OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

[NormalFish]

Bit late, but just read Fudoh's review and I'm quite impressed. Been following this thread but I suppose I didn't fully appreciate how feature-complete the device is. Might get me to sell off my framemeister if I can find a nice audio solution and the price justifies it.
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Oh, couple other comments. One thing I disagree with Fudoh on: I actually prefer the LCD to OSD. I realize that's probably not standard and I certainly wouldn't complain about OSD, but something about the LCD feels good to me.

Also, I'm stoked with the RGsB capability, as someone who's all about the PSX/2. DTL unit + This + audio solution sounds like the dream right now.

[ryu]

I can't wait to get this. And to have to yet again take out all the scalers and cables from my rack to arduously reconnect everything. The PS2 RGsB compatibility is great news. Always having to switch cables and the video output mode is the worst on that console.

Been waiting for this since I sold my XRGB-2 years ago.

[Thomago]

@marqs:

I've slept over this whole thing and now I've got some questions/annotations.

1. The screenshots and the video posted here are noticably lacking in contrast (what should be bright white is just grey). Right now, according to the OSSC wiki page, there seems no setting to adjust for this. Can/will this be added in the future?
2. marqs, you already mentioned the possibility to take a 288p signal, linetriple it to 864p and mark only 720 output lines as active, thereby getting rid of PAL bars. Is it already possible to map linedoubled 288p signals to 480p? Or to map deinterlaced 576i signala to 480p? I still got some games in my collection that need this sort of "special attention", so this is really important to me.
3. +1 for the 960p thing - being able to use 1280x960 as an output resolution was maybe the best thing about the Framemeister.
4. I already mentioned this in the Framemeister thread: Being able to output 1920x960 would be a dream. Again - is this something that could be done with the OSSC?
5. Regarding the "special attention" mentioned in point 2. - would it be possible to map 288p/576i signals to 960p?
6. One last thing: I lately found out that it's a really neat thing to take 288p/576i signals, blow them up to 1152p (2x576=1152) and then map that to 1080p. Again - is that something that the OSSC could do?

[Fudoh]

One thing I disagree with Fudoh on: I actually prefer the LCD to OSD

I'm do not completely disagree. Both are nice to have, but from experience I know that many people will prefer the OSD.

@Thomago, let me comment on one of the remarks (as far as I can):

(1) white level was pretty much spot on for the sources I tested - nothing muted or dimmed, so we shouldn't jump to conclusions without knowing more about the particular Saturn unit used for the video and the capture device used along with its color space conversion. Don't forget that we get RGB output from the OSSC and the capture device needs to convert this to YCbCr - there's a lot that can go wrong with that.

[Thomago]

white level was pretty much spot on for the sources I tested - nothing muted or dimmed, so we shouldn't jump to conclusions without knowing more about the particular Saturn unit used for the video and the capture device used along with its color space conversion. Don't forget that we get RGB output from the OSSC and the capture device needs to convert this to YCbCr - there's a lot that can go wrong with that.

Ah, good to know, thanks Fudoh! Yet, being able to tinker a little bit with the white level would me give a little peace of mind

[Elrinth]

Where do I buy one?!
nvm found it, link is in the bottom of this review:
http://retrogaming.hazard-city.de/ossc.html

[Xyga]

Don't OSDs usually mean stability and noise issues on those machines ?
If that's the case I'm fine with the little LCD thank you. ^^

[Xan]

Since it's not mentioned in the review I assume that the OSSC doesn't convert off-spec output rates like something from a modded PAL PSX, right? Not specifically related to the unit, but what's the best way to find out if a display handles those without stutter?

I'm aware of the console mods for this, but to me that's more of a last resort.

[Elrinth]

the reason I'm interested in this device is because I'm having issues where I'm streaming for example Castlevania: SOTN on Saturn. It has different resolutions in inventory than ingame. So when switching between inventory and back into the game, the framemeister needs to resync. So my viewers get a pretty long time where it's all black. cuz u go into inventory, equip a new item, then back into the game... the framemeister will not be ready with the image until you're back in the game again usually.

Does the OSSC have these problems? resync time that is.

[blizzz]

Please read a bit before you post. The answer to your question is literally in the first post of this thread and also in Fudoh's review.

