Sony BVM-14F1U to Component Gamecube 480p

[bobrocks95]

Okay, so I can bump it down a bit and just say he's charging way too much for the monitor then.

[Blair]

I enjoy 240p on a CRT more then 480p, but thats just my taste.

Huh, wouldn't that totally be dependent on the game? Like, you don't want to play Super Mario Galaxy at 240p. That's totally a 480p, 60fps game.

i've actually played Mario Galaxy at 240p, I liked it. (way more then 480i that's for sure) but I'm going to finish it at 480p because Its a widescreen game. (if I had a widescreen CRT monitor I would play it in 240p 16:9)

I'm playing through Dead or Alive 2 Hard*Core and Ikarug (PC) in 240p right now. they look fantastic.

[...] at that point I'm thinking my scanlines would be almost non exsistant

On the contrary, I'm pretty sure they'd be the thickest, chunkiest, darkest scanlines you'd ever see running low-resolution stuff on a very high-resolution, small CRT. Unless I have things flipped around.

To me the scanlines seem more defined the higher the resolution, from the CRTs i've tested.

400-TVL = meh.

600-TVL = Nice, good scanlines.

800-TVL = Great "dark" scanlines and rounding of pixel edges.

1000-TVL+ = fantastic.

[BazookaBen]

i've actually played Mario Galaxy at 240p, I liked it.

This sounds like trying to watch a Blu-ray through a dirty screen door.

[MattDiGit]

Learning lots of new stuff from all of you posting here, its great.

Thanks a lot.

Anyone happen to have any info about the problems I posted I'm having in 4:3 normal mode for 480i?

[Blair]

i've actually played Mario Galaxy at 240p, I liked it.

This sounds like trying to watch a Blu-ray through a dirty screen door.

Not at all, but now that you mention it i have watched some Blu-ray movies in 240p with scanlines. Tron and Tron: Legacy, also Blade Runner.

I thought they looked great. i'm not saying it's the preferred or "definitive" way of watching movies but I think its a nice fun thing to try that gives content a unique look and feel.

I don't watch any content for the first time that way, but for material you're familiar with it's a very neat experience, especially on a CRT monitor.

even watching old school anime is a real treat, I compared a scene with a demon that had these glowing green eyes and even with a properly calibrated lcd the effect was totally different. on the CRT it was almost mesmerizing. (on the LCD it was ok, just really flat with no sense of the glow).

Learning lots of new stuff from all of you posting here, its great.

Thanks a lot.

Anyone happen to have any info about the problems I posted I'm having in 4:3 normal mode for 480i?

can you take a few pictures of it doing that?

[MattDiGit]

I will upload some pics next time I get her up and running.

I have another question for you guys. What do you think of this Panasonic plasma display I have available to me right now? I'm actually in the market for a bigger screen I can keep at home for gaming in the basement wreck room as well. I was thinking since I read on these forums and others that plasmas are good, it may be a nice opportunity to snatch one.

Actually, this screen reminds me quite a lot of the Pioneer Fudoh speaks highly of in this thread:
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=43256

The model number of this screen I have available to me is a Panasonic TH 42PWD4. It also has bnc RGB as well as ypbpr input and seems to support many resoluions.
https://panasonic.ca/PCS/OperatingInstr ... OI-Eng.pdf

Any opinions on this screen? How would input lag be? Should I scoop it up? It is very cheap and looks to be in amazing shape.

[MattDiGit]

Here is a pic of the actual screen in question:

[bobrocks95]

I have a TH-42PWD8UK and prior to that I had a TH-42PWD5UY. Both are great monitors with some caveats, and the generation 4 screen should be very similar to the 5.

-There's some slight interference visible from certain consoles. This is probably due to a combination of cheap cables, an overcrowded setup, the fact that they were corporate models with less strict FCC requirements (doesn't necessarily mean they were any different internally from the consumer models, but maybe), and a neighbor with an annoying as hell ham radio tower in his backyard that we pick up interference from. Could surely fix this in some way but I haven't done so yet. Might not apply to you at all.

-Going by the numbers, input lag was bad with 480i sources- couldn't test 480p at the time, should probably do it again but I don't think I can without ripping my setup apart. This was a poorly done CRT picture method with a crappy camera, and from what I've read, the way plasmas drive their output, it's difficult to test lag on them anyway. I don't feel any noticeable lag when playing a 480p game on it, maybe a little in 480i, but I don't do that often enough to say. YMMV, give it a shot.

-On the 5 series I seem to remember 480i looking better. I'm either remembering wrong or the 8 series uses a (presumably) faster simplistic bob deinterlace or something. Lots of jittery lines, whichever method that's indicative of.

-Doesn't handle 240p properly, unlike the Pioneer set Fudoh has 3 or more of. On a related note, widescreen might be a turn-off for you, but I play plenty of Xbox and Wii titles with widescreen and hack in on plenty of other games on other consoles. Also remember there's no speakers built-in.

-What I would assume is general early plasma issues like the weird noise dithering thing to get more colors to display. Never quite understood all that.

