What shmups should I get from Tokyo?

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Sanddragon
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What shmups should I get from Tokyo?

Post by Sanddragon »

I've recently gotten interested in shmups, especially the bullet hell genre. My boyfriend is in Tokyo and I can purchase games through him (he buys them, I buy them from him). So I aim to get some shmups, particularly games that would be difficult to get in the United States. What games should I get, given my budget, the consoles I use and my interests below? Just trying to give an impression of what I think I'd like, it's not like the game would have to strictly fit these guidelines. Or if you want to skip the reading you can just name a few titles and I'll look them up! I'll also be doing my own research, but I'm very new to the genre and I don't have much time (two days) to make my choices. So I figured I should ask for guidance.

Budget: The equivalent of ~$100-$150 tops including the shipping costs, but in practice I'll probably spend less than that.

Consoles: PS3, PC (it's not a gaming PC just a laptop). I'd also consider PS2 games since I might get one in the future. May also consider buying cheap games for retro consoles because you can sometimes find the consoles at a bargain price.

What I've liked: I got interested in shmups through playing the Touhou games. From what little I've played of Ikaruga I also enjoyed that. I wasn't so fond of Mushihimesama but then I don't think I have the skills to get the most out of that game. Blue Wish Resurrection Plus was alright but it doesn't really draw me to keep replaying it.
(I've been focused on college, I haven't played much outside of Touhou. But now it's summer).
So this experience combined with my interests below lead me to think I'd prefer bullet hell games, but I'm open to trying other types of shmups, particularly the more random reactive ones (I'm a little all or nothing) provided the game has variety.

What I enjoy about the games:
  • Problem-solving of patterns (So I want to avoid memorizing without thinking about what I'm doing)
    Close observation
    Some randomness, fast reactions and judgement calls mixed in
    Repetition combined with variety that makes each game different
    The steady gain of progress combined with challenge
    Good art and and good music but the gameplay is more important.
I'd probably prefer games with more complex patterns where most of the bullets are slower. At this point I've only got some normal difficulty 1ccs for Touhou under my belt, so I'd like to get something somewhat past that difficulty of those games but still accessible. While I want the game to be more focused on dodging than complex systems, I'm also interested in playing for score.

Thanks for your help!
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Obiwanshinobi
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Re: What shmups should I get from Tokyo?

Post by Obiwanshinobi »

Ketsui? I don't know the PS3 port's current prices, but I remember its bullets being bullet hell-slow. You can try it emulated on PC first, courtesy of MAME.
If you've pirated doujins (such as Touhou - nothing frowned upon around here) until now, you might wanna obtain some kosher disks, but - again - I wouldn't know how much they typically cost. PC version of arcade shmup I'd personally like to receive on disk as a souvenir is Raiden III, but it's quite opposite to bullet hell.

Keep in mind the US PS2 version of Shikigami no Shiro II (released as Castle Shikigami 2 there) is a cult classic due to its... peculiar localisation, and bullet hell at that. Then again, the entire series is on PC in Japanese versions.
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rancor
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Re: What shmups should I get from Tokyo?

Post by rancor »

Theres really no need to be "in Tokyo" to get PC and PS3 games. Most of the better PC games are available via some download service (steam, dlsite, or even vector) and used PS3 games are priced about the same in local shops vs. ebay..

Actually, sometimes they're cheaper on eBay:

Ketsui PS3 (used):

Surugaya: ¥6,450
http://www.suruga-ya.jp/product/detail/103002313001

eBay: $41.97
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PS3-Ketsui-Kizu ... 1631150699

The "golden era" is finished here.
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trap15
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Re: What shmups should I get from Tokyo?

Post by trap15 »

GAREGGA
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Vludi
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Re: What shmups should I get from Tokyo?

Post by Vludi »

3rd-5th gen games are still kinda cheap in Japan right? unless you want stuff like Hyper duel or Garegga of course.
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NTSC-J
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Re: What shmups should I get from Tokyo?

Post by NTSC-J »

In 2006, I bought Battle Garegga here for $20. It now goes for over $200.

For recent stuff like PS3 games, have your boyfriend check the Mandarake and Book Off stores, but if you have to pay for shipping, that will likely shave off any money you saved.

