OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

[RocketBelt]

Can the dvdo mix in the stereo analogue audio input with the dvi input, and output hdmi with the audio?
Or are you handling the audio completely separately?

[Fudoh]

Can the dvdo mix in the stereo analogue audio input with the dvi input, and output hdmi with the audio?
Or are you handling the audio completely separately?

works fine on my setup (VP50Pro to the W6 Sony), but I've heard other people complaining about audio muxing issues (but mostly on the VP30).

[marqs]

Are the inventory sections in that video representative of the OSSC's 480i deinterlacing quality?

You'll get some flicker depending on the source, but those jumps in the video are related to the capture card.

Just so i can get my "financial arragements" in order, when can we expect the first 50 complete units to start shipping, Marq?

When can we start paying you?

I'll inform people on the reservation list when I get a delivery estimate from PCB assembly company. No need to pay before I'm ready to ship the boards to buyers.

1) About digitizing a 480p signal into dvi/hdmi. Does it happen with absolutely zero lag?

There's a latency of around 30 pixels.

2) I second the one who said that line doubling a 480p signal would be a dream. Just in theory, could it happen someday via firmware update?

It's certainly possible.

I just tested 288p linetriple and it worked OK for both 864p and 720p (reduced active height) output.

[metad]

Hello there,

I just subscribed to this forum because I'm really interested into the OSSC but I'm really confused about the device and which signal it support or not.

I have a bunch of PAL console I brought when I moved to Canada, Megadrive model 1, modded region free, SNES, modded WII, N64… And I bought a Bravia W80C.
Will they work with the help of that marvelous device?

Thanks a lots for your patience

[ZellSF]

I've probably asked before, but I don't understand how it handles 480i. Can you say which of VLC's deinterlacing modes it's closest to?

https://wiki.videolan.org/Deinterlacing

Would also still really like a plain transcoding 480i>480i function.

[BuckoA51]

Can the dvdo mix in the stereo analogue audio input with the dvi input, and output hdmi with the audio?
Or are you handling the audio completely separately?

works fine on my setup (VP50Pro to the W6 Sony), but I've heard other people complaining about audio muxing issues (but mostly on the VP30).

Before I (foolishly) got rid of my VP50Pro I couldn't get it to inject audio into the HDMI at all. Though that was analogue RGB + analogue audio to HDMI.

I've probably asked before, but I don't understand how it handles 480i. Can you say which of VLC's deinterlacing modes it's closest to?

Bob.

Would also still really like a plain transcoding 480i>480i function.

I agree that would actually be really useful, you could then choose between fast and (potentially) ugly deinterlacing or the deinterlacing your TV/external processor could do.

[amaradona]

Hopefully I will be able to combine it with the hd3000!

[BuckoA51]

I don't see why not, though that will add considerably to the input lag.

[amaradona]

I don't see why not, though that will add considerably to the input lag.

It should be less than the mini I think.
I always like the results from coupling the xrgb 3 and the optoma hd3000 but I never been able to use it with neo geo or pc engine.
Results with the SFC were stunning though.
I hope it will be possible with Marq's device.

[BuckoA51]

It should be less than the mini I think.

I'm fairly sure the hd3000 clocks in at 2 frames of lag which is a little bit more than the Mini.

I always like the results from coupling the xrgb 3 and the optoma hd3000 but I never been able to use it with neo geo or pc engine.

Don't hold your breath for that to magically work, it's the same out of spec signal just transcoded to HDMI this time, though you never know with these things until you actually try it.

On a different note, I'd love to personally test this thing with an X68000, if anyone's in driving distance of Lincoln UK and has one, please let me know.

[amaradona]

You are right there is actually slim chances that it works but lets see.

I might bring back a x68000 end of march with me from Japan. So I will try it.

[Deubeul]

Great review Fudoh! And good job Marqs, this device is really exciting!

The only downside to me is the lack of composite or s-video input, which means no PC-FX or 3DO

What surprises me is that nobody has tested a PC Engine yet?

[Fudoh]

What surprises me is that nobody has tested a PC Engine yet?

I tested a number of PCEs with different RGB mods both on the prototype board last year and on the final unit now. I wasn't able to test my full line up on the new board, but in general I would say no major problems so far. PCE might require you to enable the sync LPF, but you should never run into problems other processors gave us using a PCE.

[BuckoA51]

The only downside to me is the lack of composite or s-video input, which means no PC-FX or 3DO

I'll be testing S-video with C64 and 3DO via this transcoder - http://www.lindy.co.uk/audio-video-c2/c ... rter-p2190

I'll let you know how it goes.

[Fudoh]

quite expensive. Sometimes you can find a cheap Sony YR-1000 or even a YR-3000 on ebay. Especially s-video to RGB or component is quite easy. Composite is a hard task though.

[BuckoA51]

Sometimes being the key word there, the Lindy transcoder is at least easily obtainable and while not a bargain I don't think it is too expensive.

[Fudoh]

right, of course. I wonder how expensive a simply s-video to component converter would be. This should be possible through a single IC solution.

[BuckoA51]

Hmm, sounds like a neat project for somewhere like Beharbros.com.

[Deubeul]

Thanks for the replies guys. Good to hear the PcE works fine!

I saw the Lindy transcoder but like Fudoh, I find it a little expensive.

But hey, maybe another solution will pop up by the time I have the OSCC in my hands!

