OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

[ApolloBoy]

Are you sure it's not because those converters don't take PAL video?

[Fudoh]

Anyone who was hoping to use that Lindy S-Video to component/RGB transcoder with the OSSC, well, I've had two from Amazon now and neither work with the C64. Instead of a stable picture, the image just constantly rolls up the screen. I've tried two different TVs plus the DVDO Edge and XRGB Mini, same on all. Obviously I tried the C64 direct to the TV/Scalers too and it's perfectly stable.

Entech's component integrators and the Sony RGB transcoders both work fine. I used the Entech on a number of processors on the Sony on a BVM.

I think the cheapest way these days is just to get a 2nd hand DVD recorder. There are enough defective ones available for less than 10 EUR, that are ditched because the DVD drives or HDDs are broken. Friend of mine got a Pioneer unit for 1 EUR off ebay. As long as they power up you can usually use them to convert the inputs to whatever output they offer. European units got RGB output. My Pioneer DVR got component and RGB outputs.

Some of them will likely shift 240p to 480i, but others should be able to keep the format intact.

[BuckoA51]

Are you sure it's not because those converters don't take PAL video?

PAL is supported according to the documentation.

Entech's component integrators and the Sony RGB transcoders both work fine. I used the Entech on a number of processors on the Sony on a BVM.

I used to have the Sony transcoder, in fact if you remember Fudoh you actually gave it to me for cost of postage I think (thank you ). It did /almost/ work with the C64, there certainly wasn't any rolling picture, but I was trying to get a stable image on the XRGB3 and unfortunately it had that classic warped picture problem (like the PC Engine) and adjusting AFC causes sync instability and dropouts... I've no reason to think that the Sony transcoder won't work perfectly with the OSSC though, so that's yet another bit of hardware I've sold/passed on and lived to regret it

The Entech things are rare as rocking horse dung sadly.

I think the cheapest way these days is just to get a 2nd hand DVD recorder.

An inelegant solution but yeah should work if you're desperate for S-video transcoding. Fingers crossed for the community to come up with a better solution in time though.

[RocketBelt]

Would it be possible (with a firmware update?) to pass through 480i/576i to without deinterlacing?
So if you were playing an RPG you could let another device do real deinterlacing without re-cabling.

[Guspaz]

There is no technical reason why you can't output 480i over HDMI, but support for it is spotty both in terms of devices allowing it to be outputted, or devices that can handle it as input.

The question is, why would you? Isn't the whole point of the OSSC to convert 240p/480i to 480p? Otherwise you could just use component direct/converted to the TV or something.

[BuckoA51]

I think most TVs support 480i over HDMI, certainly I never encountered problems testing the HDMI Gamecube in this mode, I don't know about monitors though.

As to why would you, convenience of course, 240p you'd always want handled by OSSC, but 480i is different. Depending on what you were playing, you could switch between the OSSC deinterlacing (fast but potentially ugly) and your TVs deinterlacing (usually much nicer, but lots of input lag) by the flick of a remote button. Splitting the output from, say, a PS2 so that you could route direct to your TV then through to the OSSC too would be quite inconvenient don't you think?

[RocketBelt]

Yes that sums it up perfectly, if you're playing a fast action game on PS2 then the ossc single field deinterlacing is probably ideal. Switch to an RPG and it would be great to be able to pass the interlaced signal through to a slower but (perhaps) prettier deinterlacer (e.g. dvdo game mode 2). Is it a possibility?

[blitter]

Are the pins for composite/S-video on the SCART connector wired to the FPGA and other necessary circuitry on the OSSC? Even if there's no immediate firmware update on the horizon, it would be nice to know if the hardware could support such an update in the future. Personally I am hoping for one because among my collection of RGB-modded systems, only my Atari VCS is the outlier with S-video output.

[Fudoh]

The pins are connected, since composite is transmitted on the sync line and s-video uses sync + red. BUT the update isn't possible. The A/D converter between the inputs and the FPGA isn't capable to handle composite or s-video - just RGB and component.

[traal]

1920x960 might be possible, but it'd require new PLL configurations. It'd be close to the limits of the FPGA since currently timing analyzer reports 135MHz as the maximum for pixel clock.

