Flat Screen CRT's for retro gaming , any good ?

[s8n]

hi members , i am in the hunt for a CRT as my older one has a problem that needs to be fixed and the one im using atm is horrible. So yeah i was wondering what do you guys think of Flat Screen CRT's ? , i have found one but its prolly too small depends what the seller messages back with.


or should i be searching and focusing on the rounded CRT's ?


chat soon

[Taiyaki]

I've used flat ever since the early 2000's when my parents bought a big flat Trinitron and then I received a Panasonic Tau flat as well. Now a days I still game on flat ones (although back to Trinitrons), I just can't go back to rounded.

Some here will claim that it's harder to get near perfect corner geometry on flatter sets, and this may be true. My advice if you want a flat set would be stick to the higher end models such as the XBR or FV300/310 series. Those are usually the most sought after I believe.

[bobrocks95]

I think a big difference is that flat CRTs came out very late in the CRT game, and I think all were manufactured in the 2000's. While geometry can't get as perfect, supposedly they are sharper (or at least Sony advertised them as such) and most likely have fewer hours and better electronics, though of course the highest-end curved consumer tube probably beats the lowest-end flat tube regardless of your personal preference.

Geometry on CRTs is nowhere near perfect anyway unless you go with a BVM, so personally I have a high-end flat tube (the Sony FV310)

[FinalBaton]

I haven't noticed bad corner geometry defaults on the flat Trinitrons I've tried either. And even if you happen to find one that does, it's probably adjustable through the service menu.

The only thing I saw popping up on a few flat large Trinitrons is Horizontal Linearity problems (though I can't say if it's actually worse on those than on other large CRTs. Might not even be). This cannot be fixed through the service menu.

So my advice is : if you find a flat Trinitron that doesn't have a big horizontal linearity problem, jump on it. They are definitly worth it.

[bobrocks95]

I have bad corner convergence on my 32" set, but I think most of it can be corrected with some convergence strips you sticker on the tube. The only truly notable geometry problems I have are the rolling pin thing where it's like lines wrap over the top of a tube laying on the screen and vertical bowing on the lower edge of the screen. I've come to terms with both really, overscan hides the bowing and the distortion isn't any more pronounced in the corner than the curvature of a tube would be.

[Taiyaki]

Isn't the rolling pin thing a component failure? I had that on my flat screen Panasonic Tau, it was noticeable on the top on life bars where a certain small area of the lifebar would go like a ___/\___ (this is not a perfect representation by any means but just to give an idea). I thought it was a capacitor problem due to my using the tv so many hours for so many years (I think I gamed on average 5~7 hours a day for over 5 years on it).

Anyway what I think most people mean by corner geometry is more on the horizontal lines like a line bowing upwards on downwards in a corner or two, unfortunately onboard settings never affect this, you can rotate the entire picture to find the right spot but on some (generally lower end) flat crt there's always the possibility of one corner being uncorrectable. You can probably improve it with a magnet or two and still have decent convergence but it's tough from my experience. This is why I recommend at least sticking to the HS or FV series since they tend to have these issues less than the FS line.

Generally though I agree, unfortunately perfect geometry is impossible on crt's, even BVM's frankly. In some respects BVM's imperfections stand out more than consumer sets because you'll have a spot on picture across most of the tube and then have one weird anomaly in 2d games either on one side or the top or bottom generally noticeable in scrolling games. So that when the picture bends or warps at that one area of the tube it stands out much more than on a consumer set where you expect to see some light bending or warping somewhat evenly across the tube and so one's eyes and brain adjust much better, again in my experience.

BVM's can get near perfect convergence however, where as with a consumer set you either need an XBR with onboard adjustments or some brave hands (or a technician) to go tweak the back of the tube with permalloy strips.

[bobrocks95]

Isn't the rolling pin thing a component failure? I had that on my flat screen Panasonic Tau, it was noticeable on the top on life bars where a certain small area of the lifebar would go like a ___/\___ (this is not a perfect representation by any means but just to give an idea). I thought it was a capacitor problem due to my using the tv so many hours for so many years (I think I gamed on average 5~7 hours a day for over 5 years on it).

I distinctly remember someone mentioning their PVM had it in an old thread, but I don't remember if the conclusion was that it needed a recap. I did beat the ever loving crap out of the TV as well getting it home, neither my brother nor I knew how to dolly it correctly and beat up the front plastic very badly, maybe it didn't have the problem before.

[austin532]

Maybe it's me being stuck in my old ways but I feel retro games look better on a curved CRT. Seeing as how they were designed on curved PVMs I think it shows when playing on flat CRT's. The center of the screen is meant to pop out a little so some games will even cause a rolling or stretching effect.

[panzeroceania]

Has anyone had issues with corner sharpness / focus? With a curved screen in theory most parts of the screen are equidistant from the electron gun, but that's not the case with a flat screen.

[Josh128]

My 2006 27" Trinitron Wega loses a bit of sharpness in the corners, but nothing too bad. Uniformity is decent compared to many other flat-tubes, but not perfect, has a slight horizontal wobble.

Games look fantastic on it whether in composite, SVideo or RGB. I have many pictures in the thread I started about it several months ago on here.

[Taiyaki]

That's an interesting point. If you like the rolling effect of pre 2000 crt's then rounded is preferable. I actually prefer flat where all parts are of equal distance to the viewer's eyes.

In my experience corner sharpness is generally a problem on all crt's but maybe the flaws are less apparent on rounded sets due to the curvature. On most sets you can tweak the focus knob(s) inside the tube and then decrease sharpness somewhat until it seems evened out with a sharp enough picture.

