Shooters vs Run n Guns

[PooshhMao]

You sound like you haven't played them that much. There are a lot of unique skills to learn in a game like Alien Soldier or Contra 3, and "just learn boss behavioral patterns" doesn't take into account rng or patterns that force careful reads and spacing. This is like somebody who doesn't play fighters saying "they're all just button mashers" etc.

Quite the contrary, I used to own physical copies of both games (well, Contra Spirits instead of Contra 3) and I pretty much learned to play that game perfectly since I could only afford two games each year back then.

[Squire Grooktook]

Yeah I 1lc'd c3 on hard too. But your memory must be failing it if you think it's just learning patterns: that game is rng hell.

[Hagane]

I don't get the praise for Metal Slug 3. Overlong, with lots of filler and subpar ideas, bosses take way too much damage, lacks the fast and furious action of X and 1. Much worse level design too, probably because they included way too many alternate paths. To me it feels like a huge step back and the true beginning of the saga's decline.

[Squire Grooktook]

MS3 is a lot messier a game, but it has some strong points. Once you learn the necessary strategies for each stage, it becomes a very tight, route based game but with a very nervy random factor that forces you to improvise just a little within the confines of the route. It's definitely more methodical though.

[BIL]

I'm actually okay with MS4 - it's decent enough in its "licensed ROMhack" way. Aesthetically a total fiasco compared to Nazca/SNK's stuff, of course, but it's fast, violent and more consistently+immediately challenging than them overall (I love MS1-3, but their curve is enormously biased towards their last stages - there's more tense situations and bosses in MS4's early game). Good soundtrack too, st3 BGM is hawt Monty Norman-esque. Just about balances out. Cheap as chips on PS2 budget reprint, also.

MS5's the AES title I dislike, if any. Struggles to generate the end-to-end carnage previous Slugs dish out by the stageload. st4 docks firefight is a rare exception, over too soon. Looks worse than MS4 too despite the new assets, due to 90% of baddies wearing masks. Still some fun to be had but the decline in sheer body-obliterating exhilaration is nagging.

Alien Soldier certainly did deserve a Saturn sequel, though as things are I'm glad they went with MD. Between Silhouette Mirage and Guardian Heroes' heaping tonnes of fluff, and the director's stated longing for more story content, I'd hate to think it might've ended up the same. By limitation or design, AS has a focus so incendiary its sole cutscene feels more like a necessary intermission. Just enough time between decapitating cyber-eagle and torching gigantic snow serpents for a quick grip and sip of one's chosen beverage.

And yeah - less of a run and gun than a calculate n' burn. :3

Spoiler

TAKE THAT YOU LOUSY CRAB (Phoenix Force full impact... sublime.)

Spoiler

PISS OFF FISH-BOY

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SUCK A DICK, ANT FUCK (・｀W´・)

[uzernaem]

I don't get the praise for Metal Slug 3. Overlong, with lots of filler and subpar ideas, bosses take way too much damage, lacks the fast and furious action of X and 1. Much worse level design too, probably because they included way too many alternate paths. To me it feels like a huge step back and the true beginning of the saga's decline.

Finally someone shares my opinion on MS3. With all the filler and copy-paste long corridors it feels like a (not very good) console game as opposed to quick arcade MS1 and X.

MS1 is my absolute favorite. Dieselpunk art style and jazz fusion music really make it stand out. The sequels may play well too but they look too silly and inconsistent imo. In terms of style, MS1 is like Garegga while the rest MS games are Batrider.

[copy-paster]

MS1 is the only game I 1CCed in the series, not too easy and not too hard, and some elements that didn't have in the rest of the game.

MSX is my favorite, it shares everything good in MS1 with new levels.

The only problem in MS3 for me is the final stage's boredom vertical shmup, especially the second phase.

I'm actually okay with MS4 - it's decent enough in its "licensed ROMhack" way. Aesthetically a total fiasco compared to Nazca/SNK's stuff, of course, but it's fast, violent and more consistently+immediately challenging than them overall

Agreed, it can be the hardest in the series, lots of random moments.

MS5's the title I dislike, if any.

The good thing in the game is the soundtrack, truly push the AES audio limitations. But then we know that it was an unfinished game so no wonder.

[Obscura]

Add me to the "MS3 is where the series went to hell" bandwagon (I actually think it's a worse game than MS4). 1 is the best, X is really good but the boss fights take too long (a trend that starts in this game), 2 would probably be my favorite were it not for that awful slowdown.