How about 1440x960? I think that's what a Dreamcast needs in order to display at the proper aspect ratio without artifacts. Could we get a screenshot or video of a Dreamcast running the 240p test suite's "Linearity" test pattern and the 480p version of the checkerboard pattern? (Select Checkerboard, then press the A button to switch from 240p to 480p.) Thanks!

[ApolloBoy]

Personally I am hoping for one because among my collection of RGB-modded systems, only my Atari VCS is the outlier with S-video output.

It doesn't have to be the outlier anymore now that there's an RGB mod available: http://etim.net.au/2600rgb/

[ZellSF]

What was the final decision on HDMI 5v? I think my HDMI switch uses 5v for auto switching so I really want that.

edit: nvm, found it (apparently yes with resettable fuse). Perfect, now my setup will almost be entirely automated once I get hold of good automatic SCART switcher. Oh, another thing I'll have to be on a ridiculous waiting list for?

edit2: though I suppose 5v would always be active while the device is on so maybe that won't work too well for me

[ZellSF]

Any chance for automated source switching btw, or would that be too complicated (with three different source types)?

Does this save settings per source? per input resolution? or do you have to change settings each time you change input source?

[BuckoA51]

Finally got my unit today but I'm encountering some significant problems with some systems, I'll have a chat with Markus before I write up any reviews/thoughts.

[Shuco13]

Hey just found a solution to integrate audio to HDMI from the OSSC (or any other source), for all of you guys owning a Framemeister:
First make sure your HDMI-source (from now on I will just say "OSSC") doesn't send any audio information:

1. Plug the OSSC's output into the HDMI1-port of your Framemeister.
2. Plug a 3.5mm audio connector-to-CHINCH-adapter into your OSSC and connect it to the Framemeister's rear (next to D-terminal) audio input.
3. In the Framemeister's settings, set HDMI1-passthrough to ON and HDMI1-AUDIO to D.
4. Select HDMI1 and switch on your OSSC.
5. You should now have sound integrated to your Framemeister's HDMI-OUT.

This workarround is tested and working. Keep in mind that your input mustn't have a digital audio signal over HDMI in order to make this work.

[Elrinth]

heh nice solution though an extra expensive solution.
then again, it's not yet in production, so things can still change.
question is if the framemeister will go outta sync when resolutions change in games on the OSSC.

[BazookaBen]

Hey just found a solution to integrate audio to HDMI from the OSSC (or any other source), for all of you guys owning a Framemeister:
First make sure your HDMI-source (from now on I will just say "OSSC") doesn't send any audio information:

1. Plug the OSSC's output into the HDMI1-port of your Framemeister.
2. Plug a 3.5mm audio connector-to-CHINCH-adapter into your OSSC and connect it to the Framemeister's rear (next to D-terminal) audio input.
3. In the Framemeister's settings, set HDMI1-passthrough to ON and HDMI1-AUDIO to D.
4. Select HDMI1 and switch on your OSSC.
5. You should now have sound integrated to your Framemeister's HDMI-OUT.

This workarround is tested and working. Keep in mind that your input mustn't have a digital audio signal over HDMI in order to make this work.

That's a lot of work to get crappy sound. Everyone on this forum should at least have a decent set of bookshelf speakers.

[BuckoA51]

question is if the framemeister will go outta sync when resolutions change in games on the OSSC.

Yes, almost certainly, everything else does that I've tested so far.

[marqs]

Yes that sums it up perfectly, if you're playing a fast action game on PS2 then the ossc single field deinterlacing is probably ideal. Switch to an RPG and it would be great to be able to pass the interlaced signal through to a slower but (perhaps) prettier deinterlacer (e.g. dvdo game mode 2). Is it a possibility?

It should be possible, but I have to find out a monitor accepting 480i over HDMI to try it out. For PS2, the best solution still would be forcing the game to run in progressive scan mode with GSM, right? I'm aware that it has compatibility issues with some games, though.

Are the pins for composite/S-video on the SCART connector wired to the FPGA and other necessary circuitry on the OSSC? Even if there's no immediate firmware update on the horizon, it would be nice to know if the hardware could support such an update in the future. Personally I am hoping for one because among my collection of RGB-modded systems, only my Atari VCS is the outlier with S-video output.

A separate composite decoder IC would be required.

How about 1440x960? I think that's what a Dreamcast needs in order to display at the proper aspect ratio without artifacts. Could we get a screenshot or video of a Dreamcast running the 240p test suite's "Linearity" test pattern and the 480p version of the checkerboard pattern? (Select Checkerboard, then press the A button to switch from 240p to 480p.) Thanks!

