Vert/Manic Shmups-- replaced Memo/Hori?

[Zweihander]

Let's face it. When was the last side-scrolling shmup? Gradius V and R-Type Final come to mind... and Border Down was the last for DC. No hostility towards manic/vertical shmups-- I love them, but as a fact, it seems they've completely replaced side-scrollers in the genre of shmupping. Will we see a Gradius 6? Another Darius or Border Down? Or is the hori market itself dead? Are memorizers out, and insane scoring systems in? Haven't really noticed the complete lack of modern hori's until I thought about it recently.

Discuss.

[Rob]

Will we see a Gradius 6?

Yes, I'm pretty sure this has been announced.

Are memorizers out, and insane scoring systems in?

NEWSFLASH 1999! jk

[CIT]

Well, Border Down and Darius aren't exactly memorizers, you know.

Apart from that I agree with you though.

[cigsthecat]

Or is the hori market itself dead?

Hopefully.

[system11]

Or is the hori market itself dead?

Hopefully.

My initial reaction was unprintable. I'll replace with a "you suck!" instead. We need variety - only verticals does not bring that.

Some of us prefer a good horizontal shooter to a vertical. The modern verts can be more fascist in memorisation than R-Type was about positioning in a level. Think Gunbird 2, or trying to chain DOJ.

[Marc]

Or is the hori market itself dead?

Hopefully.

My initial reaction was unprintable. I'll replace with a "you suck!" instead. We need variety - only verticals does not bring that.

Some of us prefer a good horizontal shooter to a vertical. The modern verts can be more fascist in memorisation than R-Type was about positioning in a level. Think Gunbird 2, or trying to chain DOJ.

Or having to learn WHEN and WHERE to use the reflect barrier in GIga Wings. Or when you're going to get enemies from behind in Raiden etc...

[FRO]

Well, Border Down and Darius aren't exactly memorizers, you know.

Apart from that I agree with you though.

I can't vouch for Border Down because I haven't played it, but the Darius series are most certainly memorizers. I own Darius Twin, Darius Gaiden, & G Darius - they're all memorizers. There are specific enemy patterns that come at specific times & with specific weapons. It's just as much a memorizer as R-Type.

[ccovell]

Yeah, I miss the horis. Verticals are great, but are usually the blast-a-thon type of game.

I miss games like Gate of Thunder and Over Horizon. They're really not done anymore.

[Sly Cherry Chunks]

Things just look more interesting from the side.

But yeah, more horis plz.

[captain ahar]

hopefully neither will ever die. as they both have very unique things to offer.

... and shame on cigs, i expected better.

[LSU]

Surely any new good shmup release is welcome, regardless of its viewpoint. It's the quality of the game that counts for me, not the perspective.

And I'd love to see a next-gen Darius or Thunderforce sometime soon.

[Ceph]

My yearning (or rather craving) for another Thunderforce-style horizontal shooter forced me to shell out quite a bit for Hyper Duel last week.

They sure don't make em like this anymore. Which is a shame.

[Acid King]

There are specific enemy patterns that come at specific times & with specific weapons. It's just as much a memorizer as R-Type.

You just described every shooter. What sets Darius apart from R Type, is the shifting movements of the backgrounds in R Type. Darius doesn't have particular areas where you can't pass through on the first try, absent not knowing an enemies spray. There's no Darius equivalent to say R Type 2's ship level, R Type Delta's giant four legged walker stage or R Type Finals stage with the big robot (3 or 4 maybe).

[CMoon]

I'm not a huge horizontal fan, but bring on more Border Down and G-Darius, two of my favorite shmups and exactly (IMO anyway) what a good horizontal shmup should be.

Of course, I've really never cared for Gradius or R-Type (though I do enjoy them occasionally), and can sympathize with Cigs to some extent. I'm tired of dying from hitting walls while trying to pick up power-ups buried in the walls!

[Daigoro]

i love Horizontal shmups. ive allways been a fan of them.

i would love to see more. hopefully someone will take up the cause. cmon Cave do another Hori!

that said, i do need to track down a copy of Border Down. (anyone want to trade for Gigawing 2? :p)

[Daigoro]

arg double post.

[TVG]

horis were always rarer than verts. if you exclude the MD that is :p

since not much shmups are being made, they're even rarer now. it's normal.

[roker]

I hope R-Type Final really isn't the final game of the series

[Blade]

I've always been of the opinion that a shmup should never be situated one way. The way I see it, a shmup should have the length of a Hori and the Height of a Vert.

The screen scrolling/ship movement would be dependant on the level your playing. If you're trying to chase after a moving target down a long corridor it would be a Hori, but if it went upwards into a Shaft, you'd play it Vert, and if it went down another side of the shaft you'd play an Upside-Down Vert. Or even a Reverse Hori for that matter.

