Should I Upgrade From SCART To Coaxial Cables?

[Ronin]

I am new to RGB and have been using RetroRGB.com as a guide. Under the pages detailing the proper cables for SNES and Genesis there are links to coaxial cable upgrades. What is the advantage to upgrading from SCART to coax? Would anyone recommend it? I'm going to be connecting my systems to a Sony BVM if that makes any difference.

[BuckoA51]

You're not upgrading from SCART to coax, you're upgrading the shielding. I think it's explained pretty well isn't it? They just have better shielding. Do you need that? Well, depends on your setup I guess.

[ApolloBoy]

EDIT: Forget it, I'm dumb.

[BuckoA51]

No, I don't think he does.

[Ronin]

I guess I misunderstood. It said "upgrade to coax cable", so I assumed it was an upgrade from something (scart) to something else. And then the picture on ebay threw me off a little. But looking over it again, you're right. It is just more shielding. My mistake.

[Voultar]

I guess I misunderstood. It said "upgrade to coax cable", so I assumed it was an upgrade from something (scart) to something else. And then the picture on ebay threw me off a little. But looking over it again, you're right. It is just more shielding. My mistake.

Personally. I find those SCART RGB cables using multi-coax conductors to be a complete waste of money. A multi-core cable equipped with a ground-to-ground drain wire and competent shield is more than sufficient in mitigating cross-talk and capacitively coupled noise.

It's just another reason for someone to charge $40 more for an RGB cable. Somewhat akin to monster cables, from back in the day.

Then again, I roll all of my own cables.

[Ed Oscuro]

Well, I don't think we've answered the question yet, so here's my stab at it:

Coax is just the wire between the connectors in the finished cable. (When I use the word "cable" I mean the finished product with its connectors ready to be plugged in.)

SCART is referring to the physical connector (and the wiring arrangement, aka pinout, within it), not the wire.

Some people don't use SCART. This is actually an interesting point for you because I imagine your BVM monitor has BNC connectors for RGB, and doesn't use SCART. Unless you use a SCART switch, SCART is doing nothing for you, except be a commonly used semi-standard for people making finished cables (which is why all my RGB cables have SCART type plugs, most wired according to the SCART standard). Note that you need to pay attention to the pinout: Use either the SCART (sometimes called Euro SCART) pinout all the way through, or the Japanese pinout - JP-21 (also sometimes called RGB-21 I think) all the way through your system, and be aware of what devices you have that can accept each. Micomsoft upscalers with SCART plugs or adapters don't work safely with the SCART pinout, even though they use the same physical connector type. This is, again, why you should label these cables.

For your BVM, you probably will have a setup like this: System cables that end in a SCART plug, possibly a SCART switch in the middle, and then a SCART breakout cable which terminates in BNC plugs, which you will then plug straight into the BVM. For this setup, it doesn't matter what the intermediate pinout is so long as all the cables / switch agree, though you should still know and label properly (for example, you don't want to plug a Euro SCART cable into a Micomsoft upscaler that requires the Japanese pinout). There are choices for other types of video switches / distribution boxes, but with how widespread SCART is, I'm not sure they are very practical to use.

[leonk]

I think the only time you'll notice any sort of improvement from using coax cables in your installation is if you either have very noisy environment (lots of power cables running parallel to the video cable) or need longer runs. The push for coax makes more sense in higher frequencies; when you feed 1080i via component video. For 240p and 4' wires, I think it's a waste of $$$.

With my first HDTV setup (before hdmi became a standard) my feed into the TV was all component. I used an expensive Beldin coax wire that with the sheathing was thicker than a garden hose!! Truth be told, I personally didn't notice any difference between that cable and a cheap one when I was playing my Xbox 360 via 720p.

[mvsfan]

You do notice a difference in network cables however. more sheilding, more twist = higher speeds.

with that said, has anyone ever tried using STP for video cables?

the twist should eliminate any interference. and not cost a fortune like coax.

as for scart cables, I find that theres really no visible difference between the thinner properly sheilded scart cables and the heavy coax ones for shorter runs.

