OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

[Fudoh]

TFTCentral. Basically no input lag, just pixel response time: http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/images/acer_xb271hk/lag.jpg

[BuckoA51]

Nice Now all I need is for them to do a 40" version

[Fudoh]

I'm not sure if 60Hz G-SYNC is what we want. I don't care this much for 120, 144 or 165Hz, but if I paid the money for a G-SYNC monitor I would want at least 70+Hz to be able to play DOS games smoothly.

[BuckoA51]

Yeah that would be good tbh, so I want 40", gsync to at least 70hz and no input lag. Oh and something as good as Motionflow for 24p sources.. Moon on a stick?

[Xyga]

I'd accept a 60Hz G-Sync only if the panel had perfect (or very close) pixel response. That would mean the best IPS ever or OLED...tough.
32" to 40" for me but not bigger than that.

BTW: many 1080p monitors manage 72~75Hz without issues, has anyone tested the current few 32" 4K for that ?
Oops we're OT.

[Rune]

A quick question regarding the lag on that Acer monitor. I run a dual monitor set up with a ASUS VG278H (1080p, 120hz) and a Acer Predator XB281HK which is basically the same model as the one Fudoh just mentioned but an inch bigger.

The ASUS one has always had a relatively low input lag compared to most panels on the market, but its nothing compared to what the new Acer monitors apparently have.
I thought I'd do a quick check before heading off to work by mirroring the two screens and running a stopwatch. The photos I took with an iPhone showed the lag to be exactly the same every time I tried.

Now the question is, would that be because the ASUS (even though the lag isnt as small) has 1ms response time compared to the Acer's 4ms?
I'm basically wondering, do you still benefit from low input lag if the response time on that same panel is higher?

[BuckoA51]

Response time has nothing to do with input lag and your iPhone camera is nowhere near fast enough for that kind of comparison really. Also, how did you mirror them? If you did it through the PC that can throw off the test too.

[Rune]

I'm no expert but here's my understanding of it (cuz I'm not sure you understand where I'm coming from).
If I have two displays wth the same source (in this case a desktop running a stop watch), taking a snap shot with any sort of camera would capture the different time stamps that each display was showing at that exact moment in time. How "fast" or "slow" the camera is should have no influence on the difference between the time stamps.

Now I understand the difference between pixel response timing and input lag. One is to do with how quick the pixels can change on the panel and the other is how quick the panel responds to input.
My point is, if a panel very low input latency but at the same time displays pixel changes at a slower rate, can we the end user benefit from the low input latency?

I mirrored the screens through the computer, which might make a difference like you said. I have a HDMI splitter that I'll be trying soon to further test this.

[mongusa32]

So possible for OSSC to do 4k/2400p witout lag one day? Btw, who designed the OSSC logo/font? It's really starting to grow on me

[ApolloBoy]

So is the OSSC actually available now and if so, how much is it? This thread is so full of nonsense (why are we going on a tangent about refresh rates all of a sudden?) that it's hard to find any useful info.

[Fudoh]

first batch is pre-sold out. Final price isn't set yet. Markus mentioned that it wouldn't be too far from the 159 EUR offered so far. I said "under 200 EUR" in the review.

Btw, who designed the OSSC logo/font?

I did the "finnish" logo when writing the review. More or less because there was no official logo or font (yet).

[marqs]

So possible for OSSC to do 4k/2400p witout lag one day?

Not in a near future.

OSSC logo/font? It's really starting to grow on me

If you're talking about the one in Fudoh's page, that's by him. It's not an official logo or anything though

So is the OSSC actually available now and if so, how much is it? This thread is so full of nonsense (why are we going on a tangent about refresh rates all of a sudden?) that it's hard to find any useful info.

A number of DIY kits have already been sold in 100-110EUR, and first batch of pre-assembled boards are currently in manufacturing as we speak. The reservation queue for the latter is quite long so if you're not already there you'll need to wait months for one.

[master_d]

Hi marqs I signed up late after initial batch of preorders was filled, but requested a DIY kit. Will you be offering the remaining DIY kits after the initial batch of preassembled boards go out or can I order one in kit form now?

[Thomago]

@marqs:

I already asked this but since there was no answer... any word on when preordering preassembled OSSCs via the VideoGamePerfection.com store will become available?

[marqs]

Hi marqs I signed up late after initial batch of preorders was filled, but requested a DIY kit. Will you be offering the remaining DIY kits after the initial batch of preassembled boards go out or can I order one in kit form now?

Schedule of DIY kits is independent from pre-assembled boards, so they'll go out as soon as I get all components ready to ship. Currently the bottleneck are PCBs, which take 3+ weeks to manufacture. If you made your DIY kit reservation before 2016, you can expect it to ship in a few weeks. Speaking of that, last week I sent a confirmation e-mail to some first people with DIY-kit reservation, and only half of those have responded by now. Maybe my e-mails get easily flagged as spam or something... I'll have to try contacting again those missing people.

