GD: DOJ system and strat

[PROMETHEUS]

It's weird o_o I never noticed a difference of hitbox for Type A between WL and BL, but also a 2* size difference between type A and B? That got switched between versions? I had heard type B had a misplaced hitbox in WL like one pixel to the side, that was fixed in BL. Dunno.

[descriptive]

Actually I think the bullet‘s hitbox also changed in BL.In the large,the BL's hitbox is far smaller than WL,although the Type-A's hitbox seemed larger in BL.

For example,in 2-5boss1,the third wave in BL,type A can deal it with it easier(sometimes I had saw the ship was exactly hitted but no miss!at WL this situation happens far less than BL,when I used the save states to practice)

It's weird o_o I never noticed a difference of hitbox for Type A between WL and BL, but also a 2* size difference between type A and B? That got switched between versions? I had heard type B had a misplaced hitbox in WL like one pixel to the side, that was fixed in BL. Dunno.

On IOS,version the hitbox can be noticed by using custom settings,obviously the hitbox of Type-B had misplaced one pixel to the side.But in AC version maybe the hitbox seemed different.(By the way,I had found many mistakes at the booklet of the HFD's DVD,just like the lives bonus after cleared the 1st loop of BL(30mil/each ship),maybe there are some bugs,so the bonus couldn't got by us.And the hitbox,I think,was also seemed to like a misguide......because,anyway,in the large,the BL's hitbox is far smaller than WL,if using Save/Load at 2-5boss many times the conclusion will be more obvious)

I felt also weird,prom.Maybe the BL is easy enough to reach 2.5bil(containing full-combo the 1-3&2-3) without knowing the detail of hitbox in BL,but if playing WL,knowing the hitbox is important to face to some RNGs,like 2-4 rail gun&2-5 mid boss2.

Would you like to 2-all the WL in sh2.2 if you have more time,prom?The WL is just required to move more detailed and exactly.

[PROMETHEUS]

I remember when I played Type B in WL on PS1 emulator, sometimes I got hit when I thought I shouldn't, so I believed that it was related to misplaced hitbox after I heard about that. I haven't played very much type A in WL, I noticed a few patterns have different bullet types that have a little bigger hitbox (big round blue instead of medium round blue).

I can try again with playing a savestate at 2-5 boss. Try a 2-ALL later, why not, it's an interesting challenge. We could also try to ask IKD somehow :P

[descriptive]

I remember when I played Type B in WL on PS1 emulator, sometimes I got hit when I thought I shouldn't, so I believed that it was related to misplaced hitbox after I heard about that. I haven't played very much type A in WL, I noticed a few patterns have different bullet types that have a little bigger hitbox (big round blue instead of medium round blue).

I can try again with playing a savestate at 2-5 boss. Try a 2-ALL later, why not, it's an interesting challenge. We could also try to ask IKD somehow

I ‘ll be very appreciated if someone here can someday meet&ask IKD about detailed system in DOJ.
Not only the rank-system,but also the chain-bonus in BL when using Hypers are very complicated to know,If we know the detailed&non-bug system,maybe we can get more bonus.

(in WL,at 1-2&2-2,WL,if you use shot to hit the star area,no matter you use 1 hyper to 5 hyper the star area will always 470 points(from 20hits to 60hits),by the way,get the hyper will get 100 points,but if you calculated the bonus like the booklet,the bonus will be far higher......obviously,I think there's a bug,I mean a bug in the hyper system in there)

(In DDP3(2002.5.15)(The international ver,not the WL),maybe someone in this forum has played it,2 years ago,the cabinet(SEGA Net City) in my city is fine(now the screen of this cabinet is broken,I'm not from shanghai,the shanghai's DOJ is the BL,and its cabinet is SEGA Blast City),when I played it(If someone here had played it),I found the 1-1 can get 30mil(the 2nd lives) by only get 800hits(used default settings),like the BL,maybe the bug was fixed in DDP3 and the BL)

