Samplers

[szycag]

I remember the first time I ever heard about one of these was an article on Grand Royal's website in 2000. Ad Rock of the Beastie Boys along with their drummer AWOL had recently finished an album made completely on the MPC 2000 XL, under the name BS2000. Akai changed the sampling game with that line, the buttons were so velocity sensitive that they would register a fly landing on it (don't quote me on that) but were obviously made to take being hammered on. So many hiphop albums have been made using just one of these, a microphone and a 2 channel mixer.

They've come a long way (notice the floppy disk drive on that pic.) The ones I see now are USB and contain no actual hardware other than what it takes to send the midi signals from the buttons and knobs to a computer. You can download free apps that let you use your touchscreen the same way you'd use one of these, but just on-off of course.

I've always wanted to buy one, but obviously back in 2000 they were expensive pieces of kit for a studio setup. Does anyone know the best thing to get, now that there are Akai USB pads in the $99 range? Do any of you have experience making music on one? Are there more things to consider than just how the buttons feel? I don't know why I haven't gotten one before now, I play the drums and I make music with FL Studio, so it seems like I'd be already ready to go on one.

[Xyga]

My neighbour has one with more lights than a christmas tree, can't remember the name/brand.

Seems a bit ridiculous how these things make it sound, I mean if the samples registered are synced to the beat anyway, you can't really miss even if you hit the pads with no sense of rhythm at all.

Next to software those seem a bit superfluous, like expensive toys maybe ?

[szycag]

You're talking about quantization, that's something you can turn up, down and off. The less you have, the more human it's going to sound. If you were going to record an advertisement or something, you'd play the piano part into a computer and then quantise it, because it snaps it all to a grid and makes it sound like you're better than you are.

The most innovative/experimental stuff would be drum tracks layered on top of each other that didn't adhere to a grid at all, and might end up having an odd time signature, and that's stuff that's hard to sit and sequence out on a computer. You would need this for something like that, and that's the sort of stuff I like, jazz/fusion/progrock and whatever.

[TJB]

I used to have a Korg ESX that was a lot of fun to play with, you'd be surprised just how crafty you could be with the unit. Recently sold it though, music production (dickery more like) wasn't for me.

This fellow played a role in influencing me to go out and pick one up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3NebRoWMAQ

[Cee]

My neighbour has one with more lights than a christmas tree, can't remember the name/brand.

Seems a bit ridiculous how these things make it sound, I mean if the samples registered are synced to the beat anyway, you can't really miss even if you hit the pads with no sense of rhythm at all.

Next to software those seem a bit superfluous, like expensive toys maybe ?

I don't think i've read anything quite as painfully clueless in my life. I mean obviously it can be an expensive toy in the hands of the amateur just messing around but aside from that they are extremely useful pieces of hardware for any kind of producer and hardware often just feels nicer to work with than mouse clicking in a DAW all the time. Having an ear for good samples and visualizing/developing how you will use them is a skill in itself.

[Xyga]

I don't think i've read anything quite as painfully clueless in my life.

Well of course I'm clueless, I'm the layman here since I don't do electronic music, you may have missed terms like 'seems' and 'maybe' in my post and just decided to be offensive.
Anyway yes I've seen a number of people buying those and just make fart noises hitting dem pads and think they were good, that's common, checking youtube you might notice several of those also.

[Satan]

I use a Korg Pad Kontrol and Abelton's Sampler/Simpler to great effect on many tracks I've deleted.
It's a lot of fun, but I don't actually sample. I just wanted to learn the techniques.

[STG]

Not only were they used extensively in US hip hop production in the early nineties, but in the UK when jungle was coming up, they were also responsible for the signature time stretching sound used on the amen break and transforming a reversed/halved 808 kick into dred bass. But I believe the rack mount S900/S950 was more in use.

Do any of you have experience making music on one?

Yep, I make all mine on a fully loaded MPC2500. It's quite fun!

