Shooters vs Run n Guns

[BIL]

Aww sheeit this is kinda fun, but not as fun as Rondo's pirate ship riff on the classic "operation fleaman drop" scene with added heavy bruisers to smash down while being pestered. It even scrolls to the left this time! If you want to play XX's watered-down, war-goose-free, boring-right-scrolling equivalent, you guessed it...

Spoiler

BEND OVER FOR BAD END :3

Ah, damn it. Even XX Death has a price attached, namely st5's truly superb action/platforming coda. You want riveting duel with reaper? Can't play this!

Spoiler

Should've made him an unavoidable boss battle, LIKE HE IS IN FRIGGIN RONDO 3:

[uzernaem]

One thing for sure - XX looks better than Rondo and, amazingly, the SNES music arrangements sound better that PCE CD tracks.

Are Megaman-like games considered run n guns? If yes then there's one more boss game - Bucky O'Hare for NES. It is so fast and smooth for a 8-bit game and has awesome music as well.

[copy-paster]

Bucky O'Hare for NES. It is so fast and smooth for a 8-bit game and has awesome music as well.

If only you entered the "holy" password name, One Life Rulez!

[Ed Oscuro]

I don't even remember what my vote was for.

One thing for sure - XX looks better than Rondo and, amazingly, the SNES music arrangements sound better that PCE CD tracks.

I think it does quite well for a SNES game, but here's a few counter examples from the game:

Many areas look nice, but others are overly posterized, with large areas of solid color. (I've also said it before, but the game is also trading off big pretty tiles for smaller tiles which the artists arrange in-game - a more difficult way to work but I think it often has superior results to a corridor of large visual elements which are all the same - this is one of my pet peeves with modern games as well). This often works out worse than the more traditional pixel art in Rondo.
Richter's walk animation is far too busy now - pixel-per-pixel, I think his walk speed is almost identical, but whereas he slides across the floor a bit in the PCE original, in the SNES version he pumps his arms wildly. It's simply a problem with the timing of the base animation, but the SNES solution makes him look plodding, whereas you typically don't really notice the PCE version's animation.

It goes without saying that the SNES version doesn't have Cross a Fear. It might sound dated to some, but that fast synth arpeggio (or whatever its proper name is) is one of my favorite things from all Castlevania soundtracks. It's kind of like listening to late Moody Blues without embarrassment

For a direct comparison, the graveyard music sounds buzzing and obnoxious without the soft echoes the redbook audio makes possible. I'm a sucker for outdoors areas in Castlevania though, and why XX doesn't have an outdoors graveyard but replaces it with a mostly boring and ugly caves is beyond me. Let me also echo BIL's comments, and also note that the awesome ghost ship got the axe.

[Gamer707b]

This isn't the most popular remark here, but for me its The Run n Gun. I grew playing Contra at a friends house. Also I would mess around with Metal Slug at the arcades from time to time and 2 years ago I got Gunstar Heroes on ebay and now love it to bits. The shoot em up I hadn't touched till I got Einhander when it first came out , though sadly I just couldn't get into it and and didnt have the shooter bug then so I returned it a couple days later. I got Ikaruga when that came out and I can say that was the first shooter I sorta got into . So, although I ended up getting Radiant Silvergun and a few shooters after , for me the Run n Gun will always be better. BTW, my fav Run n Gun is a tie with Gunstar Heroes and Metal Slug 3.

[DenBruce]

Run and gun usually describes shoot 'em ups where the player character runs on foot, often incorporating jumping, as seen in platform games.

[MintyTheCat]

Metal SLug 4!!!

Are you trolling?

Metal Slug 4 was a massive let down after the sublime Metal Slug 3. It literally is a Korean no-budget mish mash of sprite hacks from previous games.

It was shit compared to the others.

MS3,X and 1 are the best in my book with MS3 being the crowning achievement. The Zombie level alone is one of the best levels I feel along with China Town in 2 and X.

[d0s]

Contra 3 is my favorite run and gun shooter of all time,

Hell yes, I'm glad I'm not the only one

[Gamer707b]

Metal SLug 4!!!

Are you trolling?

Metal Slug 4 was a massive let down after the sublime Metal Slug 3. It literally is a Korean no-budget mish mash of sprite hacks from previous games.

I adore Metal Slug 4 and Im not trolling . Im playing them all in order on the Anthology Ps2 disc and Its a great game. It does feel different but it doesn't make it bad . Quite the opposite.

[Gamer707b]

MS1 is my absolute favorite. Dieselpunk art style and jazz fusion music really make it stand out. The sequels may play well too but they look too silly and inconsistent imo. In terms of style, MS1 is like Garegga while the rest MS games are Batrider.

