The single best video game ever made according to you ? (OP)

[Blinge]

Final Fantasy / Dragon Quest style JRPGs (which includes Chrono Trigger) are the bottom of the barrel when it comes to games. Mechanics wise they are indefensible by any standard; braindead easy, simple, easily exploitable, full of filler, super repetitive due to the limited options you have... and the plots are fine if you are around twelve years old? Also leveling up characters is probably the single worst mechanic ever.
.

Not that I particularly value the opinion of someone who said Psikyo games aren't memorisers, but I'd like to know what (j)RPGs you consider to have good plots. (for ages above 12)

[Squire Grooktook]

FF6, Chrono Trigger, most of the Phantasy Stars...fun atmosphere and story-ish whether your twelve or not.

All you need is imagination

*draws rainbow with hands*

As for gameplay, I enjoy a good strict dungeon crawl/dangerous expedition simulator, so long as it doesn't take the Super Meat Boy route (uhhh reverse chronology metaphor) and let me save every 5 steps. Fuck that. Give me the tension of having to make life or limb decisions with each step (instead of save scumming with each step) whilst carefully managing my resources, and I'll be having fun.

Also fuck this topic reminds me of how awesome Etrian Odyssey 3 is. There's almost no plot but I ended up liking the plot anyway because the atmosphere and gameplay was so immersive that it ended up dragging me mind and soul into its murky labyrinths. Legendary OST too.

Oh and the true final dungeon is R'yleh and the true final boss is Cthulhu. Doesn't get much better then that.

[Perikles]

I can see Hagane's point, but I actually don't mind my simple RPG from time to time. There are some outstanding exceptions (Valkyrie Profile is such an amazing hybrid!) but he's obviously right that most of your Dragon Quest/Final Fantasy games will only have so many meaningful options. Why bother with some debuff that has something like a 10% chance of working if you can kill the enemy with two regular attacks, anyway? How many games can you name where poisoning an enemy is actually worthwhile? Just how many useless battle items are there in most RPGs? Heck, you can hold the attack button for most of those games and still be fine. And the majority of the old-school RPGs that are actually "harder" will simply require you to grind (like The 7th Saga, I've heard that the SFC Elnard is a lot easier). Compared to any genre that forces the player to properly delve into the mechanics to get anywhere this is - strictly objectively speaking - less than desirable. I personally don't mind it, yet I can lucidly see why someone else would be bothered by it. That's why I love Dragon Quest IV on the DS so much - almost anything in the game is fairly useful, your debuffs, buffs, elements, usable weapons, you name it. Still not a particularly tough game, yet very enjoyable.

I don't understand how anyone could call Chrono Trigger a bad game by JRPG standards, though. That's obviously a hyperbole.

And R-Type deserves every single bit of praise it gets!

[Squire Grooktook]

At the same time, someone who thinks the genre is "bottom of the barrel" and fundamentally hates one of its most ubiquitous mechanics (leveling) doesn't exactly strike me as being someone who'd play enough games in the genre to justify a statement such as "they're all broken etc."

It's like when you hear someone say all shmups are shit. Boy, I wonder if they've played more shmups then me and thus are in a position to make blanket statements about the general mechanics of the genre.

[broken harbour]

Having played it for the first time recently, I for one liked Chrono Trigger, but best game of all time? Hardly.

[Obscura]

As someone who generally dislikes jRPGs (not just "because they have levelling!" but because their design is uninspiring compared to even the most bare-bones western cRPGs) but has played a bunch of them (I tend to seek out promising titles in genres I dislike, in the hopes of finding "the game that will change my mind"), of the ones that I have played, Chrono Trigger is one of the worst.

Sticking to strictly turn-based ones, Final Fantasy 1, 5, 6, Tactics, Legends 3, Lufia 1, and Lufia 2 are all better games (EDIT: and Super Mario RPG, I forgot I had played that one, but it's also better); meanwhile, the only jRPG I've played that was worse was Final Fantasy 7.

If jRPGs are the bottom of the turn-based RPG barrel (and they are, aside from FFT, which is a decent four-stars-out-of-five game), then Chrono Trigger is is the absolute lowest of that crust on the bottom.

