Definition of "beating" a shmup...

[Zweihander]

A friend of mine seems to think seeing the ending credits of a game means he's "beaten" it; he doesn't seem to grasp the concept of the 1CC. The single-credit, fell-swoop. Shmups are unlike Action-adventures, or RPG's; Those typically start you off at a save point, and let you continue indefinitely. (save for rare cases Devil May Cry 1's yellow orb system.) Sure, you may have "beaten" the final boss, be it Bacterion, Hibachi, The Stone-Like, the Bydo Core, that giant-ass thing at the end of Galaga Arrangement-- but have you truly beaten it?

My own philosophy on shmups is: you reach the Continue screen, you've lost. Continue if you like, but you have failed. One cannot see Continuing as actually continuing to prosper and triumph; far from it, as you are returning from the grave-- repeatedly, as the case usually is-- to complete your quest. To truly beat a shmup, to truly complete your <i>conquest</i> and get a <i>well-earned</i> sense of fulfillment, is to complete it without listing "Continue" as an option.

I, personally, feel more honor in quitting after the first credit and entering a highscore, than continuing-- which 1. kills my highscore in 9 out of 10 shmups, and 2. is a admittance of defeat. Granted, losing your <i>first credit</i> in a shmup is unarguably your defeat. But continuing, beating the final boss, and thinking you've beaten the game, is continuing for the wrong reason. When I continue, it's with a "practice" mindset, not a "conquest" one. That mindset dies, as it should, with the loss of the first credit.

I know this has probably been discussed before, and-- in actuality-- goes without saying. I guess it's a sign of the times, where seeing the ending credits automatically means you've won the game. It's a phantom victory. Continuing isn't to complete your quest. It's for practice. And if one thinks continuing to beat a game actually holds bragging rights, they may not be cut out for the oldschool, all-too-hardcore world of shmups.

[Randorama]

My own philosophy on shmups is: you reach the Continue screen, you've lost.

In a nutshell, yes. Completing an arcade game means one credit, full default. Any other proposals will soon be hunt down by the holy inquisition of Arcade Gaming Hardcore (AGH). Among other things, we're trying to build a clone of Torquemada and convince THE Satan ( prizes to who recognizes the quote) to gives his soul in order to inhabit said clone, for better results.

Please stay tuned, we'll keep you informed for the coming of the Hardcore Campaign (HC), in the meanwhile keep in check the Rank Global Awareness Campaign (RGAC, but our marketing department is investing the budget of 4,5 billions $ in order to find a better and catchier acronym).

[Thunder Force]

in the meanwhile keep in check the Rank Global Awareness Campaign (RGAC, but our marketing department is investing the budget of 4,5 billions $ in order to find a better and catchier acronym)

Shmuppers Must Understand Rank Fully (SMURF)

[umi]

Max difficulty, no deaths is the only way to *properly* beat a shmup... or as a compromise, max difficulty in one credit :P

[Randorama]

in the meanwhile keep in check the Rank Global Awareness Campaign (RGAC, but our marketing department is investing the budget of 4,5 billions $ in order to find a better and catchier acronym)

Shmuppers Must Understand Rank Fully (SMURF)

YES! You, oh Thunderforce, are indeed one of the enlightened seers of long and lost Shangri-La! Join us in our spiritual path to Agartha and be one with rank!

[~Kid Icarus~]

A friend of mine seems to think seeing the ending credits of a game means he's "beaten" it; he doesn't seem to grasp the concept of the 1CC. The single-credit, fell-swoop. Shmups are unlike Action-adventures, or RPG's; Those typically start you off at a save point, and let you continue indefinitely. (save for rare cases Devil May Cry 1's yellow orb system.) Sure, you may have "beaten" the final boss, be it Bacterion, Hibachi, The Stone-Like, the Bydo Core, that giant-ass thing at the end of Galaga Arrangement-- but have you truly beaten it?

My own philosophy on shmups is: you reach the Continue screen, you've lost. Continue if you like, but you have failed. One cannot see Continuing as actually continuing to prosper and triumph; far from it, as you are returning from the grave-- repeatedly, as the case usually is-- to complete your quest. To truly beat a shmup, to truly complete your <i>conquest</i> and get a <i>well-earned</i> sense of fulfillment, is to complete it without listing "Continue" as an option.

I, personally, feel more honor in quitting after the first credit and entering a highscore, than continuing-- which 1. kills my highscore in 9 out of 10 shmups, and 2. is a admittance of defeat. Granted, losing your <i>first credit</i> in a shmup is unarguably your defeat. But continuing, beating the final boss, and thinking you've beaten the game, is continuing for the wrong reason. When I continue, it's with a "practice" mindset, not a "conquest" one. That mindset dies, as it should, with the loss of the first credit.