It took me years to find them, but if you've got one available right now give it a shot and see if you like it. It's sleek for an old display and easy to sell off if you don't end up liking it. Personally speaking I don't think any of these downsides outweigh how good 480p content looks on them.

EDIT: The stand alone which I see it has (though that's not the original stand, it's for some other Panasonic plasma) is pretty hard to find and less common than you might think given these things' usage in stores and businesses.

[MattDiGit]

For less than 100 bucks I don't think I can go wrong, your probably right. I'll go have a look tomorrow.

[MattDiGit]

I have a 36" JVC I'Art CRT available to me for free, the person says it goes up to 1080i and is just before HD tvs, it uses a INVAR shadow mask display. Any thoughts on this CRT? Would there be any input lag? Dose it truly display those resolutions or would it be scaling them?

I know, I'm turning into a screen hoader already, lol. I just really want a crt that can display 480p properly. This one would work for the basement and I could also save my pennies on that plasma.

[bobrocks95]

HD Sonys have some lag depending on the input resolution and upscale to various resolutions depending on the input; someone would have to clarify on what is converted to what. I think BazookaBen has clarified before on what they do.

Based on the JVC product page for one of their I'Art's it upscales as well.

[MattDiGit]

I'm probably just going to grab that plasma tomorrow instead and give it a shot. All of the good crts that truly support everything seem like they really are hard to find... Looks like I'll be on the search for a long time until I find one that satisfies me.

[bobrocks95]

As far as I know the multisync BVMs are the only CRTs that don't modify a 480p input. Could very well be wrong on that though. Makes sense that people in broadcasting would want to see the source exactly as it was originally formatted.

[MattDiGit]

Do you know of a list of all the BVM models which support multi-sync by chance? To make my search easier. I know all of the D series do, are there any others?

[Fudoh]

BVM-D14, D20, D24, D32
BVM-A14, A20, A24, A32 (but you need an analogue input board which is hard to find)
PVM-14L5, 20L5

[BazookaBen]

MattDiGit, I really think a PC Trinitron is the way you should go. They have good, native (not scaled) 480p picture, especially if don't mind the small scanlines that most PC CRT's have with 480p. Though the really small screens, like that 15" you were looking at, may have less prominent scanlines. My personal preference is a 21" or 19" PC Trinitron or Diamondtron, because they also look very good with Hi-def consoles and PC's.

The 1080i CRT TV's can do 480p in a sort of funky way, they digitally zoom into a window-boxed 540p image. Depending on your picture settings, the input lag could be small or large with 480p. Lag was barely noticeable at 480p in 4:3 mode, but highly noticeable in 16:9 mode on my Hi-scan Trinitron. So yeah, not quite the ideal situation.

[MattDiGit]

How about the BVM-D9 series? Or is a 9" screen just too small for gaming?

Just wondering, because I scoped one on eBay for pretty cheap, which said it supports all the same resolutions as the bigger models.

I have been looking at all sorts of monitors as well, BazookaBen. It isn't out of the question at all. A multi-sync BVM would just be my personal preferance, looking like I might have to settle for the latter though.

[BazookaBen]

You can probably get the JVC TV for free, or like $10. Since it's 36", it weighs over 200lbs, and the owners won't want to move it themselves. They just want to get rid of it. So the bargaining power is on your side.

So since you can get it for so cheap, no harm in giving it a try, if you can find somebody to help you lift it. 480p does look good on these sorts of CRT's, since it is true 480p, it's just not 100% lag free. But it might be low enough for what games you're playing.

[MattDiGit]

Bit of a necro bump, thought I would follow up with this topic and keep it going since I'm still playing with monitors. I like all the input I have been getting to help me in my search.

I ended up selling my BVM and made some profit on it, enough to basically pick up the Panasonic plasma for free. I have been playing with it for a while now and I find it to be pretty nice for my gamecube use.

Picture is very sharp in 480p, it looks really good. Almost no input lag as far as I can tell (compaired to my laggy 50" Sony LCD in the living room). It also has a built in amplifier so hooking up sound was pretty easy, just plugged in some old polk speakers I had laying around, sounds great.

Not the best picture because it was sunny and had a lot of glare going on, still looks nice though. I'll get some better ones up soon.


I'm still on the lookout for BVMs, truly infatuated with all of them, saving money to buy a few maybe. I been really eyeing the D9 BVM, it says it supports 480p. It would be cool to have even just as a novelty, any thoughts on it? Pretty small, but would still be playable for sure. I would enjoy having a high quality crt with me on the road, even @ only 9". The 14" I had was still pretty heavy and hard to lug around, 9" seems like it would be perfect.

[BazookaBen]

you're stretching it. Is that the only way to prevent burn-in on plasmas?

[bobrocks95]

you're stretching it. Is that the only way to prevent burn-in on plasmas?

You stretch it or you deal with gray pillarbars on the sides. It's why I got into widescreen hacks.

