OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

[meneerbeer]

It would be interesting to ask people like Kevin and Marshall are doing in terms of HDMI licensing.

I read a few times that their HDMI transmitter chip covers the fee. They both use AD9889B chips by Analog Devices, I believe.

I am not completely sure if the chip really covers the fee unfortunately.

[Bahn Yuki]

Is there a way to find out if you've made the initial 50? I have yet to get an email to chicken or deny

[P1kas]

I believe those who've made it into the first 50 have already received an email confirming so. I know I did.

[Bahn Yuki]

Who was the email from? I'll check my email now

[blizzz]

The confirmation mail was sent on Nov 14th.

[P1kas]

Who was the email from? I'll check my email now

I will not share his full address, in case he is against it. The domain however was @niksula.hut.fi

[FamiDriveDuo]

How long will I wait for the second run of complete units? I'm very close to picking up a Framemeister, but I'm not sure if I should wait.

[Bahn Yuki]

Better to wait for reviews then base a decision off that. I can't find the e-mail, think I'll send marq a pm

[juji82]

wait for marqs!

How long will I wait for the second run of complete units? I'm very close to picking up a Framemeister, but I'm not sure if I should wait.

[RGB32E]

I suppose there's still a slim chance of ordering one from the first batch given that Marq's only sent out confirmation emails, and didn't request payment. Perhaps some will fall through and some who are next in line will be able to make payment! Perhaps I've said too much!?

[Rune]

Good thing we dont literally have a queue of people lining up for the product. Things could get ugly.

[Xyga]

I would believe it's after the review and feedback from the early adopters that it will get ugly, unless marqs indeed finds a decent/affordable workshop to handle some quantity production.

Anyway I suspect a number of people are waiting to see, or waiting for a future version w/ integrated audio, paintjob and stickers, stuff like that.

Was thinking...what if Micomsoft offert o buy his design for 1 million $ ?
(nnnnooooooooo!)

[Fudoh]

...that it will get ugly, unless marqs indeed finds a decent/affordable workshop to handle some quantity production.

this http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p1151660 didn't sound too bad.

Was thinking...what if Micomsoft offert o buy his design for 1 million $ ? (nnnnooooooooo!)

you're overestimating the company. There's a rough transition ahead. Dempa might get dissolved in the nearer future as the head of the company is retiring soon. Micomsoft assets might fall to one of the younger people there which would be good (as it would mean less bureaucracy for any upcoming projects), but it's still a transition.

From a market volume perspective, we're looking at about 7,000 FMs sold till today. Numbers will probably remain steady till 10,000, but that's a number that a successor product can't reach this easily. It's tough sell to get people to upgrade from the FM. Micomsoft already has the tech to build a simpler processor (much like Marqs's OSSC) and we suggested it quite some time ago - even before Marqs started working on this project. The OSSC is great, but the numbers won't hurt Micomsoft and as long as people buy a 38,000 yen processor, Micomsoft won't release a 20,000 yen alternative.

[Xyga]

Well I wasn't serious about the figure lol, don't worry.

Not like I expect the pic below to happen but it's always good to think of scenarios where the product/service becomes much more popular than expected even in the most optimistic forecast.
I've seen it happen in the past when part of my job was to support manufacturers with the introduction of new products.
It's rare, but it happens and it's a total panic for some time lol, extremely enjoyable though as long as the lead times from production remain acceptable.

[Fudoh]

missing audio is probably the biggest issue right now. It's managable for us and those who want it to work, but for the "mainstream" it's a problem. But the ground work is done, the results are stunning and if we see a mk2 version maybe in a year from now - - with audio and optional frame buffer to make the output resolutions more flexible, then it's going to be a problem for Micomsoft.

[Xyga]

if we see a mk2 version maybe in a year from now - - with audio and optional frame buffer to make the output resolutions more flexible, then it's going to be a problem for Micomsoft.

I can imagine that!

