raiden and relative difficulties across the series

[MintyTheCat]

Hello all,

I have been playing raiden DX these last couple of weeks having not played for quite a while.
Since I played a raiden Shmup years ago it has always struck me just how well designed and polished these games are.

I decided to give raiden 2 a go as I had not played it for ages just to compare it to DX. My goodness, it is a lot harder! I got blown away big time I had completely forgotten how full on raiden 2 was.

I have been playing raiden Fighters this year too and that is a lot easier in my book compared to raiden 2.

Am I alone in finding this or is raiden 2 just a lot harder than DX and Fighters?

Cheers,

Minty.

[wiNteR]

I have only played Raiden3 and RF-1, both many years ago(especially Raiden3). Cleared Raiden3 and my best run on RF-1 was getting to beginning of stage 5 as I re-call.

At least, as far as these two games are concerned, I would say RF1 is significantly harder than 3. The thing is that, unlike Raiden-3, where you can reasonably improvise at a number of points (though knowing specific exploits/techniques for some patterns ofc helps), in RF1 the difficulty of the game is increased dramatically if:
- you don't know to speed kill at important points
- aren't aware of the short-range snipers beforehand
- don't know about specific safe spots and places to bomb

[IseeThings]

Hello all,

I have been playing raiden DX these last couple of weeks having not played for quite a while.
Since I played a raiden Shmup years ago it has always struck me just how well designed and polished these games are.

I decided to give raiden 2 a go as I had not played it for ages just to compare it to DX. My goodness, it is a lot harder! I got blown away big time I had completely forgotten how full on raiden 2 was.

I have been playing raiden Fighters this year too and that is a lot easier in my book compared to raiden 2.

Am I alone in finding this or is raiden 2 just a lot harder than DX and Fighters?

Cheers,

Minty.

If you actually want to be blown away in terms of difficulty try the 'raiden2dx' in MAME

It's a version of Raiden 2 on the DX board with the difficulty ramped up to 11... It seems to be a very obscure release, we don't know why it exists, or what market it was made for, but it was dumped from a PCB back in the day, long before the game was emulated, cracked, or bootlegged in any form, so it's a legitimate set..

Regular Raiden 2 feels easy after that, then of course there are the 'easy' sets of Raiden 2 with some tweaks in the other direction (again these are very weird sets, the Japan versions never display the 'for use in Japan' text, it's disabled on purpose)

[Strikers1945guy]

Raiden III was pretty difficult to play through, sooooo boring and slow.

On a slightly more serious note (although raiden III still blows) I always found the original raiden and DX to be the hardest. The Raiden Fighters series has always been easier from a survival standpoint anyways.

[Furry Fox Jet Pilot]

I would say in terms of difficulty from easiest to hardest it goes like this:
Raiden < Raiden DX < Raiden III < Raiden IV < Raiden II
Raiden Fighters 2 < Raiden Fighters < Raiden Fighters Jet

[rjosal]

Now I don't feel so bad at Raiden II. It keeps calling me back for more even though I can't even get close to clearing it. I haven't passed stage 4 yet. My best score is to credit feed until I get a 1 million point bonus for clearing the game.

[Ruldra]

I would say in terms of difficulty from easiest to hardest it goes like this:
Raiden < Raiden DX < Raiden III < Raiden IV < Raiden II

I only finished Raiden I and thought it was pretty tough. If that's the easiest of the series...holy shit.

[Kollision]

I managed to loop Raiden II (PXS) and at the time I wondered how much harder DX would be.
Many people said it was just like or even tougher than II, so I thought it would be good to take a break since Raiden II is so fucking intense (PSX ver. being faithful to the arcade as I'ven seen stated in a few sources).

if DX isn't that taxing then I might try it
of course difficulty can be very relative, considering what I heard of it's scoring system....

[Perikles]

DX Expert course is at least on par with II (pretty sure it's even harder), there's no doubt about that. I'm assuming that you guys are referring to Novice or Training when you say that DX is easier than II. The first Raiden is definitely much easier than either II or DX Expert course even though it's most certainly not an easy game in absolute terms.

[Despatche]

I can tell that the Raiden III bashing is bullshit when those people think the first three games are just fine for them.

Raiden is tough, though the player 2 side makes it easier. Raiden II has three different boards, but even the easy board feels harder than Raiden. The difficulty of Raiden DX depends on how you play it, and it can be easier than Raiden and harder than Raiden II; there's also its scoring to worry about. I think Viper Phase 1 is somewhere between Raiden and Raiden II.

The Raiden Fighters games are a lot easier if you don't bother with score. 2 is harder than the first. Jet, again, has variable difficulty and the game can end early. This series also has a large variety of ships.

Raiden III has an easier raw difficulty than Raiden, while scoring makes it harder; the R bug makes the game a little easier than it would have been. IV Light is easier than III, IV Original is much harder (because it loops), and IV 360/Perfect/Additional is harder than that. OverKill is more or less 360 with what is probably a harder scoring system. The Raiden (ship) can make IV a little easier if played right, while the Fairy makes IV... weird, I guess harder.

The various Raiden ports all have proper difficulties which greatly change the way each game is played. Raiden III and IV also have proper difficulties, and it should be noted that many people know the difficulty just below (which, unfortunately, is called "Normal") the standard ("Arcade"). It should also be noted that the higher difficulties of DX, III, and IV are never considered. Is this for real?