I know this has probably been discussed before, and-- in actuality-- goes without saying. I guess it's a sign of the times, where seeing the ending credits automatically means you've won the game. It's a phantom victory. Continuing isn't to complete your quest. It's for practice. And if one thinks continuing to beat a game actually holds bragging rights, they may not be cut out for the oldschool, all-too-hardcore world of shmups.

This is actually why I kinda got back in to arcade games/shooters. Most mainstream games these days allow you to use save points, so eventually regardless of skill or how much practice you put in, you'll beat the game anyway, and I don't find that fun or rewarding.

Kids growing up playing today's games won't know the pain/excitement of reaching the final boss with only 1 life left after 30-40 minutes play to get there.

[Neon]

Do we really need a universal definition? Really, you've beaten the game when you've gotten as far as you want to go with it. Though you'll typically get more satisfaction if that goal is to clear it/get a high score than blow through it, yes.

Remember, if you disagree with me, you are wrong. Myself and the other SMURFS will not tolerate such heresy.

[ptoing]

Max difficulty, no deaths is the only way to *properly* beat a shmup... or as a compromise, max difficulty in one credit

sif! I doubt any raizing game is doable without dying. Also i would say 1cc'ing on default settings is enough to say you beat the game properly. I don't even wanna think about playing Mushi on Very hard Ultra O_-''

[Blade]

Well, if I were to go by Zweihander's estimation, I am the most losing-est shmupper around these parts, (Ikaruga being the only game I'm remotely good at). My decision to play shmups doesn't revolve around winning so much as blowing the hell out of the enemy. I know how much praise people get when they become ace pilots and all, but I just suck comparatively.

But, despite everything, someday I WILL submit my Ikaruga 122 Chain Stage 5 Using ONLY energy release video!

YES I AM A CHEATER!

[Acid King]

In a nutshell, yes. Completing an arcade game means one credit, full default. Any other proposals will soon be hunt down by the holy inquisition of Arcade Gaming Hardcore (AGH). Among other things, we're trying to build a clone of Torquemada and convince THE Satan ( prizes to who recognizes the quote) to gives his soul in order to inhabit said clone, for better results.

Please stay tuned, we'll keep you informed for the coming of the Hardcore Campaign (HC), in the meanwhile keep in check the Rank Global Awareness Campaign (RGAC, but our marketing department is investing the budget of 4,5 billions $ in order to find a better and catchier acronym).

Ye and God said to Abraham you will play your shooters one credit at a time, lest ye be struck down by thy hardcorierer brethren.

[professor ganson]

You know, before I found this site-- exactly one year ago next Monday-- I had never heard of a 1cc. Perhaps it's just something people here made up to make others feel lowly. Well, it worked guys. I only have 1ccs on stupidly easy games.

I may NEVER see the final stages of my favorite Psikyo games because of you guys!

-PG
Founder of VHC (Victims of the HardCore)

[Rob]

If you are a true shmupaholic, the various words people will use will reveal their true meanings. For example...

Beating - Unlimited credits, you got to the end.
Solving - You 1cc'd it.
1cc'ing - You solved it.

I prefer solve.

[it290]

But what about the old 1 loop/2 loop debate, especially when you must clear the 2nd loop to get the real ending or face the true final boss? My list of 1ccs is sadly a short one and I will be happy when I do clear the 1st loop of Strikers or DDP -- that's enough for me and I just don't have the dedication or skill to clear the second loop. The game may not be fully beaten, but at that point I still feel like I'm justified in saying "I beat the game". I know some of you feel otherwise, though.

[Rob]

The game may not be fully beaten, but at that point I still feel like I'm justified in saying "I beat the game".

I would say no, but that's what "beat" is all about. See also: "won."

[elvis]

Why must you "win"? What's the compulsion to ever "finish" something? That is such a hollywood thing, to *need* a happy ending where all the loose ends are tied up, and the hero gets to ride off into the sunset.

Life is about the journey, not the destination. Shmups are the same. You can always get a better score. There is no "winning" and "losing", only your name in the highscore list.

That's why I play shooters and fighters. There will always be someone with a higher score than me, and there will always be someone who can beat me. I can never be the best at everything, but I can sure as hell keep trying. I don't care whether the game has an ending or not, I just want to play and improve.

[it290]

True, but the quest for a 1cc does provide some of the motivation to keep playing. HS competition (on this forum or in the arcade) is perhaps an even better motivator, but good luck finding much competition on some of the older/more obscure shmups out there. You can always continue trying to improve your own score, but for me that's more fulfilling if I have some target points such as others' scores or a 1cc along the way.