I agree. I used to love the crap out of Metal Slug (well 1, 2, X and 3 anyway, maaaybe 4). But nowadays I feel like the series is tired. I wish they had just made MS1 and MS2 (without the slowdown issues) and stopped. But of course money compelled them.

MS1 is still a top notch game to this day. Perfect pacing, nice difficulty, and beautiful. Occasionally I'll dig out 2, but X and above I never play anymore.

And to preemptively answer "why 2 not X?", 2 is the better game, it really is. Yes the slowdown is very annoying, but for X SNK felt like they had to make changes just to justify a new release. All of the changes were for the worse.

I see your point but whats not to like about more Metal Slug games. Ive been playing them all in order and now Im on MS 4. I think they all have a flavor of their own. Sure, they don't innovate much from one to the next (Except maybe part 3) but they all have their own charm. Some retro games hold up, some don't. The Metal Slug series holds up amazingly well. Id be stoked if their was a new one.

[stryc9]

I don't mind Metal Slug 4. In fact, despite the reused assets I think I like it better than 5.

4 seems to have more going on on-screen than the rest, except maybe for 6. (and possibly 7, but I've never played that one). I agree with the general sentiment that the best are 1, X and 3 though.

I appreciate 3 for the mutated fauna thing it has going on, my favourite being the snails. The look of disappointment on their faces as they dissolve under a barrage of laser gun fire is priceless!

PS I missed the vote, but Alien Soldier would probably get mine. There's nothing quite like it.

[trap15]

Supposedly MS4 has the most scoring depth of any of the games and thusly is the most played in JP these days. Personally, I think X is the pinnacle, I'm really not sure what people think was changed that makes it worse than 2.

[Jeneki]

I've been curious about Metal Slug 6 due to the enemy chaining meter, but haven't tried it in depth yet. Does the chaining add a lot of scoring tricks? Or is it not very meaningful over the couse of the game?

[NeoStrayCat]

Well, to me, the main MS games can adapt to their own depth and scoring mechanics as it can be. I'm just used to playing the first one more, lol. XD

I've been curious about Metal Slug 6 due to the enemy chaining meter, but haven't tried it in depth yet. Does the chaining add a lot of scoring tricks? Or is it not very meaningful over the couse of the game?

Well, yeah, it requires some work into it to chain it over to the MAX of 16x which takes consistent planning to score high. Also, subtle hint...Clark works wonders as his SAB grab move adds up in points from 1000 to 16000 max each enemy grabbed, this too can be insane over the score multiplier in your favor.

As an example, you can try reaching 2Mil. on MS6's first stage if you plan it the right way with other characters, you can reach a little more with that with Clark (up to 3mil), so yeah, lol. XD

[boagman]

I cannot, for the life of me, understand how anyone can like, much less *excuse*, the atrocity that is Metal Slug 4. It made X look positively inspired...which is an insult to inspiration everywhere.

I love, love, love Metal Slug...but that doesn't mean that mistakes, really *bad* mistakes, weren't made along the way.

[Squire Grooktook]

X never needed to be "inspired". It was a black label dedicated to re-balancing 2. You might as well accuse the latest bug fix update on your favorite pc game of being an "uninspired sequel".

[boagman]

X never needed to be "inspired". It was a black label dedicated to re-balancing 2. You might as well accuse the latest bug fix update on your favorite pc game of being an "uninspired sequel".

I'm so tired of this argument. We're going to have to agree to disagree without being disagreeable, here. X pissed me off *then*, and it pisses me off *now*.

If a person wanted to argue about the slowdown in 2 being bettered in X, then I have no issue with that argument. None at all. If that's the bone you want to grasp, then folks: that's yours and I don't have any issue with it.

All the ridiculously horrible changes, though? Without an actual new game to go with it? Inexcusable. It was pathetic then, and it's pathetic now. Ain't no rewriting that history. To call it a "goof" is to be far, far too kind. What it was, was what it is: lazy.

Now, if X was the price I had to pay for the exhilaration that is 3, then I'm fine with that. Rock on. But let's not pretend that X was any good. Was it a space-filler in the timeline? Okay. Even Pixar misses sometimes. They've earned a free pass or two (and they've used at least a couple of those). X, however, is best left forgotten.

However, compared to 4? Jeepers. X all the way WHEN COMPARED TO 4. But that's kind of like saying "A bullet to the brain all the way WHEN COMPARED TO DEATH BY SLOW BURNING." I mean, who *wouldn't* choose the former?

[Squire Grooktook]

I haven't played it as much as them, but according to Hagane and Iconoclast (the latter at least 1lc'd it) the changes all pretty much make it a better game. More weapon variety, new weapons let you kill certain stuff faster making the slower parts less boring, etc.

[d0s]

My favorite metal slug is the first one and I can't articulate why

[NeoStrayCat]

My favorite metal slug is the first one and I can't articulate why

Ditto, its just...perfect in some spots...

