Need help finding the best HDTV for the Wii U?

[Treasure Master]

Hey guys so I'm in the market for a new HDTV for my Wii U and I'm having a hard time making a decision
So I came across this site that does TV reviews http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/by-usa ... aming/best
They seem to be pretty thorough in their testing and the TV they said was the best for gaming was the Samsung JU7500 4K
I'm sold after reading all the results and how high quality it is. But I'm unsure if it's a good buy for the Wii U
Well here's my worries would the Wii U really work that well on the TV since it's a 4k and the Wii U is a 1080P console?
Doesn't 4K introduce lots of input lag and the image is worse looking due to upscaling compared to a 1080P TV?
Also another concern is that I frequently will play Wii disk games and wii virtual console games on the Wii U in wii mode.
Games in Wii mode output at a lower resolution than 1080P right? If that's the case would there be even more issues for playing games in that mode on a 4K?
So if the all of the above is true and is a bad idea. What would you guys recommend for a TV?
I just want something that has low input lag, an excellent picture and is brand new. I don't wanna hunt down anything like used RGB CRT's or Plasma's
I have a pretty high budget I'm willing to spend up to$1500 on whatever would be the best high end option.

I look forward to hearing your guys suggestions.
Thank's in advanced!!!!!

[bobrocks95]

I can't imagine 480p content looking good on a 4K TV. That said, choosing between a VA panel or an IPS panel might be a good place to start.

IPS
+better viewing angles
-suffers from IPS glow and backlight bleed to varying degrees

VA
+deeper blacks
+better colors (I think)
-black shift off-angle
-lower response time which leads to more motion blur. Somewhat defeatable with various interpolation modes depending on the display.

Other people could probably chime in with more details here than me.

The TV with the lowest input lag released thus far in the US would be the Sony KDL-50/55W700B, but Best Buy no longer offers it. I believe they were actually shipping them down from their Canadian stores. Its lag ranking could have changed in the year and a half since I bought mine of course.

[BazookaBen]

Actually, 480p should look better on a 4k than a 1080p tv, since you have more pixels to smooth out the non-interger scaling factor.

And most Wii U games are actually 720p, so you'd want to set your Wii U to 720p and you'd get perfect 3:1 scaling on a 4k TV (assuming the TV doesn't use any funky filtering)

[Treasure Master]

yeah I know the games are not native 1080P I'm just wondering does the console output the signal at 1080p with lower res wii games.

[BazookaBen]

yeah I know the games are not native 1080P I'm just wondering does the console output the signal at 1080p with lower res wii games.

I think it outputs whatever you have your Wii U set to. But if you want best PQ, you'll want to set your Wii U to 480p when you're playing Wii games, and 720p when you're playing Wii U games (except for the rare 1080p game like Smash Bros). That way you're only scaling the image once instead of twice.

For example, say you're playing Super Mario Galaxy with Wii U set to 1080p. First, the game is upscaled from 480p to 1080p by the Wii U, then 1080p to 2160p by the TV.

Or, say you're playing Super Mario 3D World (a 720p native game). It is upscaled from 720p to 1080p by the Wiiu then from 1080p to 2160p by the TV. This would be extra nasty because 720 doesn't divide evenly into 1080.

But if you set your Wii U to 720 when playing Super Mario 3D World, it will divide evenly into 2160 and give you a near perfect picture, depending on the TV.

[bobrocks95]

Actually, 480p should look better on a 4k than a 1080p tv, since you have more pixels to smooth out the non-interger scaling factor.

Smooth it out as in make it even blurrier and less sharp I would think. But my opinion on the subject doesn't matter anyway, I play 480p stuff on an EDTV and haven't seen what it actually looks like on an UHDTV anyway.

[Treasure Master]

yeah I know the games are not native 1080P I'm just wondering does the console output the signal at 1080p with lower res wii games.

I think it outputs whatever you have your Wii U set to. But if you want best PQ, you'll want to set your Wii U to 480p when you're playing Wii games, and 720p when you're playing Wii U games (except for the rare 1080p game like Smash Bros). That way you're only scaling the image once instead of twice.

For example, say you're playing Super Mario Galaxy with Wii U set to 1080p. First, the game is upscaled from 480p to 1080p by the Wii U, then 1080p to 2160p by the TV.

Or, say you're playing Super Mario 3D World (a 720p native game). It is upscaled from 720p to 1080p by the Wiiu then from 1080p to 2160p by the TV. This would be extra nasty because 720 doesn't divide evenly into 1080.

But if you set your Wii U to 720 when playing Super Mario 3D World, it will divide evenly into 2160 and give you a near perfect picture, depending on the TV.