Honestly, if the PC is your main platform, just use MAME.
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chempop
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Re: What shmups should I get from Tokyo?

Post by chempop »

Touhou
stopped reading
"I've had quite a few pcbs of Fire Shark over time, and none of them cost me over £30 - so it won't break the bank by any standards." ~Malc
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Re: What shmups should I get from Tokyo?

Post by trap15 »

chempop wrote:
Touhou
stopped reading
What an insightful and useful post. Your contribution has not only improved this thread, but it's possible that it could reinvigorate the entire shooting game scene. Truly this is a post you should be proud of, and Sanddragon should thank you for the rest of their life that you could make such a life-changing post.

Oh wait, actually you're just being an ass. :roll:
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chempop
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Re: What shmups should I get from Tokyo?

Post by chempop »

No disrespect, but it's like OP doesn't realize that ebay, global shipping, or the internet exists.
Oh but you have a boyfriend in Tokyo <swoon>
I wasn't so fond of Mushihimesama but then I don't think I have the skills to get the most out of that game.
Give up on a game because you didn't win the first time you played it, I guess you could try the 360 ports since most of them have Novice modes if you feel the need to succeed without practicing.
"I've had quite a few pcbs of Fire Shark over time, and none of them cost me over £30 - so it won't break the bank by any standards." ~Malc
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rancor
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Re: What shmups should I get from Tokyo?

Post by rancor »

NTSC-J wrote: For recent stuff like PS3 games, have your boyfriend check the Mandarake and Book Off stores
Even then its only worthwhile if your time is worth nothing, and don't mind going from store to store (paying a train fare to each) with fingers crossed hoping they have what you're looking for.

Seriously. eBay. There's nothing mainstream here (PC / PS3) that cant be had elsewhere far cheaper.
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chempop
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Re: What shmups should I get from Tokyo?

Post by chempop »

Sanddragon,

There isn't much anyone here can say to help you that can't be learned in 5-10 min of research.

There are no $100-150 PS3 or PC bullet hell games that meet your requirements. Your comment about Mushi is what really baffles me, it's almost as if you aren't interested in the notion of practicing something to get better at it, which contradicts what the entire genre exemplifies. However, if you want easy-peazy-lemon-squeezy games, the xbox360 has a ton of awesome bullet hell games with Novice modes which are VERY accessible. maybe your boyfriend can find a cheap JP region console to send your way, or you could pick up a domestic one and figure out which games aren't region locked http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=23501

Good luck with branching outside of Touhou, I hope you can some day appreciate Mushi (since to be perfectly honest) maniac mode actually is a prime example of cool-slow-patterns-mostly-emphasis-on-dodging which seems to be what you are looking for.
"I've had quite a few pcbs of Fire Shark over time, and none of them cost me over £30 - so it won't break the bank by any standards." ~Malc
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Squire Grooktook
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Re: What shmups should I get from Tokyo?

Post by Squire Grooktook »

Touhou is really good though. One of my go to games for when I want some reflex/sight reading fueled action.

Let's see, based on your preferences, hmmmm

A lot of games you could order on the internet instead of getting them specifically in Japan, but I don't know which option would be cheaper or more convenient.

Here's some random recommendations for non-freeware games to buy, that you might like based on your preferences:

Mecha Ritz: Steel Rondo
-favorite fast patterns and sight reading, great flow and pace

Eschatos
-Like sight reading strategic but slightly random-reflex driven patterns? This game is the bomb like that. Lots and lots of slightly randomized but still cleverly designed enemy waves.

Gradius V
-If you like Ikaruga, you'll probably love the creative boss attacks and set-pieces in here. Made by the same guys as Ikaruga.

Hellsinker
-Unique atmosphere, weapon systems, and mechanics. Not so much of a bullet sight reading experience IMO, but if you like nice art/music and figuring out a game's system without too much hardcore memorization, you might enjoy this.



Also it's pc only and freeware, so not something you'd want to buy in Japan,but do consider Cho Ren Sha 68k. Very beginner friendly and my favorite shmup ever alongside Rayforce. Speaking of which, be sure to give some games a try in emulators. Trap mentioned Battle Garegga, which is very good. And again, if you like Ikaruga, you can't go wrong emulating its Saturn prequel, Radiant Silvergun.
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copy-paster
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Re: What shmups should I get from Tokyo?