Favorite Run n Gun is easily MS1.

Gunstar Heroes and Alien Soldier both suck. I've never even heard of Sunset Riders before seeing it in this poll.

[uzernaem]

Gunstar Heroes and Alien Soldier both suck.

Alien Soldier can be frustrating at first but it becomes much more fun and rewarding once you get used to the controls. The game is hardcore. Also it is the best looking Megadrive title by far.

[Obscura]

It doesn't matter how used to the controls you get; the game is horribly boring. You either play "simon says" for five minutes on every boss, just timing your invincible move to go through their attacks with their tell as though you were playing Punch Out, or you just play stupidly passively and deflect bullets for two minutes to Phoenix Dash them. Both options are boring and shitty.

Oh, and I forgot to mention this, but the visuals are horribly overrated. I don't care how many technically amazing fake sprite transformations it does; it doesn't look half as good as Castlevania: Bloodlines, Contra: Hard Corps, or even The Revenge of Shinobi.

[uzernaem]

Castlevania: Bloodlines, Contra: Hard Corps

Those two have really bad color palettes though. Treasure made a much better use of 64 colors.

[Obscura]

If by "really bad" you mean "fitting for the game and not looking like a pride parade barfed all over it", then sure.

[PooshhMao]

The thing with Alien Soldier for me is not just how good it is, but how much potential I see in a sequel.

Sure, it's flawed - if you're not looking for the right moment to Phoenix Dash the bosses' ass, you're playing the game wrong, you'll prolong the fight for too long and the game will punish you for it.

Apart from that, the controls continue to be problematic for me even after logging well over 200+ hours of play - you'll learn how to use them, sure, but you can't help but wish that weapon switching wouldn't require standing still for a second and that switching between fixed and free aiming wouldn't require an unintuitive button combination.

The characters, world, and atmosphere it creates are masterful, though. That moment where you encounter Xi-Tiger on the roof of the plane has got to be one of gaming's most memorable for me.

On to Metal Slug. Yeah, on the whole, 1 and X are probably the best. I miss being able to destroy the scenery in the later games, but I can understand why they dropped it, since that must have contributed a good deal to the game's development time while providing little gameplay in return - despite being very enjoyable. I regret it was dropped since that was one of the defining features from the first game for me.

It's hard to argue that Metal Slug 3 doesn't provide the most variety overall, and definitely looks the best. After playing the later games, the first Metal Slug feels like it's lacking the zany supernatural element of the later games.

[Hagane]

1 is the best, X is really good but the boss fights take too long

Boss fights in X don't take too long, maybe except the last one if you are screwed by RNG (though it still goes down very fast once you get the Slug). If you use grenades/cannon ammo correctly you can crush all other bosses very fast. Yeah, not as fast as in 1 where you can kill some of them in seconds, but that's probably a good thing.

About Alien Soldier being boring and passive, I'm no expert but it seems to be rather fast when you know how to play it.

It's hard to argue that Metal Slug 3 doesn't provide the most variety overall, and definitely looks the best.

I dunno about the variety; you might get more options due to extra routes and gimmicky sections like the horrid STG part on the last stage, but the quality of those options is well below what the previous games offer. I think uzernaem is spot-on when he calls it a "console game" as it shares the big flaw many arcade oriented console games had: adding clutter to extend playtime.

And to me 1 is undeniably the best looking in the whole saga and probably the best looking pixel art game of all time. Things like the entirety of stage 2 with its abandoned train-yard with fallen towers and the following section where you can see the roofs of surrounding buildings are sublime and unmatched. Its visual quality is almost obscene.

[Squire Grooktook]

It doesn't matter how used to the controls you get; the game is horribly boring. You either play "simon says" for five minutes on every boss

That is how you take the longest possible time to beat the early game and the shortest possible time to die at the mid/late game.

Alien Soldier is a game of careful spacing where you bait enemies to wiff attacks (manually back up/jump to dodge) then carefully and accurately blast them in their weakpoint. The zero teleport is an emergency escape that allows you to get out of some otherwise un-salvageable situations but takes you completely out of punish range for the enemy. From the mid game onwards, enemies will also begin punishing it pretty aggressively.

If you play passively you will time out an die on the early game, and again mid/late game stuff will outright kill you.