Ok I didn't know that. I just figured it's better for the console to do the upscaling rather than the TV. So do you think that samsung tv would be good for what I'm doing?
I'm just thinking I might not get the 21ms input lag which is good according to the site. How much do you think the input lag would be raised after upscaling the 1080p or 720p signal?

[BazookaBen]

Actually, 480p should look better on a 4k than a 1080p tv, since you have more pixels to smooth out the non-interger scaling factor.

Smooth it out as in make it even blurrier and less sharp I would think. But my opinion on the subject doesn't matter anyway, I play 480p stuff on an EDTV and haven't seen what it actually looks like on an UHDTV anyway.

Even nearest-neighbor scaling should work out better on a 4k TV. Every two 480p pixels would either be 4 or 5 pixels on a 4k TV. On a 1080p set, every 4th 480p pixel would be 3 pixels on 1080p set while the rest would be 2.

[BazookaBen]

Ok I didn't know that. I just figured it's better for the console to do the upscaling rather than the TV. So do you think that samsung tv would be good for what I'm doing?
I'm just thinking I might not get the 21ms input lag which is good according to the site. How much do you think the input lag would be raised after upscaling the 1080p or 720p signal?

Well, if the Wii U could output a 4k signal, then you would want the console to do it (to reduce lag), but since it can't, you want to feed your TV the individual game's native res and just let the TV do the scaling.

As far as input lag from scaling goes: that is entirely dependent on the TV. You're just going to have to browse this forum and others to find which 2015/2016 TV's have the least lag.

I play Wii U, PS3, PC, etc. on a PC CRT monitor, so I always know I'm getting precisely 0ms input lag. I do want to upgrade to a 4k OLED one day, I hope they have input lag under control by the time I do.

[telemetry]

Just need one of those 5K TVs for the perfect scaling! (2880/480 = 6, 2880/720 = 4)

[tacoguy64]

I love how HD games look on my plasma. Really nice contrast and good input lag. It's not even that high end of a plasma and it looks great. Though I haven't played Wii games or VC games on it to give good comments on how it handles those games. Not sure what you have against plasmas but they are a good option for HD gaming. I also did some pc gaming and had some good results as well. The only thing I can think of that will make me upgrade from a plasma is a nice OLED with low lag.

[Sid]

I love how HD games look on my plasma. Really nice contrast and good input lag. It's not even that high end of a plasma and it looks great. Though I haven't played Wii games or VC games on it to give good comments on how it handles those games. Not sure what you have against plasmas but they are a good option for HD gaming. I also did some pc gaming and had some good results as well. The only thing I can think of that will make me upgrade from a plasma is a nice OLED with low lag.

I suppose some people just aren't comfortable buying used. Me?... I just added a fourth Pioneer plasma to my collection - a KRP-500M no less. A used 8, 9, or 9.5 gen Kuro is what I would recommend - aside from the much lauded image quality, a pro over other plasma brands is their resistance to image retention and burn in. Compared to the Panasonics that I own, the Pioneers are nigh on bullet proof in this regard.

[FinalBaton]

I suppose some people just aren't comfortable buying used. Me?... I just added a fourth Pioneer plasma to my collection - a KRP-500M no less. A used 8, 9, or 9.5 gen Kuro is what I would recommend - aside from the much lauded image quality, a pro over other plasma brands is their resistance to image retention and burn in. Compared to the Panasonics that I own, the Pioneers are nigh on bullet proof in this regard.

Are there Pioneer plasmas with very low input lag?
I'm a big plasma fan and the models I've been eyeing so far are the nice mid-tier 1080p Panasonic ones with 15ms of lag. But if there's a Pioneer Kuro with those figures, I'm really intersted.

[Xyga]

Dude would you really look for a used Kuro, those are pretty much all dead now, aren't they ? ^^

Anyway: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/167-plasm ... hread.html
Not all tests are very reliable, but you get the idea.

[brentsg]

Dude would you really look for a used Kuro, those are pretty much all dead now, aren't they ? ^^

Anyway: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/167-plasm ... hread.html
Not all tests are very reliable, but you get the idea.

Not sure why they'd be all dead. It's been a while since I've checked mine, but most of the Kuro's are in the 40-60ms range. I've been pretty satisfied with my 5010 for gaming, no doubt about it.

I guess you'd need to find one with reasonable hours, but I'm sure they're out there.

[FinalBaton]

Dude would you really look for a used Kuro, those are pretty much all dead now, aren't they ? ^^

Anyway: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/167-plasm ... hread.html
Not all tests are very reliable, but you get the idea.

well I am mostly looking for a Pioneer, wich were made up to 2012-2013, wich isn't too bad

but yeah, that's definitly something to consider for Kuros



btw : where does your awesome Quebec french location comes from, lol

[Xyga]

Sorry the Kuros sound from like aeons ago to me, maybe a decade, so I though it must be pretty tough to find one used that's not fucked.
I bet people who haven't abused theirs keep them anyway.

