Fudoh's ode to old display technology

[amaradona]

After few years in tate, i am running into few issues with my pc crt.
The screen flickers when in vertical but it is ok when the monitor is back on yoko.
Shall i try to open it, after carefully discharged it, and found out if it is related to the neck board? Or it is already too late?

Depends on how bad the flickering is. If it's light, it could just be from another electronic device in the room, like speakers or another CRT.

it is quite heavy to be honest...might be a loose part around the neck board.

[bobrocks95]

I don't know how well this conforms to the topic on hand, but since Fudoh and others know their plasmas well, what opinions do you guys have on the Pioneer PDP-434CMX? It's 1024x768 16:9 which makes me uneasy, but I recall that in the samsung 720p plasma thread from a while back, this resolution can still make SD signals look great if they're processed well. In doing some research it seems that I can send 480i signals to it with the analog RGB board PDA-5003, so I can at the very least HOPE that it will understand a 240p signal.

What advantage do you think it offers over a newer display? Just that it's a low resolution? Might as well go for a 854x480 EDTV if that's what you want.

[Einzelherz]

I don't know how well this conforms to the topic on hand, but since Fudoh and others know their plasmas well, what opinions do you guys have on the Pioneer PDP-434CMX? It's 1024x768 16:9 which makes me uneasy, but I recall that in the samsung 720p plasma thread from a while back, this resolution can still make SD signals look great if they're processed well. In doing some research it seems that I can send 480i signals to it with the analog RGB board PDA-5003, so I can at the very least HOPE that it will understand a 240p signal.

What advantage do you think it offers over a newer display? Just that it's a low resolution? Might as well go for a 854x480 EDTV if that's what you want.

Mostly that it's low res, cheap, and local. I've never even seen an EDTV, save for maybe some early LCDs (assuming they weren't just SDTVs). I hope that it would be able to process the 240p signal well and get somewhere near the nice V402 in the oringal post in this thread. It'd be around a $75 experiment but I can't find very much information on it save for a couple of unhelpful avforums posts.

[DrKingSchultz]

Hi, I found an ever elusive Sony bvm-20f1e for sale, but the price is I always wanted one after reading fudoh's review on them

I just wanted to see what a few of the experts in here had to say about the picture quality and the overall condition, along with what they think it is worth..

The run time is 27k hours.

Here's a link to the monitor.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sony-bvm-20f1 ... SwAvJXAbMB

And a YouTube video of it running.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUzZVk3brSI&app=desktop

Let me know your thoughts, it'd be greatly appreciated, thank you.

[Fudoh]

you're crazy to consider paying this kind of money for a 20" screen.

[DrKingSchultz]

Ha ha the man himself, so do you see any issues with the set Fudoh? Yes the price is indeed eye watering.. What would a sane man such as yourself consider paying for this monitor?

[Fudoh]

I think the pin cushion setting isn't perfect, but otherwise it looks very good.

I paid less than 200 EUR for each of the four BVM I had. I know the prices have increased since, but I would seriously cap it at 350 EUR or so - unless it's a 31khz capable set (D20).

[waiwainl]

That would be quite steep for a 20". Seems like one of the Ebay-I-want-to-see-if-anybody-bites ripoffs.
I got both my 20"'s for around 100 euro last year.

[DrKingSchultz]

Thank you both for the very informative replies, I'll make him an offer and report back with my findings, thank you once again for your time and help.

[DatPhosphorGlow]

BVM D20 vs D24.

Any drawbacks to the flat panel 16:9 D24 when comparing to the round tube 4:3 D20?

I know in 4:3 mode the D24's screen will be 30mm smaller than the D20, but other than that?

Want to purchase my last BVM for the long haul, been enjoying my D14 but want to go bigger.

[DatPhosphorGlow]

When using the 240P Test Suite with a Dreamcast and and RGB Scart cable, will the RGB cable be able to carry a 480P signal to execute 480P testing?

[Einzelherz]

When using the 240P Test Suite with a Dreamcast and and RGB Scart cable, will the RGB cable be able to carry a 480P signal to execute 480P testing?

I didn't think the Dreamcast would output 480p unless a special VGA doodle was hooked up to it telling it that 480p was ok? I know on mine, it'll only do 480i.

[arcade-stg]

BVM D20 vs D24.

Any drawbacks to the flat panel 16:9 D24 when comparing to the round tube 4:3 D20?

I know in 4:3 mode the D24's screen will be 30mm smaller than the D20, but other than that?

Want to purchase my last BVM for the long haul, been enjoying my D14 but want to go bigger.

I am not sure, but the D20 has 16:9 mask by default? If you are going to play 4:3 games, sourcing a 4:3 mask may be quite hard, right?

[BazookaBen]

So have any of you guys with 16:9 BVM's experienced uneven phosphor wear from playing lots of 4:3 games?

[atheistgod1999]

So have any of you guys with 16:9 BVM's experienced uneven phosphor wear from playing lots of 4:3 games?

