemies stand out more from the rest, and are what make characters memorable. It's why the OG with having two or four main colors for the background does not hamper being able to quickly identify enemies based on their color, thanks to the enemy design of each enemy. Even the brown Imp is can be told apart by its glowing red eyes and mouth, and white spikes protruding from its body. It's also why the OG looks more colorful than Doom 4. For comparison's sake, here are the imp designs (Doom -> Doom 64 -> Doom 3 -> Doom 4):



Doom 4 does try prevent this through sometimes giving enemies an unique colored lights which contrasts strongly with the muted backgrounds (too strongly, IMO). Art directors tend to go batshit with colored lighting and filters nowadays, at the expense of situation awareness. Which is part of the reason why Batman Vision is almost everywhere nowadays. Color diversity for enemies is not a huge problem if you are just facing one or two enemy types, or not facing huge amounts of enemies at a time, but it becomes pretty helpful for a game like Doom. Enemies blending in with the backgrounds is the last thing you want in Doom. Item highlights feel like a visual band-aid at times because otherwise you wouldn't be able to tell the items apart from the background, like the armor shards in the first screenshot you posted. Considering how SnapMap lets you paste an Instagram filter over your maps, I wouldn't be surprised if the same was done for some of the campaign levels.
You can still tell apart the enemies through their silhouette and movement, but there's a reason why traffic lights use colors instead of Battle Garegga bullets. Or you could do what Devil Daggers does, by having the player stay aware of the situation through the intelligent sound design, which is not something I think Doom 4 wants to do in the first place.
I guess a more accurate comparison would be that Doom 4 is to the OG as Deus Ex: Human Revolution was to Deus Ex. Piss-filter included.

[Xyga]

I love the way it moves...

Too fast for me, I've always felt it's more fun in FPSes when your character doesn't move like a super-powered ninja, and you have to consta-planify your shooting taking your more believable human speed and movements into account.
"who will shoot first?", "will I be able to turn around and aim before the foe gets me?", "I can't reload faster than that so I have to run in reverse shooting at the same time", etc etc.
I liked the limits in the original games, they're more credible and a plus in a FPS game environment. In the modern take on FPS games you don't control a character, instead it's you with a mouse and keyboard VS a 3D engine.
See what I mean ? People still like the the original DOOM because it feels more like a video game.
D4 doesn't move like DOOM.

it's freaking fast. The FOV is adjustable, even on console. But I'm not sure what you're asking about as far as something wrong with the FOV... are you talking about my pictures?

Yeah I sure hope it's adjustable! No it's more like people have weird taste the way they set it up, I've seen several D4 videos with a fishbowl effect.

[Strider77]

I set my FOV to 100 and left it.

I have to disagree on the speed. Both the old and this new one felt like video games to me... fast with no reloading. This new one does feel like an action game and that's why I love it. It's also why I liked the old ones. They didn't feel like a FPS as much as a action game to me.

I like moving like a super powered ninja... but I got that from the first 2 games also. I felt nimble and didn't have to bother looking up and down. I prefer weaving and dodging with no reloading versus realism. I just like speedy in the thick of things combat... and controls that are hyper responsive.

There are plenty of times when I run backwards firing for a bit before I dive back in. But I love my super shotgun so going in for point blank hits is what I do... I did that in the first 2 games also.

I have no problems telling enemies apart. I'm thrilled with this game.

[Super Laydock]

Reading all the positive responses on the SP (which is all that matters to me) and seeing all the footage...

this bitch is mine tomorrow.

[qmish]

SP?

[Leandro]

Single Player, I guess

[qmish]

Ah, i thought SP is some site or magazine that matters to him.

That would make sense as this thread has not so good responses on single...

[Lord Satori]

And all the BS about this game not having color is just that... bullshit. This game has more colors than any of the last three. The 1st two games areas were around 65 percent made up of grey and brown walls and floors. I'm not knocking them, I love them but it's true.

Let's see. At first glance, I can tell that there are 5 enemies the same size as you, one of which is glowing, so it's probably a different kind. Another one is gigantic, and the other one is a ball.

I'm having SUCH a tough time telling them apart.

You don't need bright technicolor graphics to make things different.