@FB I'm euro-French but can appreciate some exclusive Quebec vocabulary sometimes, 'cave' happens to have the same meaning though considered old-fashioned slang here, anyway I though it was appropriate in regards to the recent 'best/worst Cave' games discusssions.

[FinalBaton]

I though it was appropriate in regards to the recent 'best/worst Cave' games discusssions.

Indeed it is

[tacoguy64]

I love how HD games look on my plasma. Really nice contrast and good input lag. It's not even that high end of a plasma and it looks great. Though I haven't played Wii games or VC games on it to give good comments on how it handles those games. Not sure what you have against plasmas but they are a good option for HD gaming. I also did some pc gaming and had some good results as well. The only thing I can think of that will make me upgrade from a plasma is a nice OLED with low lag.

I suppose some people just aren't comfortable buying used. Me?... I just added a fourth Pioneer plasma to my collection - a KRP-500M no less. A used 8, 9, or 9.5 gen Kuro is what I would recommend - aside from the much lauded image quality, a pro over other plasma brands is their resistance to image retention and burn in. Compared to the Panasonics that I own, the Pioneers are nigh on bullet proof in this regard.

I guess there are lots of things to consider when buying used hd tv's. I've never bought one used so i dont know what is it like but I would imagine with so many different options out there for buying something newer, it would make me look twice. The most important thing for any HDTV when it comes to playing older games is the internal scaler. The one on my panny plasma sucks a lot when doing lower resolutions like 480p and below and need the help of the frameister in order to get the best image at those resolutions. Next thing to look for is input lag which are generally better on plasma but i know that LCDs have gotten way better with this.

I'm not too familiar with the Kuro brand of plasmas but how do they compare to your panny? I loved my plasma ever since i bought it 8 years ago. Never been disappointed with it even now that i own high end crt monitors. The only areas I ever found it lacking was with 480p images since the quality is ok but not great but anything below is pretty bad. Though the Wii wasn't really the best at outputting 480p.

I don't think I would do any 4k tv at this time. The only thing that I can think of at the moment that would ever take advantage of such high resolution are high end PC games that are powered by beefy pc's. Though I think movies at that resolution are finally being put out. And the new PS4 is supposed to output at 1080p. Which I dont know much about yet. I really doubt they could get games to play at any respectable fps to be enjoyable. Especially considering that you need a much stronger gpu and cpu than what the ps4 has.

[BazookaBen]

I don't think I would do any 4k tv at this time. The only thing that I can think of at the moment that would ever take advantage of such high resolution are high end PC games that are powered by beefy pc's. Though I think movies at that resolution are finally being put out. And the new PS4 is supposed to output at 1080p. Which I dont know much about yet. I really doubt they could get games to play at any respectable fps to be enjoyable. Especially considering that you need a much stronger gpu and cpu than what the ps4 has.

The thing about 4k support is that games don't have to run at 4k to take advantage of it.

For example, lots of XBO and PS4 games currently only render at something like 900p or some other weird resolution like 1080x1440. But they're upscaled to 1080p, meaning the PS4 has to somehow figure out how to spread 900 pixels over 1080 pixels. This doesn't give the best looking result, but if you're sitting far enough away from your TV, it's workable. But if you could scale 900 to 2160 (4k), you'd have a lot more pixels to work with and smooth things out.

[gray117]

It's impossible to paint in broad strokes. The thing with the 1080 console upscale is that (where this occurs) the game manages this as best as possible with minimal compromise orchestrated towards the individual game and your HD TV gets a 1080p image to display as native (as settings allow). Whereas whatever your 4k TV is doing is just a one size fits all solution to all 1080p content constantly... Which isn't great.

But yeah at the same time depending on size + sitting distance you may prefer some of the finer 4k screens due to pixel density/dot pitch - some HD screens have quite a large gap between the pixels these days if you sit desk distance away from your big screen.

[ZellSF]

4K should result in better scaling, as long as it does not impose another upscaling step. Then the advantage of a higher resolution to upscale to is sort of lost.

For Wii U that means your games will look better provided you change resolution before launching them which is a bit tiresome. Otherwise the Wii U will upscale Wii titles (480p) and most Wii U games (720p) to 1080p before your TV does another upscale to 4K.

4K shouldn't have an effect on input lag by itself, though I heard most 4K TVs are sort of laggy.

It's a bit annoying that consoles lack a "output native resolution when possible" option. Though Nintendo is the last company to ask for features like that: they don't even support full RGB yet.