(By the way,the combo-bonus without hyper are very closed between WL,DDP3&BL,but once you use the hyper the combo-bonus will have a large difference)

But the problem is,When you use your hyper,the booklet's system about is is exactly wrong,can't be calculated exactly,the only thing I know is the 5Hypers' bonus in BL&DDP3 is far more higher than 4Hypers' bonus,in WL,maybe sometimes 5hypers' bonus are lower than 4Hypers'

In WL,I had found the actual bonus when using hyper(without hyper,the bonus is easy enough to calculate,and I think they are same among 3 versions):
(where the N is the number of Hypers)

when using hypers,the hits will be multiplied by (N+1)times,but the actual bonus will be accumulated when shot down a new enemy(or one of its part)or using laser to damage it.Not each hit will be accumulated.

(the first hit):(the enemy's bonus*2),even use 5hypers,also,(the enemy bonus*2)

(the 1+N hits):just,the enemy's bonus*1,*1!(the first is *2,but the second is *1......)

(the 1+1+N+N hits)(the (1+N)+N+1 hits):(the first hit)+(the 1+N hits)+10*N,actually,this bonus can also been interpreted by:

for example,when the N is 5:
(the (1+N)+1 hits):10
(the (1+N)+2 hits):10
(the (1+N)+3 hits):10
(the (1+N)+4 hits):10
(the (1+N)+5 hits):10
(seemed like the booklet,isn't it?maybe you can understand something now......)

(the 1+1+1+N+N hits)(the (1+N)+N+1+N+1 hits):(the first hit)+(the 1+N hits)+10*N+10*N+(the enemy's bonus)
(As you see,the booklet's formula is WL's formula without BUG!not BL's)
(The BUG is,the first will has a *2 enemy bonus,but at the next time the bonus will *1,not accumated(without hyper the bonus will be accmulated normally,so,you will find 60hits' 470point will be less than 10hits' 550point,in 1-2&2-2 star area,beginning,WL)

In BL,I think it's weird......o_o
Also the rank system,I think if there are more ways let the diffculty of WL become more lower......

By the way,prom,the platform of WL's console is PS2......,I had bought the DOJ's PS2 DVD before(with LAOS osada sennin's DVD)so I remembered it very clear,but because of the input lag when using joysticks on LCD screen(on CRT screen or cabinet,there aren't any input lag),I would rather to play the shmupmame emulator on my laptop,with using the DEBUG of mame(actually I mainly play shmupmame4.2,because it's input file can be easier to been analysed by knowing some memory-address,such as 81B3EE(the hyper gauge's address of WL,1p),81B36E(the GP meter's address of WL,1p),81B642(the hyper gauge's address of BL,1p),81B5C2(the GP meter's address of BL,1p))

by the way#2,my area's WL's arcade are still fine(but soundless),but because I really hate the smoke of the arcade,I would rather stay my home to play DOJ......although less efficient,but more comfortable......

[The Armchair General]

I just saw this guy on the matmouse stream all chain stage 3 in WL. I thought that was TAS only .

[harduser]

I just saw this guy on the matmouse stream all chain stage 3 in WL. I thought that was TAS only .

All chain stage 3 in WL isn't “only tas”，but very difficult to implement，at least hitsuji，fac，wfl，sps can finish it，and if you had used slow down/cheat to practice it，it will also be diffcult，but I just succeed in save/load once and devote more than 200 hrs in it，as my point of view，maybe practice can handle lots of problems

[qmish]

Ho do you usually do St1 boss? If i do without bombs/hypers, his pattern near the end when he rotates pods is most risky (and i dont talk about even more angry pattern he'll do if you destroy pods) - do you "ah shit ok i bomb" or you're that good with dodging? It's more chaotic compare to other patterns that he does. Though what a bit helps me is if i dont shoot during that, concentrating more so.

[Stanshall]

Apologies for the bump, gents.