[boagman]

My favorite metal slug is the first one and I can't articulate why

Ditto, its just...perfect in some spots...

I have zero problems with either of these statements. The first is some serious stuff that really soared.

[Hagane]

Personally, I think X is the pinnacle, I'm really not sure what people think was changed that makes it worse than 2.

There's not a single change in X that makes it worse than 2, people saying otherwise either don't really know what they are talking about or are simply looking for attention. I have yet to see someone post an actual valid argument abut a gameplay change that is worse in X, just empty "X is so bad, because it's really bad and it sucks".

I've already posted in detail about a lot of the design changes that make X much better, yet nothing has been posted like this to defend the position that 2 is better. If you like playing with the handgun and machinegun for the whole game, enjoy stilted pacing, fewer enemies on-screen, less firepower, less enemy variety and plainer level design, then 2 is the better game for sure.

2 is an unplayable mess coded by monkeys and X is the best game in the whole saga, closely followed by the first game.

[Stevens]

the Anthology Ps2 disc and Its a great game. It does feel different but it doesn't make it bad . Quite the opposite.

I have that too. It is fun, but the input lag (specifically while crouching) is a game breaker to playing it for anything but fun. At least as far as I'm concerned.

[Gamer707b]

the Anthology Ps2 disc and Its a great game. It does feel different but it doesn't make it bad . Quite the opposite.

I have that too. It is fun, but the input lag (specifically while crouching) is a game breaker to playing it for anything but fun. At least as far as I'm concerned.

You mean the lag when your shooting from a crouching position? Or Trying to crouch from a standing position? I noticed there is always a slight lag when I crouch from a standing position, but I thought that was how the game was.

[copy-paster]

This may be weird, but my friend just installed MS Anthology on his PS2 Hdd-mod and it runs MS2 flawlessly.

[stryc9]

I dunno about the NTSCU versions, but the PAL MS Anthology is an abomination. Letterboxed and laggy IIRC, I didn't have it for more than 24 hours. I've heard the Japanese version was done by someone else, so maybe that version is OK?

The way to go is the stand alone Japanese PS2 releases (or the US double packs), they seem pretty much perfect except for the 480i display.

[davyK]

I dunno about the NTSCU versions, but the PAL MS Anthology is an abomination. Letterboxed and laggy IIRC, I didn't have it for more than 24 hours.

You took the words right of my mouth. I got rid as soon as possible. There was lag even jumping in the PAL version. Wasn't even a 60Hz option if memory serves which is inexcusable on the PS2.

I have the individual releases of MS3,4 & 5 on PS2 PAL and they seem to play very nicely (forgoing opinions on the games themselves). MS3 in particular is nice on PS2 as it has a couple of mini-games that are fun.

I had PS1 X but I sold that off during a clearout. It wasn't bad but has the curse of load times which is a pet hate of mine

I also have the Anthology on Wii which has major control issues because of the obsession with using waggle and despite it supporting several options it doesn't support just holding the remote NES style or the Wii's excellent classic controller. However the game is sort of "rescued" by GC pad compatibility. Now for some reason the GC dpad is unsupported but the analogue stick - surprisingly - works rather well because of the octagonal grooves the stick rests in. The GC dpad isn't the best anyhow but it's a further baffling exclusion. However I prefer to use a classic linker to use my PS2 arcade stick with it.

Re Contra - I loved and completed the NES game but never got on with the SNES version. I didn't really like the overhead sections though I can see that they were trying to continue with the series theme of having occasional levels with a a different point of perspective.

There's the excellent Contra Rebirth on WiiWare - fans should definitely take a look at that - it's loads of fun and feels like a 16bit game on steroids.

[Skykid]

My favorite metal slug is the first one and I can't articulate why

It's the best one.

[copy-paster]

I dunno about the NTSCU versions, but the PAL MS Anthology is an abomination. Letterboxed and laggy IIRC, I didn't have it for more than 24 hours. I've heard the Japanese version was done by someone else, so maybe that version is OK?

From what I know, most versions of Anthology runs MS2 like the arcade/Neo-Geo one, with slowdown and such.

I didn't really like the overhead sections

This, that section is the reason I don't want trying to clear the game.

My favorite metal slug is the first one and I can't articulate why

Even X and 4 is my favorite, the first one still deserve a medal, that also the only MS game I 1cc'd.

[Hagane]

The thing that prevents 1 from being my favorite is that difficulty is very low till the last stage, and even then last stage is not too difficult as long as you keep the correct weapons at the right times. Now, this tends to happen a lot in the series, but in 1 this problem is much more evident, and you are able to trivialize several bosses with grenades and / or pointblanking. My first clear was a 1LC.

With a few touches here and there it could be the best, but to me it falls a bit short of X, which is more balanced. Visually it's the best by a long margin, there's no arguing that.