[ShadowofBob]

I was reading through the Wiki this evening and noticed the bit about using TTL level c-sync needing a 470ohm resistor or similar if used through the SCART input. Is that still the case?

http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php/OSSC ... B-SCART.29

Just wondering as all my consoles I plan to use have csync SCART cables that seem to work fine on a GBS8200 and my projector via a SCART to VGA(sync on 13) cable. If it's better/safer I can just use the SCART to VGA cable on the VGA input, but would prefer to take advantage of the LPF.

*edit* Looked into this a bit more on my own and from what I've found the maker of my cables (retro_console_accessories) most likely already has these modifications done in the cables. I'll test them myself and ask her to be sure though.

[Xan]

I don't really get the current 240p ranking on Fudoh's page. As it stands the OSSC has 4:4:4 processing, no color noise bug, horizontal integer scaling, less lag, and costs about half of the Framemeister, to boot, yet is only placed second? And that just because of audio? Personally I see the missing HDMI audio only as a minor convenience issue because anyone who buys a video processor like this should be able to upgrade to at least a basic pair of external speakers anyway. Which can be done with the money saved from buying this over a Framemeister.

The only thing that the Framemeister has over the OSSC right now (in the 240p category) is composite/S-Video support in my book...

[Fudoh]

I don't really get the current 240p ranking on Fudoh's page. As it stands the OSSC has 4:4:4 processing, no color noise bug, horizontal integer scaling, less lag, and costs about half of the Framemeister, to boot, yet is only placed second? And that just because of audio?

no, missing audio processing alone wouldn't have cost it the first place. It's the fact that 720p output isn't usable for everybody and there's no 1080p output and no extensive aspect ratio/overscan controls. Believe it not, there are certainly more people out there using the Mini at 1080p without scanlines than at lower resolutions with scanlines. FBX's profiles are extremely popular as well.

If you compare the Mini at 1080p with the OSSC at 480p - both running without scanlines, then you get better results using the Framemeister.

[paulb_nl]

It'd be possible to configure the PLL so that line count would match the standards, e.g. you could set 750/262 as the PLL multiplication/division ratio instead of 3 I'm currently using with linetriple. With a few extra line buffers, everything would be good in vertical direction. However, (pixels_output_frame/pixels_input_frame) -ratios are way too high to be valid for the PLL (at least in Cyclone IV), so horizontal sampling rate of the input would need to be defined by the output mode. Still, that is something to try in the future. I also need to check how PLL rates can be configured dynamically and if there are some limitations, as it's not possible use fixed rates in that kind of setup.

I believe the locking and output clock generation in Framemeister is handled by the Marvell scaler ASIC, which apparently requires that the whole input frame is buffered.

I have been wrapping my head around this but my brain does not have enough CPU and RAM . Would something like this work to get a valid 720p signal?

Set the output rate to 750/262. We need to input only 750/3 = 250 lines so start output after waiting for (262 - 250) / 2 = 6 input blanking lines.
Because the output is slightly slower there will need to be 250 - (250 / 262 * 250) = ~12 lines buffered. When the output is finished the input is already past the 6 first blanking lines of the next frame so it is caught up.

[Yohanov]

Don't you guys have a PSP with component cables to test and add in the compatibility chart ?

PSP w/ component cables does already output 480p. What exactly do you want tested ?

Nothing but Dreamcast with VGA and Gamecube/Wii with component also already output 480P and are listed on the compatibility chart so I thought why not PSP ?

[Fudoh]

For PSP you want some kind of zoom function, otherwise the 272 active pixels on a 480p output will remain awfully small.

[Elrinth]

How would one tap the audio from the rgb most easily so you can like take it into your computer via line-in or something similar?
As the OSSC seems to not bundle the audio for reasons.

[Fudoh]

How would one tap the audio from the rgb most easily so you can like take it into your computer via line-in or something similar?

the OSSC accepts audio from a Scart source and forwards the signal to a 3.5mm audio connector. From there you can use a standard 3.5mm to 3.5mm (or RCA) audio cable to connect the OSSC to any line-in input.

[Elrinth]

ok, that's fully okay for me looking forwards to hear about the production etc.

[akumajo]

1080p is not a big deal to me (and I'm playing on a 120" screen projector).

I had fun testing most best upscalers (Crystalo CII, VP50, HD3000, even XRGB3 and XRGB-Mini are ok) but in the end I just prefer the transcoding way, simple and minimum lag.

Also, less time wasted on settings and more time for real gaming.

Another feature that I would like to see is a black frame insertion feature for 120Hz displays, but it would probably require a frame buffer ?!

Good review Fudoh (as always).
Good work Markus !

Thanks to both of you .

[paulb_nl]

Here is what I thought up for 960p in a 1080p frame with valid timings:

Set the output rate to 1125/262. First buffer a few lines and then start outputting the blanking lines. Draw the black lines for the border and buffer incoming lines. Then output the 960 video lines. Because the output is faster than the input the buffer is almost emptied. We need about 19 lines buffered. Then draw the rest of the black lines and blanking lines.

Here is a table with some example numbers:

Code: Select all

Buffer    Buffer  Input   Output     
amount    line    line    line
7          1       8        1       
                               41 Blanking
5         12      17       41      
                               60 Black
19        12      31      101     
                              960 Video
2        252     254     1061        
                               60 Black
6        262       6     1121        
                                4 Blanking
7        262       7     1125