[BulletMagnet]

Shmuppers Must Understand Rank Fully (SMURF)

YES! You, oh Thunderforce, are indeed one of the enlightened seers of long and lost Shangri-La! Join us in our spiritual path to Agartha and be one with rank!

"SMURF," is it? Then I guess you can call me "Gargamel."

[jp]

Max difficulty, no deaths is the only way to *properly* beat a shmup... or as a compromise, max difficulty in one credit

sif! I doubt any raizing game is doable without dying. Also i would say 1cc'ing on default settings is enough to say you beat the game properly. I don't even wanna think about playing Mushi on Very hard Ultra O_-''

*tries to imagine playing through Border Down without dying*



*dies*


Damn... yellow border...

[elvis]

True, but the quest for a 1cc does provide some of the motivation to keep playing. HS competition (on this forum or in the arcade) is perhaps an even better motivator, but good luck finding much competition on some of the older/more obscure shmups out there. You can always continue trying to improve your own score, but for me that's more fulfilling if I have some target points such as others' scores or a 1cc along the way.

I guess. I consider 1CC a milestone rather than a checkered flag.

Plus I live in Australia, where you're likely to find a higher population of cirucs midgets per square kilometer than you would import gamers (everybody here thinks that EA are the only people who make games in the whole world, and they'd be almost right if you take a look at the shit sitting on Aussie store shelves).

My competition *IS* online highscore lists, and nothing else.

[zaphod]

People keep telling me trying to 1 life cclear Garegga is not playing it properly.

that's my only real beef with this shooter. you should have the option of doing the single life clear.

Was this actually done on the insanity Garegga dvd?

[Blade]

I'll be totally honest though, I'm actually more or less of the opinion that instead of giving shmuppers a continue screen, it should say game-over from the get-go, less temptation that way. Part of the reason some shmuppers can even GET a 1cc is through the concept of Gaining extra credits through scoring.

Do away with those two factors and most shmups get tons harder.

[elvis]

Removing "continue" screens will unfortunately kill profits. Coin-feeders are the lifeblood of the arcade industry.

To me it's a necessary evil. I excercise self control and don't continue, but for the coin-feeders I just smile and think how they are simply keeping my favourite games alive.

[BulletMagnet]

In a few home ports (Mushi on the PS2 comes to mind, for one), you can even turn the "continue" option off in the Options menu, so the game automatically limits you to one credit anyways. Otherwise, it's just a matter of tapping the button till the continue counter is gone, nothing too difficult.

[Acid King]

I'll be totally honest though, I'm actually more or less of the opinion that instead of giving shmuppers a continue screen, it should say game-over from the get-go, less temptation that way. Part of the reason some shmuppers can even GET a 1cc is through the concept of Gaining extra credits through scoring.

I personally would dislike that, since it would pretty much make it impossible for me to get my friends to play a game with me. Without liberal continues, the games simplly aren't very fun for unskilled players.

[Damocles]

Max difficulty, no deaths is the only way to *properly* beat a shmup... or as a compromise, max difficulty in one credit

What about shmups with a lifebar and only one "life"?

[ptoing]

I'll be totally honest though, I'm actually more or less of the opinion that instead of giving shmuppers a continue screen, it should say game-over from the get-go, less temptation that way. Part of the reason some shmuppers can even GET a 1cc is through the concept of Gaining extra credits through scoring.

Do away with those two factors and most shmups get tons harder.

I know of no shmup that earns you extra credits due to score. Extra lives you mean?

And, duh, well of course a game gets harder when you have less lifes, but i am sure the guys at Cave for example have a reason to put in the possibility to gain 2 exralives and get a hidden pickup one in most games.
If they were not there they could not make their games as hard as they are without people moaning about it.

[Neon]

People keep telling me trying to 1 life cclear Garegga is not playing it properly.

that's my only real beef with this shooter. you should have the option of doing the single life clear.

A better idea would be to just remove every aspect of the game that requires thought. Infinite bombs, too. Let's just blow things up and clear it on the first go.

The thing that sucks about Garegga is that it isn't like every other shooter.

[Valgar]

Infinite Bombs? I like it.

[ptoing]

what could also be done is a hitbox that is only 1 pixel big and only registers every other frame or all 4 frames or something. That would help as well i guess

[Neon]

Infinite Bombs? I like it.

Good taste. I'd also advocate removing the joystick from consoles entirely. Let's just watch the games and their graphics (actually, I pretty much just described Metal Gear and Xenosaga).