[marqs]

That said, the MPEG LA recently started claiming that they own patents on DP, and that they are owed $0.20 per device (no annual fee, just $0.20 per device). These are currently just claims, however, as nobody has tested their patent claims in court.

I've got no idea about the complexity of implementing DisplayPort with audio, though. It would make the device very flexible, since it could easily be converted to DVI, HDMI, or VGA with affordable active adapters, but maybe it's harder to implement.

I've been looking into DisplayPort and it'd be a good choice for a future version.

How long will I wait for the second run of complete units? I'm very close to picking up a Framemeister, but I'm not sure if I should wait.

It will take at least one month from the shipment of first batch before second batch could be available, because a) I want to wait a few weeks to get some feedback from the first run and b) it takes some time for the pcb company to source all the required components, assemble new boards and ship them to me (plus I probably need to burn firmware to all boards manually and place them into cases).

I would believe it's after the review and feedback from the early adopters that it will get ugly, unless marqs indeed finds a decent/affordable workshop to handle some quantity production.

NexPCB seems to be a good company for projects like this. They should be able to easily handle orders of 50 or 100 boards in an affordable price.

Was thinking...what if Micomsoft offert o buy his design for 1 million $ ?
(nnnnooooooooo!)

Haha, it's more likely that they'd try to hire me to make a new design with proper resources .

Not like I expect the pic below to happen but it's always good to think of scenarios where the product/service becomes much more popular than expected even in the most optimistic forecast.
I've seen it happen in the past when part of my job was to support manufacturers with the introduction of new products.
It's rare, but it happens and it's a total panic for some time lol, extremely enjoyable though as long as the lead times from production remain acceptable.

It's still a few years until 2019 so there's time to build such headquarters in LA - I could also finish my Ph.D. by then so I could be called Dr. Marqs .

[Ed Oscuro]

Before you move into digs like that, you might want to buy a very sturdy helmet which covers your eyes. Speaking also of the future, will you likely have any interest in a board for 4K TVs down the road?

[marqs]

Before you move into digs like that, you might want to buy a very sturdy helmet which covers your eyes. Speaking also of the future, will you likely have any interest in a board for 4K TVs down the road?

4K (4096x2160) would be great for 240p since 2160 is an interger multiple of it. Similar integer scaling could be applied horizontally to achieve pixel-perfect reproduction of modes like 256x240 in almost correct aspect ratio. In reality, a very powerful FPGA and expensive PCB would be required to handle high pixel clocks required by 4K.

[Guspaz]

You're unlikely to find many displays that support 4096x2160, they mostly support 3840x2160.

Here was Kevtris' thoughts on 4K support over on AtariAge:

Unfortunately, more than 1080p is pretty difficult with an FPGA. That's almost a 150MHz pixel rate, so doing anything higher is pretty much out of the question. I don't think that transmitter chips exist for 4K yet even. You almost need custom ASIC hardware to drive 4K video these days. I dunno even if one of the expensive FPGA's SERDES could run fast enough for 4K stuff.

[BitFaced]

Can I sign-up on a post-50 waiting list but not leave purchasing information at this point and even cancel if I want to?

[Das Muel]

If this device can do what the XRGB-2+ can do (minus the wobbly sync), I'll be a very happy man. I'm hoping for fast, solid performance with no overly complex processing so I can concentrate on playing my games rather than playing with the device itself. I've just bought an inexpensive scart breakout to tackle the audio 'issue' and am pretty desperate to throw a moderately-sized wad of cash at you, Marqs.

I'm planning on using it primarily with a PC CRT, but I'm keen to see what it looks like on my LCD too. If the 720p mode doesn't work with my Panasonic I might try upscaling the 480p with my XPC-4, although really that's an overly convoluted chain for my tastes. Has anybody managed to test the 720p mode with any consumer LCD TVs (except for Blizzz's Sony) yet? I'm too lazy and stupid to do it for myself.