[emphatic]

The EMU SP-1200 is very cool: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MpB55sdX_g & https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBy94h_ZO1A

[zinger]

As I am sure you already know, the MPC packs several components into one package, most importantly: sequencer, sampler and a control device (the pads). Some models feature DSP effects, and I think the 5000 even packs a soft synth under its hood! If you already own a PC with a DAW, maybe the best and cheapest option would be to get a USB control unit that feels good?

There are a million things to consider when chosing what gear to work with though, depending on what you want to do and what your personal preferences are. There's never a device that's the "best thing to get" for everyone -- it all depends. I used to own an MPC2500, and I enjoyed working in a PC-free environment because of how your workflow changes, which can sometimes spark a different kind of creativity. For the music I usually make, it was pretty frustrating not to have the ability to edit MIDI data or process samples with same precision and ease that my PC setup provides. I'm no drummer though -- I'm used to programming my music note by note using tracker software -- so I assume an MPC would suit someone like you far better. Some people say that the sequencers on the MPC (as well as on the Atari ST) have a "tighter" sound than modern DAWs; maybe that's only when they are used for controlling external MIDI gear, but I can't really comment on that anyway. I guess USB control devices would have more input lag though? Anyway the 1000 and 2500 models are pretty cheap nowadays (the 3000 not so much:)), and probably won't drop in price either (?), so you could probably get one and try it out for a couple of months, and then sell it again without losing any money if not satisfied. They are obviously very powerful machines (that have produced tons of great music), and definitely worth a try in my book.

If I had the cash, I'd get an SP-1200 or MPC60 because of how nicely their sampling engines seem to color the sound (another thing to consider when buying a sampler), but for now I'll stick to my PC setup, which suits my style better anyway.

[Obiwanshinobi]

I heard about 'em in the nineteen-nineties, and saw the word printed in a Polish 'eighties casette's booklet. Am I cool now?

[qmish]

I have Roland SP404SX, though i used it more as effect processor for guitar and as a recording device. Though currently i gave it to some of my friends... So when i have my fingerdrumming desire i fire up MPC app on my tablet which has both "+" and "-" comparing to hardware.

[Satan]

Do hardware samplers add any colour to justify going 'backwards' to a sampler rather than a plug in and a controller?

[emphatic]

Do hardware samplers add any colour to justify going 'backwards' to a sampler rather than a plug in and a controller?

They do colour the sound, example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VACNZ7XQVz4 There are plugins with which you can achieve similar results of course, but probably not as immediate to use.

[Satan]

I do love Vintage Warmer 2. I think that's probably the best plug in of any sort, on the market.

[szycag]

I'm looking at an M-Audio Oxygen 49 key keyboard, it has eight drum keys in the corner, sliders you could turn backing tracks up and down, etc. Seems like all you could need to add the keyboard element, and I'm sure the pitch/mod wheels could even do cool stuff while I finger drum, especially if I'm cueing up breakbeat cue points, where otherwise I'd just have knobs.

Akai has their MPK series, and there is also the Alesis VI49 which had a full 16 drum key set. But the Guitar Center guy informed me Oxygen being an industry standard means ready to go presets on any software you jump into. Plus those generally require AC power and the Oxygen can be powered by USB bus. EDIT: On second thought, what does it matter, if I'm doing it right I'll link it all to what I want and get creative.

See I already have a Behringer UMX250 that's red and gorgeous, but 25 keys feels cramped to me. Maybe if I used it AND a new MPK that was only 25 keys... there's just so many options! Appreciate your input guys, but no closer to knowing what I want to buckle down on, other than the Oxygen seems like value for the money.

EDIT

I caved and bought the Akai MPK Mini II. I can keep the pretty shiny Behringer, use it's pitch and mod wheels, and have all the features of the MPK like that little joystick thing. Just use two MIDI controllers! A novel concept. I think I made a good decision. I'm building a little studio.

[qmish]

a number of people buying those and just make fart noises

Are you sure you not talking about modular synths

Joking aside, i think this "problem" is universal for nearly any music instrument.

[szycag]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXwVQADYcx8

How to use one of these as a live instrument. Jeremy Ellis. Many more vids out there that are produced (some advertising the Maschine) and stuff like that, but this is raw and a lot like what I saw when I saw him live opening up for Q-Bert.