[saucykobold]

This calls for a table, complete with totally objective difficulty ratings a la that Japanese STG wiki:

R=Difficultness & Game & Valorous Deed R=04 & DX & Training 1-0 ALL R=11 & DX & Novice ALL R=18 & I & 1-ALL R=24 & II & 1-ALL R=24 & DX & Expert 1-8 ALL R=27 & DX & Training 1-5 ALL R=29 & DX & Expert 1-9 ALL R=35 & DX & Training 1-8 ALL R=76 & Zing Zing Zip: The Shooting & You attack to the More Evil Empire

People differ on II and DX Expert but I want to say they're roughly even. DX Expert's stages seem a tad more devious to me than II's, but recovery is a surer thing in DX (due to guaranteed full powerup drop if you die while maxed) and a bit of a nightmare in II.

One odd thing is that I and DX get way harder in their second loops... but II just gets a fairly slight difficulty increase. So you end up with I being (imo) an easier 1-ALL but a harder 2-ALL than II.

[MintyTheCat]

Some really good insights into the series from you chaps - thank you very much.

I played raiden 1 last night and I think that I will play it instead of 2 and DX to gain some insight. I absolutely adore this series and you can see even back then that raiden 1 was very polished and well designed and it stands the test of time for me.

[Jeneki]

If you want a giggle, try playing Raiden II for a while, then have a second player join in. The jump in rank is pretty mind blowing. No idea if the others do that as well though.

[rjosal]

Hm, maybe it's because the other player I have played Raiden II with is not skilled enough, but rank seemed fine and the game seemed easier to me. Maybe it's different if P2 jumps in partway through though. I think it's one of the best 2 player shmups.

[Despatche]

You might have the easier version, which is significantly easier than other versions; it's about like Raiden, I think.

[rjosal]

I don't, I've considered trying it since it's so hard, but I've been making progress, slowly but surely. If you have a P2 who is credit feeding while you play on 1 credit for the whole loop, rank seems nearly nonexistent.

[uzernaem]

After playing some danmakus, Raiden II kicks my ass with its fast moving precision sniper bullets. DX is a bit easier if played not for score.

[PooshhMao]

I have been playing raiden Fighters this year too and that is a lot easier in my book compared to raiden 2..

Yeah, if you're not playing for score. As you probably know, the Raiden Fighters games are all about working the scoring system to get the highest value medal as quickly as possible and then maintaining it.

[MintyTheCat]

I have been playing raiden Fighters this year too and that is a lot easier in my book compared to raiden 2..

Yeah, if you're not playing for score. As you probably know, the Raiden Fighters games are all about working the scoring system to get the highest value medal as quickly as possible and then maintaining it.

I haven't actually looked at RF for anything more than just to play it. I will look into the score system though but I am concentrating on the original raiden games for now.

Thanks for the input - I am feeling a bit overwhelmed trying to consider them all at once

[PooshhMao]

I have been playing raiden Fighters this year too and that is a lot easier in my book compared to raiden 2..

Yeah, if you're not playing for score. As you probably know, the Raiden Fighters games are all about working the scoring system to get the highest value medal as quickly as possible and then maintaining it.

I haven't actually looked at RF for anything more than just to play it. I will look into the score system though but I am concentrating on the original raiden games for now.

Thanks for the input - I am feeling a bit overwhelmed trying to consider them all at once

Well, try to stick to one game at a time. You won't be able to fully appreciate them otherwise, and that would be a shame for games with such intricate scoring systems such as Raiden Fighters.

Really, it's where the true fun is at - and by all means, try to resist the urge to credit feed your way through the game. I'm currently having insane amounts of fun trying to get past the 2nd stage in DoDonPachi Daifukkatsu Black Label - I could just continue to see what madness lies beyond, but I'm not (in fact I outright disable continues wherever possible) - there's very little sense of satisfaction and definitely no sense of entitlement if you 'play' the game that way.

Getting the medals up to 100k a piece and see your score multiply exponentially in the hundreds of millions in Raiden Fighters makes for an absolutely exhilarating experience.

[MintyTheCat]

Yeah, if you're not playing for score. As you probably know, the Raiden Fighters games are all about working the scoring system to get the highest value medal as quickly as possible and then maintaining it.

I haven't actually looked at RF for anything more than just to play it. I will look into the score system though but I am concentrating on the original raiden games for now.

Thanks for the input - I am feeling a bit overwhelmed trying to consider them all at once

Well, try to stick to one game at a time. You won't be able to fully appreciate them otherwise, and that would be a shame for games with such intricate scoring systems such as Raiden Fighters.

If you read up the Thread a little you will see that I am sticking to raiden

Ooh no, I never credit feed - I do things on a single credit a go. I usually play Shmups on at least hard mode.

Rest assured, you are speaking to the converted I agree, it is better to push forwards bit by bit and improve over time than to "finish it!" like far too many of these younger people do these days...
My brother buys a game and finishes it in a single day. I call that lack lustre; our genre was made on blokes putting in the time and learning the tricks and even taking advantage of hardware and programming issues - we are much more hardcore than the fair weather sailors that dare to call themselves "gamers"

Rock on, my man as you are someone who is of the old spirit.