Best Cave Shooter of All Time

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Squire Grooktook
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Re: Best Cave Shooter of All Time

Post by Squire Grooktook »

chum wrote:
Squire Grooktook wrote:For a survival horror or adventure game or something, aesthetics matter a lot to me.

But to me, they're completely extraneous in shmups and fighting games, and icing on the cake at absolute best.
I see what you're saying and I'm still torn about how much I agree on this.

I think almost anyone will agree that CAVE games provide a good experience in terms of gameplay, but the fact that I don't like the style so much probably hinders my enjoyment. Enjoying just looking at and feeling the game you're playing, regardless of what you're actually doing in the game, can make a difference, at least for me.
Yeah, it's naturally going to vary from person to person ^_^

I do appreciate that feeling of enjoying what you're looking at, but I guess I've come to disregard it in shmups because, like I said, the genre as a whole just doesn't appeal to me aestheticly at all.

When I'm playing Dark Souls or a weapon-based fighting game, I sometimes have to marvel at the lovingly crafted martial swordplay animations, and the beauty of how the human form moves with those sword strokes...during the less intense moments, at least. When I'm playing Kirby or a Mario game, I have to marvel at how adorable and whimsical everything is (which I can generally get away with since the games aren't too intense). When I'm playing 90% of shmups, I just can't feel anything but apathy towards what is essentially a big metal triangle floating around, often times with little or nothing to set it apart from every other big metal triangle flying around in existence. The environments/backgrounds can still be nice though, but characters are at the heart of any aesthetic for me.

But of course, that's another reason why the aesthetic in games like Guwange and Cybattler resonate with me so much.
Last edited by Squire Grooktook on Mon Mar 14, 2016 9:05 am, edited 7 times in total.
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1up
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Re: Best Cave Shooter of All Time

Post by 1up »

I have a feeling every CAVE game is going to be mentioned in this thread.

My vote goes to Mushihimesama Futari
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davyK
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Re: Best Cave Shooter of All Time

Post by davyK »

Tough to pick one.

DoDonPachi for its influence.

Deathsmiles for its accessibility

Mushi Futari (1.5 or BL) for sheer entertainment value.


If I have to pick one then it's DoDonPachi. They never really got over creating that game.
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Re: Best Cave Shooter of All Time

Post by PAPER/ARTILLERY »

DOJ for me, I love the dark, apocalyptic style and atmosphere, helped along by some great music. The gameplay in Black Label is well balanced too - tough enough to feel challenging to me but it always feels fair. In my opinion it simply improves on DDP in all areas.
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philsublime
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Re: Best Cave Shooter of All Time

Post by philsublime »

As a "beginner" it's hard to tell. I don't really like ketsui because I don't get it. Maybe as a more advanced player, I will change my mind. I played the international version of mushihimesama futar bl and loved it. It's when I got this "zen" feeling for the first time playing a stg. Everytime I played that game, I got better, and I couldn't tell why :D Also, at first I didn't even notice the beatiful art, but as I got better, I started to notice the sprites and backgrounds. It's like my Focus shifted away from my ship...

However, I love dodonpachi at the moment, because it's simple and brutal at the same time. Also I love the art style. I think I will one day have another favorite... It just feels much more like work at the moment.
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Re: Best Cave Shooter of All Time

Post by trap15 »

Even the graphics? Really?...
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Xyga
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Re: Best Cave Shooter of All Time

Post by Xyga »

DOJ is the ugliest Cave by far, and the original non-arranged musics are totally forgettable if not irritating.
It being the best IKD-school in terms of gameplay and mechanics/design kind of blinds people who love it for that IMHO.
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Cuilan
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Re: Best Cave Shooter of All Time

Post by Cuilan »

Seriously, Deathsmiles is the complete package:

A fun scoring system
Great music
Great graphics
Great aesthetics
Lots of player agency
Lots of hot waifus

It's really not surprising that it was Cave's most successful shooter.
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Illyrian
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Re: Best Cave Shooter of All Time

Post by Illyrian »

Futari BL by a large margin.

