Best setup for unmodded N64

[.Maguss.]

Okay, so, I'm a big fan of the N64, and I want to know what are the best setups to get a great image quality out of it WITHOUT using RGB mod. I do have a S-Video cable and I tried the XRGB-mini, but it can't handle 240p to 480i transitions well (like opening the menu in Resident Evil 2 or the Bomber's Notebook in Majora's Mask). So right now, I do have a flat screen SONY WEGA CRT TV, but it does create overscan and geometry problems. After a lot of research, I found Sony PVM/BVMs are probably the best solution for that, but they are VERY HARD to find (specially in my country) and generally costs a ton. So, how can I get rid of those problems and still have a great image quality? What is the ultimate setup for the unmodded N64?

[siemien]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpy1M6v2_MI

Watch this to get a clear picture of everything N64. These guys know what they are talking about

[.Maguss.]

I already saw that video (I'm subscribed to the channel), but although it helped with the N64 itself, it doesn't with the screen. I mean, I know S-Video is the best option for unmodded N64, but the image may vary depending on the display/setup. I was thinking about using the XRGB-2 with a CRT monitor. The XRGB-2 doubles the resolution to 480p, but you can add scanlines to it to make it look just like a natural 240p. The problem is that I don't know how it handles 480i in that case, specially with in-game transitions between resolutions. The other option that comes to my mind is using an old fashion CRT (maybe a Sony Trinitron?) instead of a flat screen one, since I may get rid of the geometry problems, and with some luck adjust overscan manually. Is it possible to correct all geometry problems on a flat screen CRT? And am I missing a better setup?

[bacardi]

Okay, so, I'm a big fan of the N64, and I want to know what are the best setups to get a great image quality out of it WITHOUT using RGB mod. I do have a S-Video cable and I tried the XRGB-mini, but it can't handle 240p to 480i transitions well (like opening the menu in Resident Evil 2 or the Bomber's Notebook in Majora's Mask). So right now, I do have a flat screen SONY WEGA CRT TV, but it does create overscan and geometry problems. After a lot of research, I found Sony PVM/BVMs are probably the best solution for that, but they are VERY HARD to find (specially in my country) and generally costs a ton. So, how can I get rid of those problems and still have a great image quality? What is the ultimate setup for the unmodded N64?

PVMs don't have perfect geometry as well, never used a BVM, i think those have more granular geom controls - but are even harder to get. I would go with a round tube CRT, just make sure it has S-Video inputs.

[Ed Oscuro]

PVM 20L2 + S-Video out of a translucent red console looks great in 240p games (i.e., Last Legion UX), I couldn't be much happier than that.

[bobrocks95]

To address what (I think) Ed meant by mentioning the translucent red console, there's some evidence that the translucent colored consoles released later in its lifespan have a better DAC, which will make the video output look better.

It sounds though like you haven't done any service mode adjustments on your CRT. Look into that and you can correct the overscan and probably tweak the geometry enough for your liking. If not I'd look for one of the late model curved Sony sets, though I don't know any model numbers to point you towards there- geometry will be better on those generally speaking.

[.Maguss.]

Thank you very much for the replies. As far as I can tell right now, the best setup is probably that PVM-20L2 + Monster S-Video + N64 funstatic. I think I'm gonna put all my efforts in getting one of those PVMs, but until I got one, I'll try to fix the geometry and overscan problems on my Sony WEGA or buy a curved tube CRT.

[Ed Oscuro]

I wouldn't say that you need to find a particular PVM; I would probably get an even slightly better picture on my L5 (especially with high-rez 480i games). Any fairly recent PVM/BVM is going to be quite good, and I wouldn't sneeze at a good Wega either.

[Zen]

"Best setup for unmodded N64" . . . . Turned off

Sorry, couldn't resist

[.Maguss.]

I wouldn't say that you need to find a particular PVM; I would probably get an even slightly better picture on my L5 (especially with high-rez 480i games). Any fairly recent PVM/BVM is going to be quite good, and I wouldn't sneeze at a good Wega either.

My WEGA is actually very good in terms of image clarity, the problems are just the geometry and overscan.

[kamiboy]

I kind of feel sorry for the people that by some whimsy of lady luck have chosen the N64 as their favourite system.

[.Maguss.]

I kind of feel sorry for the people that by some whimsy of lady luck have chosen the N64 as their favourite system.

I could say I feel sorry for the people that think N64 isn't good enough as a system, but taste is very subjective. I do like a lot of NES, SNES, GB, PS1 and PS2 games, but N64 is still MY favorite.

[Guspaz]

I figure it must be nostalgia: the N64 didn't have all that many good games, and even those that are good look pretty terrible compared to the 16-bit generation (late 2D games versus early 3D games), so if the N64 is somebody's favourite system, that must have been the console that they grew up with.