Smooth it out as in make it even blurrier and less sharp I would think.

Why? There's no reason to think that. The only reason we have blurriness in scaling now is because we have so low resolution displays that scaling can't work well.

Just need one of those 5K TVs for the perfect scaling! (2880/480 = 6, 2880/720 = 4)

You only need 1440p for that.

[telemetry]

Just need one of those 5K TVs for the perfect scaling! (2880/480 = 6, 2880/720 = 4)

You only need 1440p for that.

*smacks forehead*

[jepjepjep]

I recently picked up a Samsung 4K 55JU6500 and I've been really happy with it. I also leaned heavily on the rtings reviews. I find the 4K upscaling by Samsung to be very good. The Wii U looks phenomenal on this set (I have mine set at 720p). All-in-all, I'm very impressed so I wouldn't have any reservations with the 7500 if I were you, just make sure you like the curved screen.

[tacoguy64]

I don't think I would do any 4k tv at this time. The only thing that I can think of at the moment that would ever take advantage of such high resolution are high end PC games that are powered by beefy pc's. Though I think movies at that resolution are finally being put out. And the new PS4 is supposed to output at 1080p. Which I dont know much about yet. I really doubt they could get games to play at any respectable fps to be enjoyable. Especially considering that you need a much stronger gpu and cpu than what the ps4 has.

The thing about 4k support is that games don't have to run at 4k to take advantage of it.

For example, lots of XBO and PS4 games currently only render at something like 900p or some other weird resolution like 1080x1440. But they're upscaled to 1080p, meaning the PS4 has to somehow figure out how to spread 900 pixels over 1080 pixels. This doesn't give the best looking result, but if you're sitting far enough away from your TV, it's workable. But if you could scale 900 to 2160 (4k), you'd have a lot more pixels to work with and smooth things out.

I know that a bunch of games on last gen consoles usually render at lower resolutions than 1080p or even 720p and instead just scale up to HD. Current gen games are a bit better today but they still rely on some upscaling voodoo magic. I was just questioning the scalers on said 4k tv's since even with 480p my tv only does an ok job at displaying games at that resolution. I usually need the help of the frameister mini if i'm going to be playing at 480p. On the other hand, 720p, 1080i, and 1080p all work perfect.

Im not sure how wii u games work in terms of actually rendering at 1080p/720p resolutions. If it's anything like the last gen system then it probably also relies on the same type of scaling to output HD images.

[BazookaBen]

Im not sure how wii u games work in terms of actually rendering at 1080p/720p resolutions. If it's anything like the last gen system then it probably also relies on the same type of scaling to output HD images.

Digital Foundry has analysed most 1st party Wii U games, and most of them render at precisely 1280x720. So they would upscale perfectly to 4k

[BONKERS]

Actually, 480p should look better on a 4k than a 1080p tv, since you have more pixels to smooth out the non-interger scaling factor.

Most 4k sub 1080p scaling is complete trash though. So yeah, no it's not really going to look all much better. Non-integer is irrelevant unless you are doing point scaling.

4k TVs don't even offer a direct 4:1 pixel ratio input scaling option for 1080p. (Line doubling)

Im not sure how wii u games work in terms of actually rendering at 1080p/720p resolutions. If it's anything like the last gen system then it probably also relies on the same type of scaling to output HD images.

Digital Foundry has analysed most 1st party Wii U games, and most of them render at precisely 1280x720. So they would upscale perfectly to 4k

Some render natively at 1080p though. Like WWHD and TPHD.

[SGGG2]

Not really what you asked OP, but I use an Optima HD3000 to upscale 720p content (including a Wii U) to 1080p and it's fantastic.

[BazookaBen]

Most 4k sub 1080p scaling is complete trash though. So yeah, no it's not really going to look all much better. Non-integer is irrelevant unless you are doing point scaling.

4k TVs don't even offer a direct 4:1 pixel ratio input scaling option for 1080p. (Line doubling)

Im not sure how wii u games work in terms of actually rendering at 1080p/720p resolutions. If it's anything like the last gen system then it probably also relies on the same type of scaling to output HD images.

Digital Foundry has analysed most 1st party Wii U games, and most of them render at precisely 1280x720. So they would upscale perfectly to 4k

Some render natively at 1080p though. Like WWHD and TPHD.

Yeah, I don't have any experience with 4k tv's, so I can only speak to how it should work in theory. I imagine some upscale better than others, but there's not a lot of information out there. Especially since only a very small sub-section of the video game-playing audience is even interested in sub-1080p scaling.

Though Sony definitely sees the value in scaling to 4k, if the rumors of a PS4k are true. Avoiding the double scaling of ???p>1080p>2160p on 4k sets will really improve the visual quality of their games.