Definition of "beating" a shmup...

[VNAF Ace]

My definition: Beat the game and unlock everything.

[ptoing]

My definition: Beat the game and unlock everything.

Your definition of beating a game is beating it?
Don't you know that you can't use the word you want to define inside the definition?

[Dave_K.]

My definition: I like to take my shmups out to an open field and kick the living crap out of it "Office Space" style.

[Randorama]

Please, members of the SMURF, let's not waste time fighting against each other and dis movi...ehr, games like Metal Gear :shakeshandsfreemasonstyle:

[VNAF Ace]

My definition: Beat the game and unlock everything.

Your definition of beating a game is beating it?
Don't you know that you can't use the word you want to define inside the definition?

Fine... Finish the main story mode, any other single player modes, and unlock everything. Happy?

[ptoing]

Well i dunno if i would count unlocking too. In many games (esp RPGs) i can't be arsed to unlock everything. On games I really love tho i try doing that.

"Finish the main story mode" would that allow for continuing in a shmup?

[VNAF Ace]

I always use continues. I'm just not as crazy as some of the other pilots here...

BTW, I agree with what you said about unlocking everything RPGs. Example: I'm not goin to replay FF7 just to grab every single materia.

[CMoon]

Neon, you are going in the right idea, but missing the interactivity. My console will have a controller with one big button on it maked 'WIN'.

[SAM]

Orginally the early shmup games do not allow you to continue. The continue feature is designed to stuck up coins. By allowing you to restart from later stages it is a effective way to shortern play time par credit. And some PCBs even allow the operator to enable discounted continue.

I think there is no need to give such stright defination on how to finish a shmup game should be consider beating it. Whether finishing a shmup with unlimited credits or single credit is consider beating, should be decided by whether it does any meaning to you when you finish the game that way.

But when you are intended to compare your skill with a shmup with others you should always stick to the 1cc rules.

[Minzoku]

Technically speaking, it is perfectly legal to say, "I completed[/beat] the game," when you have by your own power reached the ending sequence of a game [I completed Secret of Evermore once but the game commited suicide in the middle of the end sequence... boo!]. Mind you, it is also perfectly legal to say, "I got 100 on the test!" when you stole the answer key and copied the answers from there. Sure, you got 100, but you didn't learn anything in the process, and in the end you've only cheated yourself.

Especially in regards to shmups, completing the game in a single credit/life is a much more impressive feat, much like getting a perfect score on the SATs/ACTs [which are much harder to cheat, even though it's possible]. Convincing others of this fact is difficult, though, much like it's difficult teaching a college fraternity that grades mean more than watching football and getting drunk...

[Zweihander]

My definition: Beat the game and unlock everything.

no bragging rights... haven't accomplished anything. simply having the time to get credit-gaining hours in, and unlock artwork/extra features/more ships, means nothing. as stated in this thread, you haven't "solved" the game. (by that logic, anyway.)

[Randorama]

Neon, you are going in the right idea, but missing the interactivity. My console will have a controller with one big button on it maked 'WIN'.

But why wait for a radiant tomorrow that may never come? Join the SMURF order and become one of the masters of the known world, in the name of the all-seeing pyramid and oneness with rank! You will immediately WIN on every single shmup you will play, at once!

...Should i send you the .pdf with the subscription details?

Oh, this reminds me that i have to update my sign as well

[Neon]

A few-ish hours in and I still haven't beaten your Garegga score yet. I want my money back asshole.

[Randorama]

A few-ish hours in and I still haven't beaten your Garegga score yet. I want my money back asshole.

Because you didn't try hard. Maybe if you apply for SMURFs as well...

[Fenrir]

Technically speaking, it is perfectly legal to say, "I completed[/beat] the game," when you have by your own power reached the ending sequence of a game.

Well, can't be much more, can it.
Flipping every stone in the game simply means "beating it really well" or maybe "overdo". As far as a game goes, if you finish it* you're qualified to say "I beat it".

*without cheats :P

[gs68]

1CC the game on default settings.

If continuing your way to the end constituted beating the game, all you'd need at the arcade to "beat" the game is deep pockets.

[sjewkestheloon]

to me you can either beat a game or be done with it. i have endlessly completed gunbird by continuing and i'm close to being sick with it. for now i'm done with it. i haven't however beaten it as that would require a 1cc and possibly an attack of a second loop/aim at high score etc.

this translates to rpgs for me too. i sometimes just want the story and then i play through very quickly and loose myself in the plot and aim for simple closure. other times (usually as a second run through) i pay close attention and collect everything, beat every miniboss, visit every area, defeat at least one of every enemy type, etc. for me then i've beaten the game.

it does all come down to personal satisfaction and senses of achievement though to be honest. i would never hope to 1cc ddpdoj for example but then i woudl never claim to have beaten it.

i think bragging rights are a large part of this discussion and someone who brags that they have beaten a game by credit feeding deserves to be shouted down imho

[battlegorge]

My definition of beating a smup is:
Playing on default difficulty or higher and finishing the final stage before seeing any "gameover" or "continue?" message.