Adding color for the sake of color doesn't always work when you're trying to go for a specific feel.

[Obscura]

You actually just proved his point -- one of the non-glowing player-sized monsters is actually a different type of monster with very different behavior than the other four.

[Harpuia]

I feel like it would probably be more obvious in motion, if it's the one standing next to the glowing guy.

[Durandal]

I feel like it would probably be more obvious in motion, if it's the one standing next to the glowing guy.

I suppose it's the Battle Garegga bullets argument all over again, except we're not talking about bullets, but different kinds of enemies with different behaviors.

[Austin]

The single player on this game kicks ass. Finished it on Ultra Violence this morning and am a few levels in on Nightmare now. The game's not perfect, but it's still pretty damn good. The combat is immensely intense and satisfying. Graphics are superb.

[iconoclast]

Do they change the enemy spawns on the higher difficulties?

[Austin]

In response to other comments in the thread, the action in the new DOOM is very fast. Movement is fast and snappy just as I would like and it feels a lot like Quake III in movement, and that makes sense seeing who it's coming from.

Graphically, the game has a wide variety of colors but specific sections generally revolve around certain themes. One section might have a bluish hue all the way through, another will be a fire-like orange (the area with molten lava everywhere), others are pure red (certain demon fight areas), some focus a lot more on brown (Hell, primarily) and others are rooms filled with bright greenish tints. Different colors are always mixed in throughout regardless of the environment. It's not as wacky with the color usage as classic DOOM, but it's also not as sterile as Quake or other modern shooters. It's a good mix--there's color where it's needed, both for the environment and the enemies (i.e., when a Cacodemon spits its fireball out or when it opens its mouth, and when a Baron of Hell hurls a massive green fireball your way). Also, that photo linked above that shows a variety of enemies in one room (Cyber Demon included)--that's a mockup and is much more narrow in color choice than much of the game actually is (on a side note, there's no section in the entire game where you witness that scene).

Combat is fast and intense like I stated previously. The weapon lineup is excellent as well and each weapon has a good use depending on the situation. The single-barrel shotgun is not as good long-range as it was in the classic game, but it's super powerful up-close (I'm wrecking Imps on Nightmare in one shot). As a player you have to adapt to how things work in this game and not run in thinking it's going to play like classic DOOM. DOOM 3 didn't, so there's no reason to expect this one would either. With its fast action and chaotic fights, it does feel more like classic DOOM than DOOM 3 did though.

Do they change the enemy spawns on the higher difficulties?

Depends on what you mean. I'm pretty sure all the old spawns are there, but it seems like there are more in certain cases too from what I can tell. On Ultra Violence, the fights get pretty insane later in the game with a ton of enemies on screen at once. Some earlier sections on Nightmare are mimicking the later sections of UV a bit now.

[gameoverDude]

It seems that id likes the customization idea from Hard Reset. So do I. In fact some weapons here even have 2 alt-fires, switchable with the R key (good riddance to the reload key BTW).

IMO this is to original Doom as Shadow Warrior 2013 is to its OG counterpart. While the combat is different from classic Doom, it is not bad- the action is still fast and better than Doom 3. Ultra Violence sounds like it'll be fun.

The only problem I've ever had was a rare CTD. With a 3.2 GHz quad core and a GTX 980 Ti, I've been able to get a stable 60+ FPS at 1440p on maxed settings (V-Sync is turned off in game, since I'm using a G-Sync monitor). I haven't bothered with 4K, which probably would need the 1080. Sure seems id has seriously optimized id Tech 6.

I wouldn't mind a sequel to this Doom being on the same engine. Rather than waiting for id Tech 7, let them push 6 a bit further.

[Neathyr]

To all you people complaining about Doom 3: play the "In Hell" mod. It's much better than the original campaign (in my opinion, of course), the atmosphere shown in the original is magnified by a long shot here, and it gets bonus points for having the best representation of Hell I've ever seen in a video game. Period.
Sure, the Doomguy is still slow as molasses when compared to Doom 1 & 2 (which sucks... obviously), but I'd say it's well worth the price of admission.