[FinalBaton]

Well, I don't think we've answered the question yet, so here's my stab at it:

Coax is just the wire between the connectors in the finished cable. (When I use the word "cable" I mean the finished product with its connectors ready to be plugged in.)

SCART is referring to the physical connector (and the wiring arrangement, aka pinout, within it), not the wire.

Some people don't use SCART. This is actually an interesting point for you because I imagine your BVM monitor has BNC connectors for RGB, and doesn't use SCART. Unless you use a SCART switch, SCART is doing nothing for you, except be a commonly used semi-standard for people making finished cables (which is why all my RGB cables have SCART type plugs, most wired according to the SCART standard). Note that you need to pay attention to the pinout: Use either the SCART (sometimes called Euro SCART) pinout all the way through, or the Japanese pinout - JP-21 (also sometimes called RGB-21 I think) all the way through your system, and be aware of what devices you have that can accept each. Micomsoft upscalers with SCART plugs or adapters don't work safely with the SCART pinout, even though they use the same physical connector type. This is, again, why you should label these cables.

For your BVM, you probably will have a setup like this: System cables that end in a SCART plug, possibly a SCART switch in the middle, and then a SCART breakout cable which terminates in BNC plugs, which you will then plug straight into the BVM. For this setup, it doesn't matter what the intermediate pinout is so long as all the cables / switch agree, though you should still know and label properly (for example, you don't want to plug a Euro SCART cable into a Micomsoft upscaler that requires the Japanese pinout). There are choices for other types of video switches / distribution boxes, but with how widespread SCART is, I'm not sure they are very practical to use.

I wish someone would sell affordable BNC RGBs/RGBHV cables for every console. Would be so much more convenient: buy an Extron Crosspoint matrix switcher and off you go.

[mvsfan]

Ive thought about that too.

extron crosspoints have tons of inputs.

Of course, you could always buy a bunch of scart to bnc adapters. hed probably give you a huge deal if you plan on buying so many to fill up a crosspoint.

I would almost have to do that because i already have so many scart cables.

[leonk]

I think proper shielding is the most important thing. If you ever open a high quality VGA cable you'll notice that the actual video wires are very thin. It's the multiple layers of shielding that makes all the difference. TP Ethernet cable has no shielding at all. I'm not sure how good they will be for analogue signal. Digital signal has inherit error correction.

[mvsfan]

yeah but they have STP with individual sheilds around each pair as well as an outer sheild.

[Ronin]

Well, I don't think we've answered the question yet, so here's my stab at it:

Coax is just the wire between the connectors in the finished cable. (When I use the word "cable" I mean the finished product with its connectors ready to be plugged in.)

SCART is referring to the physical connector (and the wiring arrangement, aka pinout, within it), not the wire.

Some people don't use SCART. This is actually an interesting point for you because I imagine your BVM monitor has BNC connectors for RGB, and doesn't use SCART. Unless you use a SCART switch, SCART is doing nothing for you, except be a commonly used semi-standard for people making finished cables (which is why all my RGB cables have SCART type plugs, most wired according to the SCART standard). Note that you need to pay attention to the pinout: Use either the SCART (sometimes called Euro SCART) pinout all the way through, or the Japanese pinout - JP-21 (also sometimes called RGB-21 I think) all the way through your system, and be aware of what devices you have that can accept each. Micomsoft upscalers with SCART plugs or adapters don't work safely with the SCART pinout, even though they use the same physical connector type. This is, again, why you should label these cables.