[PaCrappa]

When I was first getting into my own arcade setups I started going around to any and every place that had arcade games for play. One time some buddies and I went to the suckass (like the rest of 'em) arcade on the pier. I was playing Raiden Fighters 2 and of course I eventually lost and walked away. A moment later I turned around and noticed some teenage kid had continued on my fucking game! I was like "Damn! These people are savages!". And then I went to the real arcade: My house.

The End.

Pa

[it290]

Heh, kinda OT, but I remember when I was a little kid I used to walk to the corner store damn near every day and play Shinobi. I was only about 8 years old or so and knew nothing of the ethics of playing arcade games. I just wanted to get as far as I could in Shinobi, and so I was constantly continuing. Well, one day a friend and I were there and there was this teenager playing who was pretty good at the game. He got pretty far with his quarter, IIRC to the level where the bone-chucking skeletons show up. When he died, he went up to the counter to get more change or something, but he still had a credit left in the machine. The continue counter was running out, as often happened to me when I went to get more change, so I did what I thought the guy would want and pressed the start button -- why wouldn't he want to continue, right? When he came back, he saw what had happened and I will never forget the look of disgust in his eyes. He gave me this withering look and gestured for me to take the controls, then walked away. And that's how I received my first education in the way of the 1cc.

[Acid King]

My definition: Beat the game and unlock everything.

no bragging rights... haven't accomplished anything. simply having the time to get credit-gaining hours in, and unlock artwork/extra features/more ships, means nothing. as stated in this thread, you haven't "solved" the game. (by that logic, anyway.)

Bragging rights don't come from beating the game, they come from score, which is how the game rates your play. Especially with shooters, the clear isn't as important for so called bragging rights as manipulation of the scoring system.

With shooters a one credit clear doesn't mean you "solved" anything. Ikaruga, for example, could be cleared with C rankings on every stage. That's not solving the game, even if you did 1 credit clear it.

[it290]

^^Ikaruga is somewhat atypical in that respect though. In many shooters, especially older ones, score is pretty much a direct indicator of progress since no complicated scoring system is present. Even in a game like DDP that features chaining, clearing the game at all is going to give you a score fairly close to the max (in comparison to Ikaruga).

[Acid King]

^^Ikaruga is somewhat atypical in that respect though. In many shooters, especially older ones, score is pretty much a direct indicator of progress since no complicated scoring system is present. Even in a game like DDP that features chaining, clearing the game at all is going to give you a score fairly close to the max (in comparison to Ikaruga).

Eh, thats' the thing, most modern shooters have scoring gimmicks that need to be exploited to really put up a score. As you said, it's mostly older games that lack scoring systems aside from shoot the bad guys where just beating a game yields a high score. Certainly, pretty much every Cave game released since Donpachi has been like this. I've beaten Bakraid over a dozen times and my highest clear score is a little more than one twelfth of the world record. When I cleared it the first time it was way less than that. The only modern games I can think of off the top of my head that is like that (clearing universally yields a respectable score) would be Gradius V, and maybe Trizeal and Raiden 3.

[it290]

I'd argue that even with the likes of DP and DDP, if you play well enough to clear the game, you're going to get a decent score since doing so involves having enough knowledge of enemy placement that your chain is going to be pretty good. Most Psikyo titles aren't very heavy on the score mechanics either, with the exception of Dragon Blaze and Gunbird 2 (still simple by Cave standards).

You mentioned Gradius V, and I think that bears mentioning since it's a console shmup. Almost all console-based shmups are focused on clearing the game as much or more so than score, it's just that there haven't been very many games of this type in recent years.

[Zweihander]

quoth my shmup-sensei,

"Ikaruga isn't a shooter, it's a fucking puzzle game."

...he might have been joking, though. ^^;

[Valgar]

I'd argue that even with the likes of DP and DDP, if you play well enough to clear the game, you're going to get a decent score since doing so involves having enough knowledge of enemy placement that your chain is going to be pretty good. Most Psikyo titles aren't very heavy on the score mechanics either, with the exception of Dragon Blaze and Gunbird 2 (still simple by Cave standards).

Nah, MrMonkeyMan has a score of 120million at stage 2-5...16% of the world record.

[it290]

Ok, good point. I probably should have said 'decent score' rather than 'max score'/WR in my original post. My main point is just that in most shooters, playing for score and playing for survival are not nearly so separate as they are in Ikaruga... probably part of the reason why Ikaruga has a ranking system to begin with.

[Rob]

My main point is just that in most shooters, playing for score and playing for survival are not nearly so separate as they are in Ikaruga...

Ikaruga gives out much more extra lives than the average score based shooter = more connected with survival, right?

[elvis]

And some PCBs even allow the operator to enable discounted continue.

Good point. Almost every game released in the last 10 years allows the operator to select how the coin operation of the game works via the setup menus. Still, whether you "blame" the manufacturers for allowing it or th eoperators for choosing to allow it is up to you.

But as I said before, coin-feeders keep arcades alive. Even if you are adamantly against it, be happy in the knowledge that it will keep new games appearing near you.

[it290]

Ikaruga gives out much more extra lives than the average score based shooter = more connected with survival, right?

Not really, since you have to chain rigorously in order to earn them.