I wonder the same thing about playing lots of 240p games on a 4:3 15KHz CRT with visible (un)scan(ned)-lines.

[DatPhosphorGlow]

When using the 240P Test Suite with a Dreamcast and and RGB Scart cable, will the RGB cable be able to carry a 480P signal to execute 480P testing?

I didn't think the Dreamcast would output 480p unless a special VGA doodle was hooked up to it telling it that 480p was ok? I know on mine, it'll only do 480i.

That makes sense, did you attempt a 480p signal on 240P Test suite with your setup?

BVM D20 vs D24.

Any drawbacks to the flat panel 16:9 D24 when comparing to the round tube 4:3 D20?

I know in 4:3 mode the D24's screen will be 30mm smaller than the D20, but other than that?

Want to purchase my last BVM for the long haul, been enjoying my D14 but want to go bigger.

I am not sure, but the D20 has 16:9 mask by default? If you are going to play 4:3 games, sourcing a 4:3 mask may be quite hard, right?

I'm not worried about the mask, that's a minor issue if anything.

[DrKingSchultz]

Ok. So is it me or is there something wrong with this seller.

My message.

Hi, This is a really nice monitor but the price is way too high, I am really interested in buying from you and I don't want to offend or upset you by giving you a low ball offer, im not a time waster, but this monitor is worth £250-300 max, I am a 3 hour drive away, I can come collect and collect and pay you with cash, when your available, I don't know, let me know if we can work something out, thank you for your time either way.

The response.

Ireally appreciate your opinion - I really do....
But you know what?
For your offer price I'd rather get somebody to drop that monitor on my head and kill me instead.
So my advice is go somewhere else and don't bother me again.
May thanks for the intrest.

I can't stand rude, arrogant people, especially when I have been polite and courteous to them in the first place, needless to say I told him his £650 price tag was a bad joke and no one is going to pay that for his 12 year old tv anyway, not with his attitude problem, that I wouldn't buy it for £50 now and he can stick it where the sun don't shine. Being insulted by a man that cant even spell, ripping people off and insulting people is obviously his business, Oh well back on the search..

[Xyga]

Though:

his £650 price tag was a bad joke and no one is going to pay that for his 12 year old tv anyway

You never know what stupid money people are ready to pay for antiques, especially today considering broadcast monitors are so overhyped, and although N-Americans have good reasons for wanting RGB CRTs, even Europeans have been chasing broadcast stuff like they do ridiculously overpriced 'collector' retro games, like we haven't still got tons of perfectly acceptable used consumer CRT TVs with scart RGB around...
For some years now I've seen people buy whatever completely rundown PVM/BVM for several hundred, even over the 1000 limit in cases, and then despair at how impossible these things are to service/renew when the problems are too big.
Unreasonable fetishism, and inflated prices as consequence. It's partly the fault of a number of communities like ours, ya know.

[nissling]

If you can even find a 20" BVM for sale in Sweden (which is an extremely rare opportunity) you should be happy if it's priced at less than £500. That's why I imported mine...

[arcade-stg]

Hard to source in several countries +
Extremely high stock price tag +
Highly desired by retrogamers +
More and more difusion in forums and youtube channels +
Current exponential price rise en retro market +
Shpping them broke a % of the current ones avilable +
They are awesome
------------------------------------------------------------------
I wish they were cheap, but they are not

[DrKingSchultz]

^^^ all the points above are true, but £650 for that monitor isn't going to happen I don't think i sent a reasonable message and stated what it was worth, if he would have replied politely and been reasonable we could have worked something out maybe and met in the middle, It is what it is..

For 240p this really depends on the look you're aiming at. Different tubes, different pixel structure and different looks. The BVMs are quite different from what you might have in mind when you think of RGB in the arcades.

^^^^
This

What I,ve learn while browsing this forum is that : tastes vary greatly when it comes to 240p signals. Some like the soft shadow mask of arcade monitors, others prefer the "thight" pixel structure but "somewhat soft" rendering of mid-grade PVMs, and other swear by the "cut-through-your-eyes" incredible sharpness of BVMs.

So unless you state your preferences, there's no way for us to legitimately help you

What look do you prefer for each resolution?

A crude shadow-mask pixel structure that results in some blur, like an arcade monitor?
Or a crude aperture grill with so-so scolor separation, like a consumer Sony TV?
Or a mid-grade PVM where the color separation is excellent but where you have a good deal of blooming going on?
Or a High-grade PVM/ a BVM where the sharpness is pinpoint but you still have that CRT glow?
Or a Mitsubishi/NEC multisync shadowmask where the pixel structure is rougher but color separation is still pretty good and the image is very crisp overall?

Great post! I'm not having any luck finding any decent pvm, bvm monitors in the UK, what Mitsubishi, nec model monitors should I be looking out for if you don't mind me asking, thank you.