EDIT: Later EDTVs Panasonic made (I know my 5 series didn't have it but my 8 series does) also offer sub-orbital shifting or whatever it's called, but on a 42" display that's only 854x480 it looks hilariously obvious as it shifts the whole picture over by a pixel. I disabled it pretty quickly.

Burn-in probably isn't a huge concern, but uneven panel wear definitely is, at least at certain points in its lifetime. On mine the middle pixels are already darker than one nearer the left and right sides, though not by much.

[MattDiGit]

Back again.

So, I have a BVM D14H5U available to me right now. It has a mfg date of 2005, was a rental when it was in service and likely has very low hours of use. It is available to me for $150, I have seen pictures and it looks to be in excellent condition.

Also take into account I have to drive a bit to pick it up, so gas and time has to be factored into the cost. I'm told it has been tested and is in perfect working order, so it still seems like a good deal to me, considering it is an HD muti format model with 800 lines in SD modes.

Has anyone had any experience with this particular model? Will it have any issues with displaying my GC @ 480p resolution via component cable?

Any thoughts are apreciated, I need to reply soon.

Edit: It does include the RGB/YPbPr card as well.

[BazookaBen]

Bring your Wii with the 240p test-suite to test it.

If it's in as good shape as the seller says, then I know you'll get really good picture, given you're ok with the tiny screen size. Whether it's worth $150 will be really subjective, given the market isn't exactly flooded with BVM's

[MattDiGit]

All I have is GC at the moment, I'm also guessing I won't have anywhere to test it when I pick it up, considering it is in a storage unit.

I'm not too worried about it not working when I get it home though, I've seen pictures of it working which were taken recently. It also had a very short service life judging by the mfg date, very good condition and the fact it was a rental; I really can't see there being any issues with it condition wise. It should be near mint shape.

More worried about when I get it home, having problems with this particular model displaying all resolutions correctly without any issues, as it advertises in the specs. I want to be able to play ALL or at least most of my retro consoles down the road on this one screen.

I'm quite happy with the 14" size, my eyes are fairly keen and I actually prefer smaller screens. I also like the fact they are a lot more portable and easy to move around than the bigger BVM/PVM models. They also take up less space in your hourse, since crts are massive and heavy and I don't have a lot of room, those assets are a huge plus for me.

[MattDiGit]

I seen a few old threads on here about people having issues with them, but that is about it. I guess that is also to be expected though since people usually come here to look for help with these things.

Although, I thoroughly scanned the old G and couldn't find much about people gaming on this specific model either...

Really hoping for some solid input from someone who has used one of these for gaming before I make the purchase.

[bobrocks95]

It's a multisync BVM... It's going to do 240p to 720p without any scaling. The 4:3 version has 800 TVL while the 16:9 version has 600 TVL.

What's your hesitation? Isn't this exactly what you were looking for before?

[MattDiGit]

I believe the hesitation is quite valid really, for the reasons stated above. Advertising to be able to do something and actually being able to do it are two completely different things. I was hoping to get someone who has had some actual hands on experience with these particular D model.

These were designed to be a broadcast monitor, not a gaming screen, whether or not it is good for this application comes down to actual testing, such as what has been done with other bigger BVM models. The fact that I have to shell out a nice chunck of change, drive over an hour and maybe invest more money in other parts to set it up after is the reason for the hesitation. I believe it is perfectly valid.

Also, they are both the same model, it has 800 lines. It displays 800 lines in SD modes and 600 in HD modes, there are not two different models. I also mentioned that in an ealier post, and that fact could also play a role in why it may have issues at higher resolutions. They use detactable masks to display 16:9/4:3, comes with both a 4:3 and 16:9 mask out of the box. The bigger models, such as the D24 for example, they display 1000 lines at both HD and SD formats, because they have a 16:9 widescreen crt by default. The smaller models all have 4:3 crts, hence why you get less lines in HD 16:9 modes.

I'm starting to think my posts here are not being fully read, lol.

[Einzelherz]

I'm starting to think my posts here are not being fully read, lol.

No, you're posting in a forum of people who understand the rarity of these monitors. People who own them and have already shown, ad nauseum, that they're fantastic for video games. They even told you that this monitor will be great, but because there isn't someone chiming in who has THIS EXACT MODEL WITH A GAMECUBE TO TEST IT WITH you think we're ignoring you.

I personally drove five hours for my PVM. I don't regret it at all. Several people put in more time than me.

You know what outcome hesitation usually causes? Missing out on a time sensitive purchase.

[bobrocks95]

Advertising to be able to do something and actually being able to do it are two completely different things.

When you're selling monitors to the professional market at several thousands of dollars a pop, those two categories better line up absolutely perfectly.

Everything Einzelherz said is correct, and there is absolutely zero reason to believe that these would have a different chassis than larger monitors in the same series. The spec sheet is not lying, and there's no reason for you to think it would be in the professional sector.

As a final note if your main hesitation was 240p support know that 240p is just a hack of 480i- if a CRT monitor supports a 15kHz horizontal scan rate it supports both. Maybe this is what you were worried about?