[Giest118]

I sometimes forget that this is a forum that collectively considers Battle Garegga, the worst thing in the history of existence (not just among games, but even counted among all deeds ever perpetrated by lifeforms or inanimate objects), to be the pinnacle of game design.

[Hagane]

Not that I particularly value the opinion of someone who said Psikyo games aren't memorisers

Don't worry, I can understand it being hard to figure games out when jRPGs are your reference for good plots and game design.

but I'd like to know what (j)RPGs you consider to have good plots. (for ages above 12)

Valkyrie Profile is probably the closest I can think to good when it comes to jRPG settings / plots / characters and overall world building. Being mostly devoid of the same dumb anime crap that plagues the genre is a nice plus. It's also a rather decent game too, despite unskippable cutscenes and some exploits. Still not by any means close to what other mediums achieved in terms of storytelling.

But yeah, truly good? None. Generally speaking jRPGs are all full of the same childish tropes and shallow characters. Grandia has a nice adventure feel, yet it's still clearly for adolescents. Matsuno's plots are a bit above the average (Tactics Ogre being his best), if you consider SRPGs to be in the same genre, but if you've ever read a good book (something hard to find among the genre's enthusiasts since its public consists mostly of anime fans) or comic or watched a good movie you realize they are meant for young minds. Sadly, "evil guy in the end wasn't that bad " seems to be what passes for good storytelling among the jRPG crowd, so it's hard to convince them otherwise.

Personally, when it comes to storytelling in games I much prefer the approach of games like Dark Souls and La Mulana (though not RPGs), that build an interesting lore in an unobtrusive way, instead of dumping walls of embarrasing text to tell a supposedly deep plot.

At the same time, someone who thinks the genre is "bottom of the barrel" and fundamentally hates one of its most ubiquitous mechanics (leveling) doesn't exactly strike me as being someone who'd play enough games in the genre to justify a statement such as "they're all broken etc."

I've cleared every single "classic" from the SNES and PSX. Grandia, Valkyrie Profile, everything Square released in those systems, some Dragon Quests, many SRPGs (all Ogre games, FFT, Fire Emblems), all Tri-Ace games from that era, the Tales of... games, etc. so yeah I know what I'm talking about. I played nothing but jRPGs for several years when I was a kid. Fortunately I found better genres afterwards.

As for leveling up, it's indefensible on the form it's implemented in every single game I played. And I'm not talking about JRPGs only, it applies to stuff like Civilization or Mount and Blade, too.

The first and major fatal flaw with it is that makes yor avatar evolve instead of the player as it should be. This has the same effect in every single game with levelling up I've ever played: makes the game easier as you progress, when the game should always be more challenging as you advance.

Some say it serves to customize your character, but that can be done by giving you skill points as you stard the game, or making equipment different enough and not just a stat boost. Some say that is serves to gauge your progress, but as I said it measures the avatar's level, not yours. Considering that your avatar is supposed to be yourself in an RPG, it doesn't really make sense to let your skill rot while your character improves.

It makes earlier sections and enemies of the game irrelevant. Oh, look at that skeleton that killed me at the beginning of the game! Now it deals 1 damage and I can kill it in a single hit, with no thought or skill involved. Hell, this happens even in games like Dark Souls.

It's also a cop-out for proper difficulty balancing. Oh well we fucked up here, but have the player waste his time killing slimes for an hour or two and he will be able to bypass the challenge. Finally, it's also a lazy way to extend playtime.

Any way you look at it, leveling up is a terrible design decision, which somehow is though of as "depth" by many. Even if it still has old silly level ups, which could be removed to make the game better, Ys: The oath in Felghana is the only game I played that does something intersting with the mechanic, with its temporary boosts that act as power ups when you chain enemies. But that approach involves challenge, something jRPGs want to avoid.

[Giest118]

I know what I'm talking about.

Ah, but there's the contradiction. The only type of person who could possibly know what he's talking about is one who knows that Chrono Trigger is the pinnacle achievement of humanity and that its release was the event the entire history of the universe was leading up to.