[sixbynine]

Well the sellers reaction is a bit harsh but I can kind of see where he’s coming from. If I put something on eBay for 600 bucks I sure as hell wouldn’t respond to some clown wanting it for half. That is, of course, if I believe the price I set is realistic.

[DrKingSchultz]

The seller listed the monitor for £650, great that's up to him, it's his to sell right.. I don't have a problem with that, so I spoke to the informed members on here which told me, the very same monitors have been bought recently for under €200, but they have gone up in value a bit and the maximum value is around €350, any more than that is stupid.. So I informed the seller, his listing is a good example but was priced at over double the current value of the monitor.
375.00 EUR=294.520 GBP
650.00 GBP=827.862 EUR
That price is a joke.
I didn't make an offer, I just informed him that his pricing is way off and to let me know if we can work something out, he replied in a rude, ignorant manner.

I didn't want a steal or a bargain, I simply wanted to pay him the top value of what the monitor is currently worth, why would I pay more than what it's worth, I wasn't being unreasonable. It was an unrealistic price from an unreasonable person.

Then again I already knew what type person I was dealing with when I read this

"I DO NOT ACCEPT ANY BIDDERS TO BID OR BUY MY ITEMS WHO ARE OUTSIDE THE UK BECAUSE I HAVE HAD TOO MANY FOREIGN EBAYERS SCAMMING ME AND SAYING THEIR ITEMS NEVER ARRIVED TAKING ADVANTAGE OF THE PAYPAL PROTECTION SO BECAUSE OF THAT I ABSOLUTELY REFUSE TO SEND ANYTHING OUT THE UK AND YOU HAVE YOURSELVES TO BLUE FOR THAT AND SORRY TO GENUINE BUYERS WHO WISH TO BUY OUTSIDE THE UK BUT IT'S JOT WORTH THE RISK AND PLEASE ALSO NOTE I WILL IGNORE OFFERS THAT YOU WANTED ME TO CONSIDER - I'M THE SELLER NOT YOU SO DON'T TELL ME WHAT I SHOULD BE DOING.
IM NOT IN DESPARATE NEED OF SPACE NOR DO I NEED WHAT EVER I CAN GET SO IF YOU DON'T LIKE MY TONE THEN LOOK ELSEWHERE.
I HAVE BEEN AN EBAYER FOR OVER 16 YEARS SO I HAVE DEALT WITH THE WORST PEOPLE SO I APOLOGISE FOR AGAIN FOR THOSE WHO ARE HALF DECENT.
IM NOT A DIFFICULT PERSON TO DO BUSINESS WITH I WILL ELP ANYONE TO THE END OF THE EARTH IF I NEED TOO PLEASE DON'T FEEL PUT OFF BY THIS MESSAGE CALL ME ANYTIME AND CHECK MY FEEDBACK. "

[Guspaz]

His response was certainly over the top, but your initial message to him was pretty rude too, so...

[DrKingSchultz]

How so? Where was I rude, I fail to see it. By saying the price was way too high? And telling him what the actual current market value is for the monitor? That's business. That's not rude, it's the truth.

[Xyga]

Rude ? We westerners are all so rich we don't bargain lol.

[Guspaz]

Maybe things are different where you're from, but telling somebody their price is way too high in the manner that you did is pretty rude here. That's not at all the way that I'd word a polite offer for a lower price. Just because something is true doesn't mean it isn't said in a rude way.

[DrKingSchultz]

Maybe things are different where you're from, but telling somebody their price is way too high in the manner that you did is pretty rude here. That's not at all the way that I'd word a polite offer for a lower price. Just because something is true doesn't mean it isn't said in a rude way.

Yeah if something is ridiculously overpriced, we generally just say it over here. It is what it is. If that was rude you would have loved my reply to his message, practically savage by your standards ahh well

[Ed Oscuro]

I don't think simply contacting a seller to try to do a price match isn't rude. You certainly won't get a better price if you don't try. What's useless is to push on ahead in hoping for a windfall when some sucker buys something far over its value. On the other hand, if they wait long enough the market just might catch up with them...

I'd think that most sellers (at least not specialists) are more interested in clearing out inventory space. It might be a bit different if you're selling hand refurbished sets (like the guy in California) but this Mr. Khan (assuming that's the seller) is just price gouging, pure and simple, or trying to pass on the cost of a poor deal they made.

[Xyga]

Maybe things are different where you're from, but telling somebody their price is way too high in the manner that you did is pretty rude here. That's not at all the way that I'd word a polite offer for a lower price. Just because something is true doesn't mean it isn't said in a rude way.

Tone and formulas depend on the moment and person yes, but when it's clearly too high you can straight-out say it, it's normal, as DrKingSchultz says it's business, literally normal behaviour wherever on Earth.
Unless you've done actual business you would know that if you don't say anything like that, the other guy will think you're an idiot and take advantage.
In this case though it's just the seller's that's rude and stubbornly overestimating the value of his item, plain obvious.

EDIT: and as Ed underlines it's better to walk away if the first answer is like that.