[BIL]

My main criticism of Alien Soldier is the game being a bit static overall... what saves it from becoming crushingly dull ala the worst bits of Hard Corps or Shin Contra is the immense performance ceiling and attendant finesse mechanics. If a boss is boring I can just rip its face off. It's an assault course for demolishing in successively flashier, faster, riskier runs. Super Shinobi does an extremely similar thing.

Obscura this better not be like Dracula XX vs Rondo where you talk all sorts of shit and then reveal you've not played the game in like ten million years. 3: I got shit to do tonight. ;3

[Obscura]

Of course I haven't played Alien Soldier in years; I don't make a point of spending lots of time with games that are shit.

Same reason I haven't played Rondo recently; it's so grotesquely inferior to XX that there's no reason to play Rondo. Ever.

[Squire Grooktook]

Completely unrelated, but when I was searching for video game flame throwers to model my own game's signature attack off of, I completely forgot about Alien Soldier's absolutely furious RNG-ish spray. Will have to see if I can achieve something like that.

[BIL]

Completely unrelated, but when I was searching for video game flame throwers to model my own game's signature attack off of, I completely forgot about Alien Soldier's absolutely furious RNG-ish spray. Will have to see if I can achieve something like that.

I'd be so down for a game's worth of its "super" variant - you know, firing it with the wind at your back. Sadly you really only get to use it once, on Flying Neo (Gusthead is robo and thus immune), but it's sooo good! Burn motherfucker!

Of course I haven't played Alien Soldier in years; I don't make a point of spending lots of time with games that are shit.

Same reason I haven't played Rondo recently; it's so grotesquely inferior to XX that there's no reason to play Rondo. Ever.

Oh ok

[Obscura]

A horribly ugly sprite with lots of "impressive" rotations combining to create a stupid ineffective boss attack. Yep, that's Alien Soldier!

Game is terrible even by Treasure's pitifully low standards.

[Hagane]

XX better than Rondo? What kind of madman are you?

By the way, spending enough time to at least learn how the games actually work might help you to appreciate them correctly! Alien Soldier (and Megadrive in general) sprite rotated animations are quite ugly indeed.

[PooshhMao]

A horribly ugly sprite with lots of "impressive" rotations combining to create a stupid ineffective boss attack. Yep, that's Alien Soldier!

Game is terrible even by Treasure's pitifully low standards.

Granted, it looks dated, but we're talking late 80's mainstream consumer-level tech here.
You may not like Alien Soldier, that's fine, but it's an impressive technical achievement for the hardware it runs on.

The 68000 on fire indeed.

[dingsbums]

Sorry but I can't take a "best run & gun poll" serious that doesn't include Gunforce 2 / Geostorm .

[Jeneki]

My go-to run n gun is Geostorm. I love pretty much everything about that game. Absurd levels of firepower destroying background elements, jumping into mechs and tanks, the boss attack patterns, silly stuff like suicide enemies who rip the engine off thier plane and jump into you, and most of all the finer aiming controls via joystick taps.

EDIT: lol was I typing this at the same time as dingsbums above me? I'm on a phone and tying really slow.

[BIL]

I don't know how anyone could not love Geostorm, at least at a visceral level. It's a goddamn riot from start to finish. Everything dies hilariously and painfully, even robots (fallen tower snipers' neck-snapping "twitching arm" faceplant death is mean as fuck ). That doomed heli gunner suplexes a rocket onto your train in the most balls-out suicide attack ever is an unsung legend. Maybe not the most sophisticated game but one of the most raucously entertaining.

[Obscura]

XX better than Rondo? What kind of madman are you?

The kind of madman who doesn't jizz over every slightly rare game in a hopeless attempt to appear "hardcore".

No one would give two shits about Rondo if it had been ported to the PS1 and made available in the U.S. the way X68K was.

[BIL]

Rondo's not rare at all just pricey, like XX. ¦3

[Obscura]

I bought the US version of XX for $3 back in the day.

Meanwhile, Rondo literally wasn't available in my region, and neither was the console that played it.

[BIL]

Pfff, you mean "Castlevania: Dracula X" the one where Death leaks cum all over the screen and Richter is some kinda water balloon simulacrum of a man? That ain't XX muhfucka. THIS BE XX

[Obscura]

The "water and semen" version of XX is still better than Rondo.

(If you're just looking for some gorehound Castlevania, Bloodlines is easily tops.)