The other is the long sync drop out when a game switches between 240p and 480i picture modes. While the Framemeister leaves you with a black screen for 7-10 seconds (depends on your display as well), the OSSC just shows a little shake or flash and continue unfased.

Another question related to modded PAL consoles. I remember that people reported black level issues (or something like that) with modded PAL consoles at 60 Hz on the Framemeister. Is this also an issue with the OSSC?

[Elrinth]

Thank you blizzz. I've signed up to buy one atleast. Will be quite interesting to see if the Avermedia Extremecap U3 capture card will accept it

[donluca]

the reason I'm interested in this device is because I'm having issues where I'm streaming for example Castlevania: SOTN on Saturn.

I've been looking for a long time for streamers which play the Saturn version of SOTN. Do you mind sharing a link to your stream?

[lettuce]

the reason I'm interested in this device is because I'm having issues where I'm streaming for example Castlevania: SOTN on Saturn.

I've been looking for a long time for streamers which play the Saturn version of SOTN. Do you mind sharing a link to your stream?

Why, the Saturn version is the worst?

[cleeg]

Very thorough and nicely written review - no surprise there! One thing I didn't notice (though I only read it once) is the u unit's handling of 240p to 480i in terms of switching lag between the two signals.

I simply just need one for my Saturn, and thanks to the zero input lag I plan to chain this into my XRGB Mini for aspect ratio corrections - I always find the Saturn's picture to be squeezed a bit too thin.

Looking forward to getting my preorder confirmation!

[Fudoh]

look four postings up (from yours).

I plan to chain this into my XRGB Mini for aspect ratio corrections

that most likely won't work as the OSSC breaks sync as well, so it will most certainly cause a full resync on the Mini.

[Chacranajxy]

The other is the long sync drop out when a game switches between 240p and 480i picture modes. While the Framemeister leaves you with a black screen for 7-10 seconds (depends on your display as well), the OSSC just shows a little shake or flash and continue unfased.

And with that, I'm sold. Don't even care what the price tag is.

This is actually pretty good timing, because my XRGB-3 died, and I don't particularly want to replace it or get a Framemeister, solely because of this issue. It sounds like this device is the solution I've been waiting for for a loooooong time.

Can't wait to get one.

[Triple Lei]

look four postings up (from yours).

I plan to chain this into my XRGB Mini for aspect ratio corrections

that most likely won't work as the OSSC breaks sync as well, so it will most certainly cause a full resync on the Mini.

Couldn't another Doctor HDMI help with that?

[Guspaz]

Why would it? The Dr. HDMI doesn't produce an output signal if it has no input. If the source drops, it drops the output too.

[cleeg]

look four postings up (from yours).

I plan to chain this into my XRGB Mini for aspect ratio corrections

that most likely won't work as the OSSC breaks sync as well, so it will most certainly cause a full resync on the Mini.

Ah well, I could live with that... Cheers!

[marqs]

I've slept over this whole thing and now I've got some questions/annotations.

1. The screenshots and the video posted here are noticably lacking in contrast (what should be bright white is just grey). Right now, according to the OSSC wiki page, there seems no setting to adjust for this. Can/will this be added in the future?

It's true that some earlier images and videos were lacking in contrast as the default power-on gain register values in the ADC chip weren't optimal. I fixed that few months ago by setting gain to a value which, by calculations, should result to 100% range utilized with a 0.7Vpp signal. I then used high-quality VGA source (PC) connected to a calibrated display to verify that black and white levels were spot-on.

2. marqs, you already mentioned the possibility to take a 288p signal, linetriple it to 864p and mark only 720 output lines as active, thereby getting rid of PAL bars. Is it already possible to map linedoubled 288p signals to 480p? Or to map deinterlaced 576i signala to 480p? I still got some games in my collection that need this sort of "special attention", so this is really important to me.

I've yet to try those, but from OSSC's perscective output 'active lines' is just a simple variable you could set to whichever value you want. It's more about what your display decides to do when it e.g. receives 50Hz "480p" signal with 625 total lines (instead of standard 525).

4. I already mentioned this in the Framemeister thread: Being able to output 1920x960 would be a dream. Again - is this something that could be done with the OSSC?