Incredibly satisfying scoring in Maniac and God, and aN amazing scoring system in original allowing you to rank down on the fly and accumulate great scores in a tense environment.

Also the best Bullet patterns ever, beautiful and at the right speed so you can learn them and dodge them from memory but also have a fair shot at dodging on the fly while you are learning.
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SYJourney
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Re: Best Cave Shooter of All Time

Post by SYJourney »

DOJ by gameplay, scoring and flow.
ESPGaluda by aesthetics and presentation.
Pink Sweets for the most interesting.
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Re: Best Cave Shooter of All Time

Post by sven666 »

easy, akai katana matsuri and dodonpachi campaign version.. why? cause hardly any of you tossers have played em! :mrgreen: :twisted: :mrgreen:
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Re: Best Cave Shooter of All Time

Post by arcade-stg »

Xyga wrote:DOJ is the ugliest Cave by far, and the original non-arranged musics are totally forgettable if not irritating.
It being the best IKD-school in terms of gameplay and mechanics/design kind of blinds people who love it for that IMHO.
Top 25 Shmups of All Time

01. Battle Garegga (ARC/SAT) 8.10
02. Ketsui ~Kizuna Jigoku Tachi~ (ARC/360/PS3) 7.98
03. Mushihimesama Futari / 1.5 / Black Label (ARC/360) 6.98
04. DoDonPachi Dai-Ou-Jou / Black Label (ARC/360/etc.) 6.96

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=56559

It looks like a lot of people love the game. if your preferences are not shared by the majority it doesn't mean that people are blind. 8)
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Xyga
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Re: Best Cave Shooter of All Time

Post by Xyga »

Think I've missed that really ? Youre missing my point, it's one of the most quintessential shmups of its kind so of course it's ranked very high, but that doesn't make it a beautiful game at all.
Like 95% of that game's strenghts are found in the gameplay/scoring and that's it, I just question those who say it looks and sounds good, nothing else.
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AxelMill
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Re: Best Cave Shooter of All Time

Post by AxelMill »

I am, and always will be, in no position to deem a Cave game their best, so I'll merely mention the two I liked the most.
Mushihimesama, thanks to its wonderful atmosphere, soundtrack and stages, and Ibara Kuro which, despite me not enjoying Yagawa games at all (Garegga's stage one theme is excellent, though), I fell in love with as soon as I started playing it.
I sunk more time into DFK than these two combined, maybe, but I didn't enjoy it as much as I did these two, as of now.
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Re: Best Cave Shooter of All Time

Post by Cee »

Xyga wrote:Think I've missed that really ? Youre missing my point, it's one of the most quintessential shmups of its kind so of course it's ranked very high, but that doesn't make it a beautiful game at all.
Like 95% of that game's strenghts are found in the gameplay/scoring and that's it, I just question those who say it looks and sounds good, nothing else.
You don't really understand subjectivity do you? If people say they love the look and sound of DOJ then take it that they simply do instead of some annoying bullshit theory you dreamed up in your head to justify their preference.
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Squire Grooktook
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Re: Best Cave Shooter of All Time

Post by Squire Grooktook »

I think the music and atmosphere in stage 1 and 2 in doj are very nice.

Stage 3 and 4, eh.

Stage 5 is cool again though.
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Xyga
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Re: Best Cave Shooter of All Time

Post by Xyga »

Cee wrote:You don't really understand subjectivity do you? If people say they love the look and sound of DOJ then take it that they simply do instead of some annoying bullshit theory you dreamed up in your head to justify their preference.
Oh my! looks like I touched a sensitive area. Sorry dear. :wink:
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Re: Best Cave Shooter of All Time

Post by vvv_stg »

I have no idea what you are talking about, DOJ has a wondeful soundtrack, and the environment design is top notch. Especially stage 3. Now, it's no Progear, but that's comparing it to one of the most beautiful shmups ever made.