Post by copy-paster »

Sanddragon wrote:PS2 games
DoDonPachi Dai-Ou-Jou.
Sanddragon
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Re: What shmups should I get from Tokyo?

Post by Sanddragon »

Hm, so I guess for most of these suggestions I probably won’t get them imported but get more of them here. I did find some links which might point me to games to import if I opt to get any, which is good. Anyway, there are some really good suggestions here. Hellsinker and Gradius V looked like they might be particularly interesting. I’ve wanted to try out the Dai-Ou-Jou (EDIT: DonPachi. I'm operating on 3 hours sleep) series of games, which is among other things why I’ve considered getting a PS2. Wish I could get Garegga, but from the comments here it sounds like it could be pretty pricey in Japan now. Will try out Cho Ren Sha 68k.

And finally in response to Chempop,
This response is pretty wordy – I’ve never been much a summarizer. Probably not worth the time for most people to read, but if anything I said in my post bugged anyone then pretty much this might clear up any misinterpretations of what I was saying without dropping the blocks of text in the middle of my original topic.
Spoiler
I’m well aware I can purchase games on steam, on amazon.co.jp, PlayStation network, on reseller sites etc. But apparently as far as importing goes, shipping might be cheaper if he gets the games than if I bought them online. I’m also aware some shmups have only been released in Japan. I was concerned that some games wouldn’t have a presence on the online market.

Given what I just said, games that are harder to get here seemed like specialty info that might take more digging than the first results of google. I knew where to look if I wanted to know the most popular titles, but I didn’t want to miss some obscure or hard to get gem.
Oh but you have a boyfriend in Tokyo <swoon>
Don’t know what your implying. It was a statement of fact about the situation - my boyfriend is in Tokyo on a trip, not bragging or what have you.
Your comment about Mushi is what really baffles me, it's almost as if you aren't interested in the notion of practicing something to get better at it, which contradicts what the entire genre exemplifies. However, if you want easy-peazy-lemon-squeezy games…”
I suppose you mean well when you advise me to get Xbox live games and play novice mode, so I appreciate the legit advice mixed in there - though I’m not interested in playing novice mode unless there’s some decent challenge involved. I think you misunderstand me when I said “I wasn't so fond of Mushihimesama but then I don't think I have the skills to get the most out of that game.

What I don’t mean is “I don’t like it because it’s too hard, I’m not instantly super good at it”

I am perfectly willing to and enjoy practicing to get better. At this point, I’ve spent several hundred hours each on several of the Touhou games, and I always try to see what I can do better.

The problem is more that, with Mushihimesama, I don’t currently have that hook that motivates me to spend much time playing it. Normal mode is pretty far from what I’m looking for in a game. You do have a point about maniac mode being closer to my play style, but nonetheless, for both modes it has previously been hard to see what I am supposed to do other than stream and memorize enemy locations instead of strategizing.

But I knew that the games are well regarded. So I figured it might be like how when I played Touhou at first I thought it was a game of reflexes rather than a game involving planning and memorization. So for Mushihimesama I might be missing some understanding of how to play shmups that would help give me more complex gameplay and enjoy it, like how to approach going for a scoring run and stuff. Hence why I thought a more skilled person might get more out of the game. Albeit I’ve been getting a little more sense of the games - I'm guessing I need to memorize more and focus on bullet canceling in order to get the problem solving and variety I like
Good luck with branching outside of Touhou, I hope you can some day appreciate Mushi… seems to be what you are looking for.
Thanks, I might well come to like the game in the future. I often have a beginning phase when I start games where I don’t like it but then it clicks and I get really into it. So I'm still going to try to play Mushihimesama.
EDIT: Put response to chempop in spoiler tags so it doesn't take up half the page.
EDIT2: Oh and I meant it but forgot to say it directly - thanks everyone.
usukane
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Re: What shmups should I get from Tokyo?

Post by usukane »

Get a dreamcast and have him grab some dc shmups.. Last time I was out there bought 4 games for crazy cheap prices including twinkle star sprites border down radigy and ikaruga. Otherwise if that's not an option have him track down cave collection cannot go wrong there!
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