For your BVM, you probably will have a setup like this: System cables that end in a SCART plug, possibly a SCART switch in the middle, and then a SCART breakout cable which terminates in BNC plugs, which you will then plug straight into the BVM. For this setup, it doesn't matter what the intermediate pinout is so long as all the cables / switch agree, though you should still know and label properly (for example, you don't want to plug a Euro SCART cable into a Micomsoft upscaler that requires the Japanese pinout). There are choices for other types of video switches / distribution boxes, but with how widespread SCART is, I'm not sure they are very practical to use.

Ah, ok. Thanks for clearing that up for me. This is my first time dealing with scart. And yes, I am going to be using a scart to bnc adapter to connect my game systems to my bvm. The only thing I am unsure about is if I should get the adapter with the built-in sync stripper. If I'm using scart cables with csync is there any need for me to get the adapter with the sync stripper?

[RGB32E]

If I'm using scart cables with csync is there any need for me to get the adapter with the sync stripper?

Generally speaking no. However, there are consoles such as the PlayStation that do not output CSYNC that require a sync stripper if your monitor will not accept composite/luma video as sync. Which BVM model do you have?

Speaking to cable quality, there are a number of factors that can affect quality. For instance, the standard cable stock used by Retro Gaming Accessories has a decent amount of cross-talk, while their "pro" upgrade is way too thick and doesn't even use individual mini-coax for the audio signals. While not euro SCART, the new Solaris Japan cables have the right balance of being multi mini coax cables and not being oversized. However, they are the Japanese pinout (RGB21) and use luma as sync, so your BVM might not accept that without a sync stripper.

https://solarisjapan.com/collections/pro-rgb-cable

I've found that Belden's multi conductor cable that uses Datalene (thick foam) insulation works pretty much as well as mini coax, but none of the common sellers will use such expensive cable stock.

For 240p and 4' wires, I think it's a waste of $$$.

Yes, you might as well call them chords.

[mvsfan]

csync is what you get out of composite video sync when using a sync stripper.

answer is no, you dont need the sync stripper as long as all of your consoles are using csync, or if you are having syncing issues.

My sega genesis needs a sync stripper. it makes the sync stop dropping out. no idea why the genesis does that.

[Ronin]

If I'm using scart cables with csync is there any need for me to get the adapter with the sync stripper?

Generally speaking no. However, there are consoles such as the PlayStation that do not output CSYNC that require a sync stripper if your monitor will not accept composite/luma video as sync. Which BVM model do you have?

Speaking to cable quality, there are a number of factors that can affect quality. For instance, the standard cable stock used by Retro Gaming Accessories has a decent amount of cross-talk, while their "pro" upgrade is way too thick and doesn't even use individual mini-coax for the audio signals. While not euro SCART, the new Solaris Japan cables have the right balance of being multi mini coax cables and not being oversized. However, they are the Japanese pinout (RGB21) and use luma as sync, so your BVM might not accept that without a sync stripper.

https://solarisjapan.com/collections/pro-rgb-cable

I've found that Belden's multi conductor cable that uses Datalene (thick foam) insulation works pretty much as well as mini coax, but none of the common sellers will use such expensive cable stock.

I have a BVM-20F1U. So it sounds like RGA's upgrade isn't the way to go. Will their regular cables give me much problem? I'm planning to hook up my NES, SNES and Sega Genesis and unfortunately it looks like Solaris Japan only has pro cables for PS, Sega Saturn and Super Famicom. I'm also probably going to skip on a scart switch for now since I'll only be using three consoles at first and it's easy enough for me to just switch them out. I'm not sure if that makes a difference in anything.

[Ronin]

csync is what you get out of composite video sync when using a sync stripper.

answer is no, you dont need the sync stripper as long as all of your consoles are using csync, or if you are having syncing issues.

My sega genesis needs a sync stripper. it makes the sync stop dropping out. no idea why the genesis does that.

The Genesis is one of the systems I am going to be using. Was your Genesis having problems even when using a cable with csync? Because if that's the case then I guess I should get the adapter with the sync stripper.

[mvsfan]

Csync.

the sync was dropping out on certain parts of the game.

sync stripper fixed it.