Now that's my kind of gameplay the kind where you just don't know what'll happen next and just have to react to it.

[sffan]

I've always been of the opinion that a shmup should never be situated one way. The way I see it, a shmup should have the length of a Hori and the Height of a Vert.

The screen scrolling/ship movement would be dependant on the level your playing. If you're trying to chase after a moving target down a long corridor it would be a Hori, but if it went upwards into a Shaft, you'd play it Vert, and if it went down another side of the shaft you'd play an Upside-Down Vert. Or even a Reverse Hori for that matter.

Now that's my kind of gameplay the kind where you just don't know what'll happen next and just have to react to it.

You don't even need shafts or corridors. A shmup can be entirely open so you can choose any direction at any time, like Sinistar.

I do think verts have more appeal because they're more symmetric in a way. You're always moving forward, shown on the screen as the "up" direction, looking down on your ship.

Horizontals, however, are asymmetric. There is no logical reason why you always have to be travelling to the right, with a background scrolling left. It seems more off-balance to me. Why aren't there equal numbers of left travelling (right-scrolling) shmups? It's just a random convention. There's nothing natural about it.

[Dandy J]

Most platformers scroll left to right, you read left to right.

[Edge]

Most platformers scroll left to right, you read left to right.

That's in English and most (all?) European languages. :p

But I agree that games scrolling from left to right, are feeling "right" to me. While vice versa is somehow strange, it is like a vertical shmup scrolling down.


Yeah, I really miss the horizontal shmups today.
Don't get me wrong I do like manic shmups. But I'd also like to play something else. Not always wanna have an eltism scoresystem where everything is multiplied. Sometimes I find games such as Gradius pretty relaxing. And challenging in it's own way with the simple idea of just trying to survive.

[sffan]

Most platformers scroll left to right, you read left to right.

That's in English and most (all?) European languages. :p

But I agree that games scrolling from left to right, are feeling "right" to me. While vice versa is somehow strange, it is like a vertical shmup scrolling down.

A hori going left would not be like a vert going down.

A vert going down would simulate going backwards.

A hori going left (scrolling right) would still be just going sideways so there's nothing fundamentally different.

The convention with hori shmups and platformers just "feels right" because it's what we're used to, unless it's also a right brain/left brain thing. Maybe a left-handed person would be more comfy with a shmup going left, I dunno. Remember Defender? No right/left bias in that game.

My only point was about verts having a more pleasing symmetry, that's all.

[Dandy J]

A hori going left would not be like a vert going down.

A vert going down would simulate going backwards.

But what if you were viewing the underside of the craft, so it scrolls downward, but is going forward? Like watching it from below instead of from above. Just like a hori going left would be the same, just looking at the ship's left side rather than it's right.

Anyway would either of those things actually add anything to the gameplay? Other than disorienting the player?

[ptoing]

as much as i love verts i would die for a new parodius, preferably done by treasure and in ace 3d.

[sffan]

A hori going left would not be like a vert going down.

A vert going down would simulate going backwards.

But what if you were viewing the underside of the craft, so it scrolls downward, but is going forward? Like watching it from below instead of from above. Just like a hori going left would be the same, just looking at the ship's left side rather than it's right.

That would be really cool, except you'll always have sky in the background unless it's a space game. I don't think any game has done that yet except the Tempest, Gyruss type of games when you're at the top of the screen. A scroller from that perspective would be interesting.

[BulletMagnet]

as much as i love verts i would die for a new parodius, preferably done by treasure and in ace 3d.

Parodius getting the "Gradius V" treatment might indeed be interesting to behold...I'm not sure the quirky presentation would be quite the same in 3D though. Either way, it's never gonna happen, heh heh.

[J-Manic]

A new Darius is long overdue. The same goes for Thunder Force. Hell, even a Border Down 2 or an Einhander 2 would be cool with me. I just wish a new hori would come out soon. The genre needs it!

[benj]

That would be really cool, except you'll always have sky in the background unless it's a space game. I don't think any game has done that yet except the Tempest, Gyruss type of games when you're at the top of the screen. A scroller from that perspective would be interesting.

There actually was a shooter where your craft moved downwards. The Name escapes me right now, but I´m sure it was on the NES/FC. The Levels were alternating between hori/vert (think Salamander), and it was quite gory. I think I´ve never beaten the 2nd Stage, cause the downward movement was just too disorientating for me.

[Rob]

Shadow Dancer (Genesis/MD) has free-falling vertical shooting (shuriken) bonus stages. It was weird but not too weird.