I already asked this but since there was no answer... any word on when preordering preassembled OSSCs via the VideoGamePerfection.com store will become available?

Please subscribe to the newsletter to get latest updates about that. All pre-assembled boards (except the first batch which I'm handling personally to minimize delays etc.) will be sold through VideoGamePerfection.com. I want to see that first batch succeed before ordering subsequent batches - otherwise it'd be just risking large sums of money. Unfortunately that means some people have to wait, but there's not much I can do about that.

[RocketBelt]

Yes that sums it up perfectly, if you're playing a fast action game on PS2 then the ossc single field deinterlacing is probably ideal. Switch to an RPG and it would be great to be able to pass the interlaced signal through to a slower but (perhaps) prettier deinterlacer (e.g. dvdo game mode 2). Is it a possibility?

It should be possible, but I have to find out a monitor accepting 480i over HDMI to try it out. For PS2, the best solution still would be forcing the game to run in progressive scan mode with GSM, right? I'm aware that it has compatibility issues with some games, though.

That's great news, if you have access to an LG TV try that, mine accepts 480i and 576i over hdmi. (and 240p and 720x288 - none of this is in the manual)
PS2 games can be forced to progressive with GSM, and it works well for some. But for many (most?) enforcing 480p results in either losing half the vertical resolution, or just plain doesn't work. There's some info about it here http://psx-scene.com/forums/f291/frame- ... ty-111435/ (Pixelation issue).

[Avrel]

Hello,

I have been lurking this subject for quite some time (and luckily made it to pre-reservation of the first batch of preassembled board).
I am far from being an expert on how do all the analog video works, so I might say stupid stuff, sorry if that is the case…
My main usage of the OSSC will be for a N64 PAL RGB modded (the French model, that has a RGB circuit already integrated in the motherboard). I am using it with an original SNES RGB cable (it seems that there are a lot of different cables with all kinds of resistance, condensators inside… no idea what it does).

1) Status and Aspect Ratio
I did the complete mod, except for the Zener diode which pilots the pin 8 of the SCART (Status & Aspect Ratio). So instead of sending a 12V signal (for on/4:3) I send 0V (so no automatic commutation, and when I manually select the input on the TV set, it is considered as 16/9 and I have to change it manually to 4/3).
Will that be a problem with the OSSC? Is it using the info from pin 8 at all? If yes, can I manually override the info?

2) Sync
From my understanding, the RGB mod provides both composite video as sync and sync on luma and no csync. (If there is any N64 expert please correct me).
In this case, what sync signal will the OSSC take into consideration? Is it possible to switch from one to the other (to check the better result)?

3) Switch 240p – 480i
It seems that the N64 does a lot of these switches… What happens if I run a game in 240p line tripled (assuming my monitor accepts it) and it switches to 480i (which has no line tripling mode)?
By the way why can 480i not be line tripled, since if I understood correctly, the 480i is taking each half frame and doubling the lines. Why would tripled not be possible?

4) Remote
I am using a Harmony universal remote. Is there a commercial device that has the same remote so I can use it to easily parameter in the Harmony software?
If not I can still use the IR learning mode.

That is all the questions I have so far, and have not been answered before (Or I didn’t understand the answer because it was too technical for me…)
Thanks

[Thomago]

I want to see that first batch succeed before ordering subsequent batches - otherwise it'd be just risking large sums of money.

Good call. I wish you all the best!

[meneerbeer]

It seems that the N64 does a lot of these switches… What happens if I run a game in 240p line tripled (assuming my monitor accepts it) and it switches to 480i (which has no line tripling mode)?
By the way why can 480i not be line tripled, since if I understood correctly, the 480i is taking each half frame and doubling the lines. Why would tripled not be possible?

I think because of this: 480i has 262.5 lines per field. If you double it, you end up with 525 lines, which is exactly the amount that a 480p frame has. If you triple it, you get 787.5 lines. In that case it is again interlaced (and also a very weird resolution).

Linedoubling 240p results in 526 lines, if a frame consists of 263 lines. As far as I know this is not the amount the 480p standard specifies, but we have yet to find a TV that minds.

[BuckoA51]

After some exhaustive testing my first preview is up - http://www.videogameperfection.com/2016 ... irst-look/

Do let me know your thoughts!

[lettuce]

So whats the deal with this line-triple feature?, i take it that instead of line double (480), line-triple is 720??

[Thomago]

After some exhaustive testing my first preview is up - http://www.videogameperfection.com/2016 ... irst-look/

Do let me know your thoughts!

Huh... I guess I won't have any problems with my unmodified US-SNES, but nevertheless I hope something can be done about the picture instability.