[Mantrox]

missing audio is probably the biggest issue right now. It's managable for us and those who want it to work, but for the "mainstream" it's a problem. But the ground work is done, the results are stunning and if we see a mk2 version maybe in a year from now - - with audio and optional frame buffer to make the output resolutions more flexible, then it's going to be a problem for Micomsoft.

**Bangs fist on the table** Review!
**Bangs fist on the table** Review!
**Bangs fist on the table** Review!

Sorry, im excited

[BuckoA51]

Don't forget to factor in VAT, import duty/handling fees if ordering in from outside the EU.

[bobrocks95]

I'm planning on using it primarily with a PC CRT, but I'm keen to see what it looks like on my LCD too. If the 720p mode doesn't work with my Panasonic I might try upscaling the 480p with my XPC-4, although really that's an overly convoluted chain for my tastes. Has anybody managed to test the 720p mode with any consumer LCD TVs (except for Blizzz's Sony) yet? I'm too lazy and stupid to do it for myself.

I tried on my 2014 Sony set (KDL-50W700B) and it seemed to work. This was before AMD officially supported custom resolutions in-driver though, and I definitely could have goofed on setting it up, I have not had great luck with custom resolutions. Another modeline I tried didn't work, but I could have always been accidentally sending standard 720p before if I set it up wrong.

[Das Muel]

I guess the proof will be in the pudding for most of us. Come to think of it, the XPC-4 is faster than the Mini and the OSCC is basically latency-free, so in theory the combo could actually outperform the Mini for 240p, even though I'll have an awful lot of shit plugged in to the wall. Borderless, scanlined 1080p output and still relatively lag-free. Mega. In theory at least.

[BuckoA51]

I'm going to combo mine with a DVDO Edge for pan/zoom controls. I find the DVDOs 480p scaling more than adequate especially when there's scanlines and it will be interesting to see if the DVDO can handle the line tripling modes.

Also going to have a DVI splitter so I can route it directly to the TV too.

[Das Muel]

The XPC-4's 480p upscaling is excellent if you take the time to tweak it. Scanlined Dreamcast 2D stuff looks absolutely phenomenal in 1080p. The auto-adjust function is also really cool and fiddle-free. Its weakness is that it doesn't generate scanlines internally and the otherwise awesome auto-adjust feature makes getting correctly-aligned scanlines (with an SLG) a pain. It also doesn't really handle 480i at all, so it needs to be chained to something else for my particular sources.

[marqs]

Can I sign-up on a post-50 waiting list but not leave purchasing information at this point and even cancel if I want to?

Sure - I'm not even accepting any purchasing info yet since the price is not final.

If the 720p mode doesn't work with my Panasonic I might try upscaling the 480p with my XPC-4, although really that's an overly convoluted chain for my tastes. Has anybody managed to test the 720p mode with any consumer LCD TVs (except for Blizzz's Sony) yet? I'm too lazy and stupid to do it for myself.

I wouldn't hold high hopes for any customer TV, especially if HDMI is the only digital input. They are designed only for a couple fixed modes and even a small deviation from spec-defined refresh rates or line counts can cause issues.

Speaking of modes, I did some tests with my SC512-N1-L and found out that the strange color component error takes only place when horizontal total is 1705 pixels - 1704, 1706 etc. are fine. Too bad 1705 just happens to be 5x the dots/line rate of NES,SNES etc. I also noticed some general bugs that Micomsoft hopefully will fix at some point. For example, below is a screencap taken from OSSC's basic display calibration pattern (which is BTW generated at spec-compliant 720x480@59.94Hz) - you can notice vertical banding on the gradient which doesn't exist when connected to a proper monitor. I made a similar setup with PC connected to SC512-N1-L to verify the problem is not OSSC-related, and also tried tweaking all relevant parameters in SC512-N1-L settings.

[Das Muel]

Proof if proof were needed that Nintendo are evil.