Horizontal sampling rate (and number of active columns) are similarly values which you can select quite freely. The former has some restrictions, though, since it directly controls the PLL which generates pixel clock. 1920x960 might be possible, but it'd require new PLL configurations. It'd be close to the limits of the FPGA since currently timing analyzer reports 135MHz as the maximum for pixel clock.

5. Regarding the "special attention" mentioned in point 2. - would it be possible to map 288p/576i signals to 960p?
6. One last thing: I lately found out that it's a really neat thing to take 288p/576i signals, blow them up to 1152p (2x576=1152) and then map that to 1080p. Again - is that something that the OSSC could do?

I'd better try these out before giving a clear yes/no answer. Line multiplication (even at 4x) should be doable and active area can be set quite freely as mentioned above, but I have try in practice if the current FPGA is fast enough.

Don't OSDs usually mean stability and noise issues on those machines ?
If that's the case I'm fine with the little LCD thank you. ^^

Not necessarily. It's more about not having enough memory and resources to implement that. Even if OSD was implemented (and who knows, maybe it could be pulled off some day), the character LCD is nice because if you're tweaking timing parameters and lose sync, you can still see what you're doing.

the reason I'm interested in this device is because I'm having issues where I'm streaming for example Castlevania: SOTN on Saturn. It has different resolutions in inventory than ingame. So when switching between inventory and back into the game, the framemeister needs to resync. So my viewers get a pretty long time where it's all black. cuz u go into inventory, equip a new item, then back into the game... the framemeister will not be ready with the image until you're back in the game again usually.

Does the OSSC have these problems? resync time that is.

OSSC resyncs fast, so it probably depends more on your capture card. This Chrono Cross 240p<->480i sample was recorded using SC-512N1-L which resyncs also quite fast. Perhaps not the best example, though, as the game is quite slow to load the inventory screen.

Another question related to modded PAL consoles. I remember that people reported black level issues (or something like that) with modded PAL consoles at 60 Hz on the Framemeister. Is this also an issue with the OSSC?

I was also quite annoyed with that when using Framemeister. No such issue here.

[RocketBelt]

Hi, I'm interested in this for linedoubling 288p content output as 576i.
How does this compare (flicker, sharpness) to a vp50 in game mode 1? Thanks

[Fudoh]

I assume you mean output as 576p.

For 288p intput, there's zero flicker and 100% perfect sharpness. The results looks like a genuine 576p image. Doesn't even compare to the VP50.

[Thomago]

I've yet to try those, but from OSSC's perscective output 'active lines' is just a simple variable you could set to whichever value you want. It's more about what your display decides to do when it e.g. receives 50Hz "480p" signal with 625 total lines (instead of standard 525).

Seems to work so far, if I can trust this test.




Thanks for your detailed answers!

[blizzz]

The message "Test successfully finished" doesn't mean that it actually works. For some reason the Nvidia control panel behaves weirdly with custom resolutions.

[RocketBelt]

I assume you mean output as 576p.

For 288p intput, there's zero flicker and 100% perfect sharpness. The results looks like a genuine 576p image. Doesn't even compare to the VP50.

Apologies, I mean a 288p game that is output by the console at 576i.
I understand this would be output by the ossc as 576p, but is the flicker comparable to dvdo game mode 1? Because I'm OK with that. But how is the sharpness?

[Fudoh]

flicker is still considerably less and sharpness much higher.

Can you give me an example of a 288p title running in 576i ?

[Thomago]

The message "Test successfully finished" doesn't mean that it actually works. For some reason the Nvidia control panel behaves weirdly with custom resolutions.

I'm actually going by the fact that my display displays stuff (and says it's 720x480@50Hz), but of course I can't know if there are actually 625 total lines

This Chrono Cross 240p<->480i sample was recorded using SC-512N1-L which resyncs also quite fast.

Are the inventory sections in that video representative of the OSSC's 480i deinterlacing quality?

[Fudoh]

no, no "jumps", no flicker. 480i looks really stable. As of now even more stable than on the XRGB-3.

[Thomago]

Ah, good to hear. That would have been a big turn off.

[Fudoh]

in the review I requested a user controlable line offset for 480i deinterlacing. This way the user could basically control the visible amount of flicker. Some titles (240p running as 480i) would require a slightly different setting than others (true 480i) to look as good as possible. The way it's set now, it's playing it safe.