Therefore, as you are someone who does not believe this, you cannot possibly know what you're talking about.

My logic is infallible.

[Squire Grooktook]

Best Kusoge Ever Tier: Marvel Vs Capcom 2, Battle Garegga

Waifu Tier: Fire Emblem, Dangun Feveron, Alien Vs Predator (Arcade)

God Tier: Cho Ren Sha 68k, Rayforce

A Tier: Ninja Spirit, Akumajo Dracula x68

Moe Tier: Trails In The Sky, Silent Hill 2

Mid Tier: E.T on The Atari

Shit Tier: your opinion, Ocarina of Time.

...but if you've ever read a good book (something hard to find among the genre's enthusiasts since its public consists mostly of anime fans) or comic or watched a good movie you realize they are meant for young minds. Sadly, "evil guy in the end wasn't that bad " seems to be what passes for good storytelling among the jRPG crowd, so it's hard to convince them otherwise.

Personally, when it comes to storytelling in games I much prefer the approach of games like Dark Souls and La Mulana (though not RPGs), that build an interesting lore in an unobtrusive way, instead of dumping walls of embarrasing text to tell a supposedly deep plot...

I've been reading classic literature since childhood (home schooling yaaaaay), and while I might have agreed with the above quote in teenage years and such, I don't now.

Compared to great literature, is any of this stuff "great", no. No it's not.

But that doesn't mean it doesn't have worth to a different part of the human mind.

There's a place for whimsy, escapism, silliness, sweetness, fantasy fulfillment, and in general "fun". And there's nothing to be ashamed of for that. Literature is food for the soul, but sometimes you need junkfood for the soul too. Sugar keeps you energetic.

As for leveling up, it's indefensible on the form it's implemented in every single game I played.

Try the linear Fire Emblems. You go from mission to mission, with a limited number of enemies in each and no chance to grind outside of them. EXP is an incredibly important and interesting resource that, depending on how you are forced to improvise each mission, can potentially change your long term army composition and playstyle depending on what kills you manage to get to whom.

Also what about Mars Matrix

[Xyga]

Having played it for the first time recently, I for one liked Chrono Trigger, but best game of all time? Hardly.

Just taking your quote as an example BH, but I could take many other on this page;

WTF does thatkind of judgement means ? Can't people get it was fucking incredible in its time, and it stayed so for a long time because the game marked the minds of many for a reason ?

Sure, things get old and anyone can get tired of stuff, even the hardline fanboys, but what a great work/production has accomplished even if it was 1000 ygears ago can't be destroyed, it was just never a thing for the people who never played it or weren't even born when it came out, or simply don't have any interest in it to begin.

For instance who still plays Space Invaders today ? When it came out it was fucking awesome and there were entire arcades filled with only that game.
It used to be a 'best game of all time', it deserved that status in people minds and remained in memories even though of course technology, programming and humanity have moved on.

The point of the thread was (well, still is) to think of a game that in one's opinion/heart, has accomplished that best.
Today of course even playing DFK is a fucking blast compared to Space Invaders. But that's not what it's about...
Can people understand the flaw in their logic when they say a game that has been acclaimed in its time for is shit, because it's outdated ? Or not to their taste anyway ?

Or if you prefer, not pointing at anyone in particular but: can douchebags realize they're douchebags ?
I mean what else ? If we follow their logic anything that ever reached fame...can be used as toilet paper.

I'd just like people to tell me what they consider the best things in life and I'll take pleasure in swiping my ass with whatever extremely well known/famous stuff they happen to mention. Easy.
If I got it right, this is how people 'share' today and what the internet is for.

Don't remember who (was it DEL or Eaglet?) burst recently saying we're all damn hipsters...well reading the forums these days I'm more and more inclined to think that indeed we are, and that's pathetic.

[/angry-rant]

[Squire Grooktook]

Sure, things get old and anyone can get tired of stuff, even the hardline fanboys, but what a great work/production has accomplished even if it was 1000 ygears ago can't be destroyed, it was just never a thing for the people who never played it or weren't even born when it came out, or simply don't have any interest in it to begin.