I'm biased, though: I hate Mario 64 (always thought it was terrible), I never really liked 3D Zelda games compared to 2D ones, I'm not a fan of fighting games (so Smash isn't appealing), and while games such as Goldeneye and Mario Kart 64 were interesting, Goldeneye looked terrible and had super low framerates compared to what I was playing on PCs at the time, and Mario Kart 64 was very choppy compared to SMK.

[.Maguss.]

I figure it must be nostalgia: the N64 didn't have all that many good games, and even those that are good look pretty terrible compared to the 16-bit generation (late 2D games versus early 3D games), so if the N64 is somebody's favourite system, that must have been the console that they grew up with.

I'm biased, though: I hate Mario 64 (always thought it was terrible), I never really liked 3D Zelda games compared to 2D ones, I'm not a fan of fighting games (so Smash isn't appealing), and while games such as Goldeneye and Mario Kart 64 were interesting, Goldeneye looked terrible and had super low framerates compared to what I was playing on PCs at the time, and Mario Kart 64 was very choppy compared to SMK.

I actually grew up with the SNES. The main reason the N64 is my favorite is because it has the most memorable games I played in my life.

[Guspaz]

Well, I can say that my experience playing some of those game was quite memorable, but... not in a good way.

[bobrocks95]

Can't help but laugh at the direction this thread has gone in.

OP, don't tear yourself up about finding a PVM/BVM- you may find you don't like the look of the professional monitors' high TVL ratings, they're hard to find anyway, and CRTs just inherently don't have perfect geometry so you may end up staying disappointed. Fiddle with yours and see if you can't get it to a nice enough state.

[.Maguss.]

Can't help but laugh at the direction this thread has gone in.

OP, don't tear yourself up about finding a PVM/BVM- you may find you don't like the look of the professional monitors' high TVL ratings, they're hard to find anyway, and CRTs just inherently don't have perfect geometry so you may end up staying disappointed. Fiddle with yours and see if you can't get it to a nice enough state.

The problem is that flat screen CRTs like mine seems to have more problems with geometry than PVMs and curved tube CRTs. I don't know if I can get rid of the problem (or at least most of it) on my CRT.

[bobrocks95]

The problem is that flat screen CRTs like mine seems to have more problems with geometry than PVMs and curved tube CRTs. I don't know if I can get rid of the problem (or at least most of it) on my CRT.

True, but the geometry still isn't perfect on a curved PVM, and every other caveat I gave still applies too- they're hard to find, even harder to find for a fair price, and you might not like the look of professional sets in general. So like I said earlier a curved consumer set may be your preferred choice, but see how good you can get the geometry on yours first.

[Guspaz]

you might not like the look of professional sets in general

This is a point that bears repeating. Good PVMs are very sharp, very crisp, and look nothing at all like the CRT TVs you grew up playing. They're not for everyone.

[.Maguss.]

The problem is that flat screen CRTs like mine seems to have more problems with geometry than PVMs and curved tube CRTs. I don't know if I can get rid of the problem (or at least most of it) on my CRT.

True, but the geometry still isn't perfect on a curved PVM, and every other caveat I gave still applies too- they're hard to find, even harder to find for a fair price, and you might not like the look of professional sets in general. So like I said earlier a curved consumer set may be your preferred choice, but see how good you can get the geometry on yours first.

Good point. I'm gonna try that, but now I need to found someone who know how to work well with service mode on CRTs.

[AndehX]

opening the menu in Resident Evil 2

For this issue in particular, just remove the Expansion Pak from your N64 and it will work fine with the Framemeister.

[RGB32E]

Okay, so, I'm a big fan of the N64, and I want to know what are the best setups to get a great image quality out of it WITHOUT using RGB mod. I do have a S-Video cable and I tried the XRGB-mini, but it can't handle 240p to 480i transitions well (like opening the menu in Resident Evil 2 or the Bomber's Notebook in Majora's Mask). So right now, I do have a flat screen SONY WEGA CRT TV, but it does create overscan and geometry problems. After a lot of research, I found Sony PVM/BVMs are probably the best solution for that, but they are VERY HARD to find (specially in my country) and generally costs a ton. So, how can I get rid of those problems and still have a great image quality? What is the ultimate setup for the unmodded N64?

My ultimate setup for the unmodified N64 during that generation was a Sony KV-32XBR100 with the official Nintendo S-Video cable. The XBR100 has a 32" 800 TVL Super Trinitron tube, so it's quite possibly the sharpest and clearest SD tube Sony ever released in NA.

That said, the UltraHDMI modification is currently the "ultimate" way to play the N64 on flat panels. The 240p/480i transitions are instantaneous, and can be set for clear/sharp pixels or CRT emulation!