Seriously, it's like poetry in motion. Not in a F-Zero GX or Alien vs. Predator kind of way... but in a Doom 3 kind of way, if that makes any sense.
It's obtainable here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2yCEzgexqo

[Ed Oscuro]

It seems that id likes the customization idea from Hard Reset.

I liked the idea, but the execution was a bit spotty at times there. Still, a good deal more engaging than Lichdom was to start, which also has a kind of "create your own one-two combo" system. With Hard Reset, of course, the issue is that the choices often seemed a bit too utilitarian.

Looking over these screenshots and reading about it again...well, I'm confused why Obscura brought up Necrovision! I took my thoughts back to the general "what are you playin'" thread, but basically, it is quite awkward to play and that unfortunately buries some of the goodness they were trying to bring to the table. Whatever new DOOM's faults, it looks pretty straightforward to play.

More to the point, the screenshots here look a fair bit like 2016 versions of the Necrovision (demo) areas I just played through, except that things do have sharp edges. The enemies are indistinct - I seem to recall DOOM III enemies often had this problem, but in total darkness they had glowing eyes and accents to point them out, so they still contrast with the environment. It's hard to know what to think of new DOOM with just a variety of beauty shots, juxtaposed with one gray cavern interior, but it's quite obvious that in that gray cavern, the enemies don't contrast with the surroundings very much. This is rather realistic, but it'll surely cause more eyestrain than necessary. Hopefully they'll put up a demo sometime; I don't think I'd get $60 of value out of this.

[Lord Satori]

the enemies don't contrast with the surroundings very much.

They move, while the surrounding do not. The eye is naturally drawn to movement. It's really not that hard to understand. If you can name one moving thing outside of cutscenes that could be mistaken for an enemy I might drop my argument. Until then, I think people are just grasping for reasons to hate a new Doom game.

Seriously, didn't we just go over this? By the way, if you don't know what to think of a game from just screenshots, look up some damn videos. These complaints could only fly back in the twentieth century before online videos were a widespread thing, and games had to be judged based on screenshots alone.

[Mischief Maker]

To all you people complaining about Doom 3: play the "In Hell" mod. It's much better than the original campaign (in my opinion, of course), the atmosphere shown in the original is magnified by a long shot here, and it gets bonus points for having the best representation of Hell I've ever seen in a video game. Period.

You've never seen Quake?

[Squire Grooktook]

Neither of those are how you spell Galshell/Yakouga

[Neathyr]

To all you people complaining about Doom 3: play the "In Hell" mod. It's much better than the original campaign (in my opinion, of course), the atmosphere shown in the original is magnified by a long shot here, and it gets bonus points for having the best representation of Hell I've ever seen in a video game. Period.

You've never seen Quake?

You forgot to put a little "r" in there. Now... Quaker? Sure. They make a terrific oatmeal.

While I particularly do praise 90's id (with Quake being one of the reasons why) the same way I enjoy both Epic's and Monolith's offerings around that timeframe... I don't know, this mod's vision of Hell gave me an eyegasm in a way I've felt in a long time. People like to rave about Metroid being "completely alone/desolation/eerie feeling" and stuff like that. Not that I'm in disagreement with said statement (and I'd be lying if I would, since I'm such a whore for the first game, Super and the original Prime), but this add-on took this whole concept and improves it tenfold. But that's just me.

As usual, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

[TJB]

The reason I dislike the game has nothing to do with nostalgia and everything to do with weak-feeling shooting. It feels like I'm playing laser-tag with the demons, not shooting them in the face with shotguns and rockets. I don't know if it's the sound, the enemy AI reactions, or the weapon effects themselves, but killing things has never been less satisfying.

Partially because the visual and audio design on the weapons is inferior, but also because most enemies have more HP compared to the OG, so the actual impact your weapons have feel lessened

A tad late but I only just finished the new Doom (UV) myself, I agree.

One of the first things I did was bust out zdoom and play through some cherished wads (ooh). First thing I noticed? Sound. I missed the emphasis when firing certain weapons, something I did not experience with the new Doom.

I might replay under Nightmare later down the track and see how I feel then, but so far... I had fun, can't complain really.

(Also thanks guys, I never got to finish Necrovision, I might go do that now)