Possible, but it requires yet another PLL configuration so it's not just something that can be added in a minute.

edit: nvm, found it (apparently yes with resettable fuse).

Yeah, a 200mA fuse is now there.

edit2: though I suppose 5v would always be active while the device is on so maybe that won't work too well for me

yep

Any chance for automated source switching btw, or would that be too complicated (with three different source types)?

Auto-select between the 3 AV inputs could be done, but selecting the right mode automatically is not always possible (e.g. RGsB vs YPbPr).

Does this save settings per source? per input resolution? or do you have to change settings each time you change input source?

Currently the settings are global. Profiles might be the best solution - a dedicated setting for each input and supported resolution would result to hundreds of combinations.

[Shuco13]

@Elrinth
Expensive, yes, but nice to have if you already own a Framemeister and don't want to buy additional equipment.

question is if the framemeister will go outta sync when resolutions change in games on the OSSC.

No it won't since with HDMI-passthrough there is no processing going on. The framemeister only handles the analog-to-digital audio conversion. The video output won't be any different to what you get if you hook the OSSC directly to your TV.

@BazookaBen
I agree and I prefer external speakers as well. Funnily though some folks here prefer TV-internal speakers or want their signal processed over HDMI for some reason. That's why I decided to give them an easy solution without modding the OSSC itself.

[ZellSF]

It should be possible, but I have to find out a monitor accepting 480i over HDMI to try it out. For PS2, the best solution still would be forcing the game to run in progressive scan mode with GSM, right? I'm aware that it has compatibility issues with some games, though.

If you're looking for displays supporting 480i, I'd look at TVs before computer monitors.

Yes PS2 admittingly is the only 480i console worth bothering with and many games can be forced into 480p, but there's a lot of games that can't be forced into 480p.

[BuckoA51]

No it won't since with HDMI-passthrough there is no processing going on. The framemeister only handles the analog-to-digital audio conversion. The video output won't be any different to what you get if you hook the OSSC directly to your TV.

Doesn't matter, changing 240p->480i still needs a re-sync, just the OSSC does it quickly instead of taking an age like the Framemeister.

[Shuco13]

There won't be any resync, if at all, as long as the OSSC's output is not changed. What happens on the analog video side is not relevant.

[marqs]

There won't be any resync, if at all, as long as the OSSC's output is not changed. What happens on the analog video side is not relevant.

Keep in mind that there is usually a small refresh rate change when switching from 240p to 480i or vice versa. I just tested this setup with my Framemeister to clear this out: it took 1-2 seconds to resync so it's definitely faster than non-direct mode of Framemeister, but still not as immediate as OSSC connected directly to TV.

[BuckoA51]

That tallies with my findings too, the more you put between OSSC and display the more the delay goes up, disappointing for those hoping to split the output between display and capture card but I don't see a way around this.

[marqs]

That tallies with my findings too, the more you put between OSSC and display the more the delay goes up, disappointing for those hoping to split the output between display and capture card but I don't see a way around this.

I remember SC-512 DVI passthough not adding any delay, so that could be one solution. I'll check and verify that soon.

[GaminGuys]

Would this be the 'alternative upscaler' mentioned by My Life In Gaming at Magfest 2016?

I already have the XRGB Mini and several others but always great to know the progress of others.

It's my 1st night on here so not had chance to go through all the pages linked in to this topic.

Thanks.

[mongusa32]

Sorry if this might have been asked before but possible to support 4k displays without lag? Trying to hold out on 4k displays that have 16:10 ar so 2400p. I think that rez covers 240, 480, 720 and 1080p for line doubling. Acer XB271HK sure looks tempting though. 4ms of lag. Anyway is it possible?

[Xyga]

Acer XB271HK sure looks tempting though. 4ms of lag. Anyway is it possible?

4ms is average pixel response time, not the lag.
But yeah it's very possible, the XB271HK like other recent gaming monitors has close to absolutely no actual display lag (under 1ms).

[BuckoA51]

The only lag is what your monitor/display is doing, so yes any display is supported without lag.

the XB271HK like other recent gaming monitors has close to absolutely no actual display lag (under 1ms).

Really, according to whom? (not saying I don't believe you just curious who has tested this).