I think Ketsui is by far my favorite Cave shmup, definitely the one I've played the most. It is one of the few games where I actually genuinely love everything about the gameplay: the ship types, the lock-on mechanic, the stage design, the difficulty curve, the bullet patterns... And the scoring system is extremely well done: it's easy to understand, you can start scoring on the fly, it has the right risk-reward trade-off, boss milking is risky but not tedious, and of course the empty lock mechanic gives it an enormous room for improvement and optimization, to the extent that SPS has managed to push it from 500m to almost 600m ten years after the game was released. Oh, and of course the visual design and the soundtrack are both solid. The loop conditions are punishing, but still better than DOJWL; the fact that two loops have fundamentally different scoring makes it work very well, though I can imagine this being annoying in the arcade setting.
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Re: Best Cave Shooter of All Time

Post by Giest118 »

DOJ is the shittiest game ever made, except for Battle Garegga, which is the even shittier-est game ever made.

lol j/k it's good.

It's some mashup of SDOJ, Ketsui, and MushiFutari Original for me.
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Re: Best Cave Shooter of All Time

Post by gray117 »

doj ... and yep it's beautiful imho.

Actual reasons why, you're welcome to disagree :

It's the perfect balance of 2d/3d production in a 2d game for me - really feels like the pinnacle/swansong of an arcade era to me: whether it is or isn't feels like all palette based work, 1 bit alphas perfectly balanced to the overall resolution. Most since try too hard and achieve less with it in relation to game style imho, and invariably include more elements that just bring their more contextual baggage to the table.
It's basically a worked up version of aforementioned ddp's simplicity and boldness, yet a touch more refined, whilst preserving all the savagery and grittiness of the format.
Only weakness imho are the end of stage screens.
Music is pretty great, not sure where the lack of memorability comes in, off the top of my head: Touch of majesty in a lot of it, good boss theme, stage 4, game over, announcer, warning ... Only one I actually don't get on with is the end theme.

... but xyga and I are just different. He chose pink sweets, and described elements in doj as irritating ;)
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Re: Best Cave Shooter of All Time

Post by Harpuia »

I'm surprised that people take issue with the way Daioujou looks and sounds. It's not as colorful as Dodonpachi or most of Cave's games, but I think it pulls off the gritty, industrial/apocalyptic feeling quite well and most of the mechanical designs for the bosses are very cool. Good soundtrack too, especially the stage 4, 5, and boss themes.
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Re: Best Cave Shooter of All Time

Post by Skykid »

trap15 wrote:
chempop wrote:How can one of CAVE's most ugly games be their best, let alone perfection?
Was kinda about to ask the same thing. A game can't be perfect if it has glaring flaws.
DOJ has glaring flaws?

It's not ugly either, fuck that noise. It's a thing of beauty.
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Xyga
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Re: Best Cave Shooter of All Time

Post by Xyga »

kewl a DOJ war ! shall we make a poll ? "DOJ = ugly / beautiful"

:P
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Re: Best Cave Shooter of All Time

Post by monouchi »

Annual list sums it up quite good.
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Re: Best Cave Shooter of All Time

Post by blag »

Futari 1.5 and Black Label are my personal favourites but I've sunk a lot of hours into their games and enjoyed them all.
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Re: Best Cave Shooter of All Time

Post by copy-paster »

b8 goes wrong, m8.
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Re: Best Cave Shooter of All Time

Post by trap15 »

Skykid wrote:It's not ugly either, fuck that noise. It's a thing of beauty.
Image
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So beautiful :roll:
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Squire Grooktook
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Re: Best Cave Shooter of All Time

Post by Squire Grooktook »

It's not as fun as Dangun, but I actually like the way it looks. Stage 1 in DOJ has a gorgeous, rain and gloom soaked atmosphere seeping through its desolate and lonely lunar slum.
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Instead I am stuck in the America's where women rule with an iron crotch, and a man could get arrested for sitting behind a computer too long.
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Bananamatic
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Re: Best Cave Shooter of All Time

Post by Bananamatic »

trap15 wrote: So beautiful :roll:
you don't even have scanlines on it dude...
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Re: Best Cave Shooter of All Time

Post by iconoclast »

Futari God Mode is as close to flawless as a STG can get, so it's Cave's best.
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