I've been learning to chain stage one and I've got pretty consistent but I have a couple of issues:

- I almost always drop the chain on the last two large ships, and the last three bees, and therefore don't trigger the hyper.

Just before this, I am usually at the top of the screen in hyper trying to pointblank the five medium sized ships. After the last one, I go down to the right and shoot the popcorn, then unlock the bee. I move left and tap shot to keep the chain and pick off the popcorn coming from the top left. Once my hyper ends, I collect the bee, then move left tapping shot and I collect the previous bee I've unlocked. I can then either move up and try to collect the last bee before killing the big ships or try to laser the two ships, left then right, and try to get the double bonus from the last bee. I always always fall short and don't reach it in time. I feel like it's impossible with the route I'm trying.

I've been using Juju Kenobi's excellent chaining guide to help me learn but I can't get this section down at all, and I also feel there must be some way of chaining the last two enemies and then grabbing the last bee.

I've tried and failed with several other options but I feel there must be a way I'm missing so I'm reaching out.

Any help would be massively appreciated. Cheers!

[Stanshall]

Brief update, I figured it out. When the final hyper ends, grab left bee, unlock top left bee, then tap shot to the right bee, laser the right ship, laser the left ship, grab the bee and the hyper. Ta-dah! Really pleased to get a consistent route I can rely on and move onto learning stage 2.

[PROMETHEUS]

gj^^

[Horst Pommel]

So now in 2020, do we know more about the hitboxes in DaiOuJou? I'm a bit confused. Are they indeed misplaced? Some people say it was fixed in black label, but others claim that it actually got worse. On the picture which you can find on the previous page all of the hitboxes seem fine.

I've only played the ps2 version, which is WL. Never noticed anything.

[Horst Pommel]

Ok, nevermind.

I've just zoomed in and counted the pixels. Type B is 27 pixels wide. The hitbox on WL is 6 pixels and 4 on BL. So it actually cannot be in the middle. But it shouldn't be that big of a deal.

[mastermx]

Ok, nevermind.

I've just zoomed in and counted the pixels. Type B is 27 pixels wide. The hitbox on WL is 6 pixels and 4 on BL. So it actually cannot be in the middle. But it shouldn't be that big of a deal.

I had no idea that the hitboxes were so different between versions. Wow...

[Horst Pommel]

Ok, now let's look at the iOS version.

[PROMETHEUS]

I wonder why they didn't just make either the ship models an even number of pixels or the hitbox a odd number of pixels to put them in the middle^^ i guess its not a big deal but still why not. i think it bothered me a little when i first played WL i believe type B but its pretty hard to say (PS2 version). Actually that doesn't make sense because according to that pic the hitbox of Type B WL is perfectly centered with the 4 middle pixels of the ship aspect, but the Type A BL is misaligned by 1 pixel horizontally cause that middle structure thing is not the same size. Well looking at different details its hard to say.. the two white boxes to either side of type B hitbox aren't centered with it. It's like a 3,7% uncertainty or something haha well not insignificant. But also changes during animation left or right @@

[Horst Pommel]

I've tried the iOS version now. According to this, the hitbox is even more off. It's not located directly at the spine (sorry, bad english ^^) of the ship but one pixel to the left. Not sure if this blinking hitbox spot is accurate tbh.

edit: If i choose ship A, the hitbox is flashing directly in the middle.

[Horst Pommel]

https://ibb.co/bPBSnDF

Here you can see type B's hitbox on iOS. But well... not the end of the world. Garegga has the same phenomenon. Maybe this is intentional. You cannot misplace this by accident. You do this because of sadistic tendencies. ^^

[Horst Pommel]

Okaaaaay... O.o I was looking at Ketsui's hitboxes now. Same thing. Type b is a tiny bit off to the left. This indeed seems to be intentional :-O (and proves my theory about sadists...).

edit: Strangely enough... regarding the ketsui hitbox there seem to be two diagrams. One has the hitbox in the center, one to the left. Maybe it's because the latter is taken from the ds port. I don't know.