[BuckoA51]

Yeah I'm sure it will get sorted out in time.

[Shuco13]

After some exhaustive testing my first preview is up - http://www.videogameperfection.com/2016 ... irst-look/

Do let me know your thoughts!

ok

[n64]...or the lack of noise in the image finally brings out detail that’s usually lost, but the results were great and the image was perfectly stable.

I'm aware that you can't get rid of the noise with the mini but have you even considered correcting color space on the framemeister?

For some reason, I experienced infrequent but annoying picture black-outs with the Wii, but I haven’t had time to fully investigate the cause of this just yet.

Sounds the same like what happens with other transcoders. Makes it somehow a dealbreaker to me.

[Fudoh]

oh nice, you already got one of the new remotes (actually the third version now). It looks as it's coming from the same factory that does the Dune remotes. Should feel and perform ok, right ?

On the auto low pass filter option: you didn't get any blurring with the SD setting ? Especially with a PS2 it nearly reminded me of the XRGB's LPF option when used with 480p sources. Really noticable, while the HDTV setting cleared it all up. The EDTV setting made the picture rather unstable, but Markus mentioned that the phase setting should fix that. Didn't get around trying that though, since HD1 aced it.

The ability to switch between 720x480p and 640x480p sampling for VGA inputs not only affects the aspect ratio, but also the display of fine details. If you take a 1px checkerboard pattern (either on the test suite or GGX if you want a real game) you'll see that the wrong setting blurs some areas of the screen. The aspect ratio should be slightly off though, if you chose the proper sampling mode. With the 720x480p sampling which makes checkerboard patterns appear perfectly fine the 720x480p area should be displayed in 4:3 on your TV. But this includes the black bars on both sides (see the difference between the white DC boot screen and the actual game screen), so the remaining active image will turn out more like 1.25:1. That's the exact same affect you get when using a DC -> VGA Box -> YUV transcoder setup.

The SFC I used for testing was a japanese 1CHIP-03 unit with a custom cable using luma for sync. The MD I was using is a japanese VA3 unit with a LM1881 fed through the CSYNC line.

[BuckoA51]

Couple things since I'm kinda sleepy.

Fudoh - I only tried the PS2 through RGB. HDTV1 setting just seems to add heaps of noise for me on most sources. Pretty much every time the Auto setting picked the best setting.

With the Dreamcast my TV overscans the image a tiny bit so I can't measure the circles completely accurately, but they looked pretty spot on.

Shuco - I guess I just never really liked N64 via the Mini so never played it much, since the HDMI mod came along obviously I've not gone back to it.

Also I should have made it clear, my Wii and Xbox are already transcoded from component to RGB. However, I've used the Wii quite a bit with this transcoder and never experienced picture blackout. I will find my spare component cables for a proper test soon, but I've certainly heard of the Wii having unexplained picture drop out issues before.

[marqs]

I think because of this: 480i has 262.5 lines per field. If you double it, you end up with 525 lines, which is exactly the amount that a 480p frame has. If you triple it, you get 787.5 lines. In that case it is again interlaced (and also a very weird resolution).

Exactly

Linedoubling 240p results in 526 lines, if a frame consists of 263 lines. As far as I know this is not the amount the 480p standard specifies, but we have yet to find a TV that minds.

Yeah, the display with smallest tolerance I've tried is my Panasonic plasma. It only accepts 525+-1 lines, which is okay for most home consoles. However, there are systems like AES that output 264 lines, and then arcade boards have wildly varying line counts too in "240p" mode.

I only tried the PS2 through RGB. HDTV1 setting just seems to add heaps of noise for me on most sources. Pretty much every time the Auto setting picked the best setting.

With DC and later consoles, it's important to readjust phase after changing LPF mode - otherwise it may seem like some LPF setting has more noise when in reality the sampling phase could just be inoptimal for that setting. Automatic phase select (like in LCD monitors with VGA input) would be great, but I'm not sure if that can be done easily.

[BuckoA51]

Opened my Megadrive and turns out it's a VA5 Japanese unit. I looked at the caps but can't see any obvious sign of leaks or bulging. It's image is noisy though, less so on the Mini but it's definitely there.

For whatever reason there's no cap kit listed for VA5 at http://console5.com/ so I can't easily get it re-capped to see if that's the problem.

[Thomago]

Just looked through the new entries of the compatibility list (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0).

Actually, what is it with the jitter? I've already seen these artifacts in one of the Chrono Cross videos posted earlier and I've never experienced anything like that with any of the video capture devices I've used.
Is being prone to jittering inherent to the OSSC's hardware design or is this something that can be fixed for good (respectively for anything but rare exceptions)?

[cleeg]

One thing I wondered, how does the device handle Sonic 2's split screen resolution? Also, say it handles it fine would this then be able to go through the XRGB Mini if need be?