[yyr]

Just going to throw something in: Wii has many of the N64's best games in Virtual Console format, and while you won't be able to use the same controller, an unmodded Wii supports component out. Further, I've heard that the Wii renders N64 games in 480p, so you will get increased sharpness from the original, lower resolution. Some may love or hate this, but personally I love this setup. It's less expensive, it requires no modifications, and it looks even better than the original =)

[.Maguss.]

Okay, so, I'm a big fan of the N64, and I want to know what are the best setups to get a great image quality out of it WITHOUT using RGB mod. I do have a S-Video cable and I tried the XRGB-mini, but it can't handle 240p to 480i transitions well (like opening the menu in Resident Evil 2 or the Bomber's Notebook in Majora's Mask). So right now, I do have a flat screen SONY WEGA CRT TV, but it does create overscan and geometry problems. After a lot of research, I found Sony PVM/BVMs are probably the best solution for that, but they are VERY HARD to find (specially in my country) and generally costs a ton. So, how can I get rid of those problems and still have a great image quality? What is the ultimate setup for the unmodded N64?

My ultimate setup for the unmodified N64 during that generation was a Sony KV-32XBR100 with the official Nintendo S-Video cable. The XBR100 has a 32" 800 TVL Super Trinitron tube, so it's quite possibly the sharpest and clearest SD tube Sony ever released in NA.

That said, the UltraHDMI modification is currently the "ultimate" way to play the N64 on flat panels. The 240p/480i transitions are instantaneous, and can be set for clear/sharp pixels or CRT emulation!

32" is way too big for my liking.

Just going to throw something in: Wii has many of the N64's best games in Virtual Console format, and while you won't be able to use the same controller, an unmodded Wii supports component out. Further, I've heard that the Wii renders N64 games in 480p, so you will get increased sharpness from the original, lower resolution. Some may love or hate this, but personally I love this setup. It's less expensive, it requires no modifications, and it looks even better than the original =)

VC is missing a lot of the best N64 games, like Perfect Dark, GoldenEye, Banjo-Kazooie, Banjo-Tooie, Conker's Bad Fur Day and some many others. Also, I do prefer original hardware over emulation.

[bobrocks95]

Are TVL ratings readily available for consumer sets? The only distinction I've read of in consumer Sony tubes is the super fine pitch or hi-scan models.

[tacoguy64]

Are TVL ratings readily available for consumer sets? The only distinction I've read of in consumer Sony tubes is the super fine pitch or hi-scan models.

They should be. Though I am not too sure about that. Sony are known for the best consumer tubes here in the states which is why you will hear people talk about them a bunch. I am kind of curious as well to know if there are other US consumer TVs worth taking a look at.

[bobrocks95]

They should be. Though I am not too sure about that. Sony are known for the best consumer tubes here in the states which is why you will hear people talk about them a bunch. I am kind of curious as well to know if there are other US consumer TVs worth taking a look at.

I've heard from multiple sources the best flatscreen Trinitron was the KV-xxFV310, though I couldn't tell you a think about its rated TVL. I'm surprised there was an 800 TVL tube in a consumer set, it would look VERY different from your standard CRT and it's very odd they made it so high for a 480i-only set.

[FinalBaton]

I've heard from multiple sources the best flatscreen Trinitron was the KV-xxFV310, though I couldn't tell you a think about its rated TVL. I'm surprised there was an 800 TVL tube in a consumer set, it would look VERY different from your standard CRT and it's very odd they made it so high for a 480i-only set.

Yeah it's a very high TV lines count for a consumer 480i set. Looks like the 32XBR100 would be a great candidate for an RGB mod

[Xyga]

The N64's library is incredibly rich considering it was suposedly a failure.
Enough excellent and unique games to build a worthy collection and have lots of fun, plus it's still a rather badly emulated system.

[telemetry]

Just going to throw something in: Wii has many of the N64's best games in Virtual Console format, and while you won't be able to use the same controller, an unmodded Wii supports component out. Further, I've heard that the Wii renders N64 games in 480p, so you will get increased sharpness from the original, lower resolution. Some may love or hate this, but personally I love this setup. It's less expensive, it requires no modifications, and it looks even better than the original =)

VC is missing a lot of the best N64 games, like Perfect Dark, GoldenEye, Banjo-Kazooie, Banjo-Tooie, Conker's Bad Fur Day and some many others. Also, I do prefer original hardware over emulation.

This is quite true, but if you don't want to set up PC emulation on your own (N64's is rather finicky anyway), the Wii promises consistent, issue-free emulation with GameCube controllers (Wavebirds!), and it naturally renders internal resolution to 480p, which the UltraHDMI can't do (only upscaling).

It looks quite good through component, which is quite cheap (much cheaper than an HDMI mod), and if you're not looking for Rare games, it's a great way to play Mario, Zelda 64, Smash Bros, etc. with much-better-than-N64 video quality for a great price with little fuss.