I think colors and contrast are also a bit better on the flat tubes but I could be wrong. Also flat tubes will often have component inputs, which tend to be quite rare on curved sets I believe.

[tjsynkral]

I love my flat Trinitrons. The only drawbacks I've seen are, the picture seems uneven when scrolling (because the beams are still emitted in in a curved shape even though they're projected onto a flat aperture grille), and edge/corner convergence is nearly impossible to get perfect (I've gotten my sets pretty close with magnets and lots of yoke fiddling). If everything else were equal I would suggest someone to get a curved set, but the flats have really good sharpness, nice features, and component and S-video on board.

[mvsfan]

The flat screen trinitrons are nice. I prefer it over a curved trinitron. especially for vertical games.

[Galgomite]

(Edited after rereading the question.)
Personally I'd stick with curved. I'd like to recommend a Sony Wega (non-HD) flat TV, but I find the imperfections in various sets I've come across (soft corners, bad geometry, crooked picture) make them worse than a curved screen. Ideally they're perfect, and they really wowed me back in the day, but since becoming accustomed to LCD and plasma, they distract me more than anything. If you're sticking with CRT I say go whole hog and stick with curved.

[tjsynkral]

(Edited after rereading the question.)
Personally I'd stick with curved. I'd like to recommend a Sony Wega (non-HD) flat TV, but I find the imperfections in various sets I've come across (soft corners, bad geometry, crooked picture) make them worse than a curved screen. Ideally they're perfect, and they really wowed me back in the day, but since becoming accustomed to LCD and plasma, they distract me more than anything. If you're sticking with CRT I say go whole hog and stick with curved.

The secret to the Wegas is to dial them in.
https://youtu.be/3SsLwcSKIOY

[bobrocks95]

The secret to the Wegas is to dial them in.
https://youtu.be/3SsLwcSKIOY

This video shows what you can do, but is also a really scary PSA about not randomly messing with your yoke, because we get to watch you completely eff up the set first before you get it to where you want it. For example, isn't that a purity adjustment gone wrong on the all red screen that gets banding colors? You fix it all, but it very easily looks like things can be made much, much worse than they already are.

[tjsynkral]

This video shows what you can do, but is also a really scary PSA about not randomly messing with your yoke, because we get to watch you completely eff up the set first before you get it to where you want it. For example, isn't that a purity adjustment gone wrong on the all red screen that gets banding colors? You fix it all, but it very easily looks like things can be made much, much worse than they already are.

Adjusting the yokes isn't dangerous if you don't do something stupid like mess around with the anode cap or high voltage area.

I explained as I went (maybe someday I'll edit it together) but the minor adjustments won't get you 100% or even 90% results every time, you often have to go all the way back to purity and focus adjustment and work your way back down to the little stuff later. Knowing how to do every step (it's all in the manual) makes you fairly effup-proof.

[Taiyaki]

No actually it may sound nuts but what tjsynkral's video shows is exactly what needs to be done, I learned this over the last couple years.

I think you can avoid turning the yoke if your set has a rotation or tilt setting but you most likely need to touch the yoke to either pull it away at the top or bottom to improve the convergence balance. Nudging the yoke might be okay but if you turn it you probably need those disc magnets for purity (never used those but they appear on most sets from the factory and appear to work like permalloy strips, you tape them on the tube).

You also need to play with the focus and convergence knobs, and then you need to finish up with magnetic strips for both corner geometry and convergence (sometimes you need to put two or even three in a single corner but too many sometimes makes things worse, so finding the exact perfect spot is required).


What that video shows is what it takes to get a ~95% perfect picture, which is generally as good as it gets with crt's.

By the way what does the EHT setting do? I saw the guy in that video touched that setting (EDIT: oh, that's really tjsynkral it seems )? Why did you make the video in fast motion? This could have served as a phenomenal tutorial at regular speed and with audio.

[tjsynkral]

It's labeled in the service manual as "Vertical High-Voltage Compensation" but you kind of just have to play with it to see how it impacts the geometry.

[panzeroceania]

I love my flat Trinitrons. The only drawbacks I've seen are, the picture seems uneven when scrolling (because the beams are still emitted in in a curved shape even though they're projected onto a flat aperture grille)

ah yes, this is what I remember being told, maybe if the gun was redesigned flat would have a leg up there, but as it stands it comes down to preference. I don't like the really ancient aggressive curve, but a slight curve seems to fit the current gun design best.

[Taiyaki]

It's labeled in the service manual as "Vertical High-Voltage Compensation" but you kind of just have to play with it to see how it impacts the geometry.

What manual are you referring to? Were you already knowledgeable before hand or did you learn how to do all you did in the video with the manual? You seem to be as handy as a professional.

I love my flat Trinitrons. The only drawbacks I've seen are, the picture seems uneven when scrolling (because the beams are still emitted in in a curved shape even though they're projected onto a flat aperture grille)

ah yes, this is what I remember being told, maybe if the gun was redesigned flat would have a leg up there, but as it stands it comes down to preference. I don't like the really ancient aggressive curve, but a slight curve seems to fit the current gun design best.

Slight curve also has that effect though, at least with the ones I've seen.

[d0s]

I recently replaced the 27" Sony flat Trinitron Wega KV-27FV16 I had since 1998 with a pristine curved tube 27" Toshiba 27A33 I got for free from Craigslist and I couldn't be happier. It has component inputs just like the Sony and I run everything with RGB SCART through a RGB->component converter. I personally think old games look way better with a good curved tube but it's all personal preference.