Genesis Model 1.

also, a few other consoles like the playstation dont output csync, only composite video sync or sync on luma.

you also need one for them.

[Ronin]

Csync.

the sync was dropping out on certain parts of the game.

sync stripper fixed it.

Genesis Model 1.

also, a few other consoles like the playstation dont output csync, only composite video sync or sync on luma.

you also need one for them.

Cool, thanks. I will indeed get one then.

[Ronin]

On the topic of cables, I have one other question. The person who is modding my NES for me is giving me the option of installing either a Mini Din Port or a Multiport that uses multiout SNES/N64 style connectors. The Mini Din is cheaper, but other then that is there any advantages or disadvantages to using one over the other?

[Guspaz]

They would both carry the same signal, it's more a question of which is easier to find cables for, and flexibility.

For example, a fully populated Multi-AV Cable can use the same composite/s-video/RGB cables as the NES2/SNES/N64/GameCube, has RGB SCART cables available that can be used with SCART switches, and so on.

The NESRGB mini DIN can be, I think, directly connected to a Framemeister using just a mini DIN cable, but requires an adapter like this (http://etim.net.au/cable-adapter/scart- ... -guide.htm) to turn into SCART.

[Ronin]

They would both carry the same signal, it's more a question of which is easier to find cables for, and flexibility.

For example, a fully populated Multi-AV Cable can use the same composite/s-video/RGB cables as the NES2/SNES/N64/GameCube, has RGB SCART cables available that can be used with SCART switches, and so on.

The NESRGB mini DIN can be, I think, directly connected to a Framemeister using just a mini DIN cable, but requires an adapter like this (http://etim.net.au/cable-adapter/scart- ... -guide.htm) to turn into SCART.

Looking at the cable for the mini DIN port on retro console accessories' ebay page, they mention that the nes rgb is prone to sound output interference so the cable has isolated audio via a 3.5mm plug. So I guess that would be the way to go. The only problem is that it doesn't appear to have csync like the multiout cable does. Although, if I have a scart to bnc adapter with a sync stripper, then that should not be an issue, right?

[BuckoA51]

My sega genesis needs a sync stripper. it makes the sync stop dropping out. no idea why the genesis does that.

Properly wired cysnc cable for Genesis 1 should be fine, it's just most people don't wire it properly. Make sure you have the capacitor as shown here https://playoffline.wordpress.com/cable/md1rgb/

[Voultar]

A Genesis will still have some nasty jailbars, even if you use c-sync for RGB.

The blue output from the VDP is too close to that damn noisy sub-carrier. You can mitigate 99.5% of the the jail-bars by either;

Cut the RGB output lines from the VDP and use shielded cable to jump RGB from the VDP to the RGB inputs of the encoder.

Taking the subcarrier/chroma signal out of circuit. (This kills composite, but RGB lives to tell the tale.)

I recommend option 1. Just shield the RGB signals on their way to the encoder.

[Josh128]

?

I have a Genesis and a Genesis 2 and use the "raw boosted sync" cable from Retro Console Accessories and have a pristine, jail-bar free image on both-- tested on the F4500 plasma and Trinitron Wega.

Is there something different about her cables that gives a jail-bar free image when other C-sync cables do not?

[Voultar]

http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthread ... -Revisited

[bobrocks95]

There are also nearly a dozen motherboard revisions for the Genesis, may very well be a YMMV thing. Again, in my experience, going from composite video for sync to csync on my Genesis II made it so I couldn't notice jailbars any more on my CRT.

They could still be there though; I wouldn't doubt it coming down to an inherent circuit design flaw given how god-awfully Sega screwed up the Genesis II's audio circuit.

[Josh128]

http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthread ... -Revisited

For me using an LM1881 as a CSync amplifier and using CSync from the console(Not composite video) removed any and all traces of jailbars for me.

I guess this is what RCA's "raw boosted sync" must do then...