I dunno, I tend to have a pretty similar reaction to old and new stuff. I played some of these games when I was 8, and discovered some of them only now. And to be honest, I appreciate them the same. I also tend to feel the same way about new stuff as well. I don't see much difference between new good stuff and old good stuff.

I guess I'm just too mellow a person to have my mind blown by things (might have something to do with the aforementioned "READING IS BETTER" that my parents hammered into me).

Only game that really left a big impression on me was Odin Sphere. But I'll always acknowledge it as a shitty game lol. It's just a shitty game that spoke to me.

[Hagane]

Squire:

It might have worth to adolescents and kids. It did have to me when I was one. But now when I'm 30 and experienced much better stories in other mediums I can see how shallow these plots are.

But even leaving that aside, that wouldn't matter if the games were actually any good! After all, arcade games have no plots or dumb ones. But even in that regard jRPGs are childish, something to completely shut the brain off.

Even the way they tell stories ignores videogame-specific methods to do so, using mostly dialogue instead of meshing it with the mechanics and action itself. Yamazaki's animations in a KOF game tell me more about his personality than any text dump in a Final Fantasy.

[Blinge]

Don't worry, I can understand it being hard to figure games out when jRPGs are your reference for good plots and game design.

yeeeahhh, except I never said that. You've posted a lot of important critique, no need to undermine yourself with strawmen.

Personally I don't need everything to be a challenge or a high-brow story. Junk food is nice once in a while.
For the people who can never suspend their criticism, not just disbelief; I wonder how you ever enjoy anything.

[Hagane]

Well, it's good that you acknowledge jRPGs as junk. We finally seem to agree.

But, when time is limited, I prefer to not waste it with junk when I can taste good stuff instead.

[Squire Grooktook]

Squire:

It might have worth to adolescents and kids. It did have when I was one. Butnow, it's hard to not realize I am 30, and experienced much better stories in other mediums to how shallow these plots are.

I guess I'm just the opposite. Never cared about game stories when I was a kid or teenager, awakened to them in college.

Anyway, to make a comparison that's close to my heart: Are Ray Bradbury's short stories on par with a work of Shakespeare or any other venerated work?

No, they can't possibly be. They're 20 to 50 pages long! How could they ever have as much characterization, room for interpretation, bullshit to analyze, etc. etc. as a 5 act play, or any great work of literature.

Does that mean that Bradbury's beautiful, poignant, imaginative fiction should be discarded because it's technically "shallow" and inferior in terms of grand relevance to the human condition. Fuck no.

There is an artistry in simply spinning an entertaining tale or creating characters that can link with the audience. And just because something isn't as "deep" as something else, I don't think that's a reason to pass it off. Sometimes you don't need tremendous depth to have resonance.

Even the way they tell stories ignores videogame-specific methods to do so, using mostly dialogue instead of meshing it with the mechanics and action itself. Yamazaki's animations in a KOF game tell me more about his personality than any text dump in a Final Fantasy.

Honestly, I'm not even sure I agree with this.

The directness and atmosphere of games like Dark Souls is all well and good, but sometimes I simply find the active task of reading through dialogue between two characters interacting with eachother to have a directness and immersion in games that is unique to the medium.

[Obscura]

Anyway, to make a comparison that's close to my heart: Are Ray Bradbury's short stories on par with a work of Shakespeare or any other venerated work?

No, they can't possibly be. They're 20 to 50 pages long! How could they ever have as much characterization, room for interpretation, bullshit to analyze, etc. etc. as a 5 act play, or any great work of literature.

Does that mean that Bradbury's beautiful, poignant, imaginative fiction should be discarded because it's technically "shallow" and inferior in terms of grand relevance to the human condition. Fuck no.

Ray Bradbury is kinda crap, though. We should probably discard it for that reason, not because of its brevity.

WTF does thatkind of judgement means ? Can't people get it was fucking incredible in its time, and it stayed so for a long time because the game marked the minds of many for a reason ?

Chrono Trigger was NOT incredible in its time; FF1, 5, and 6, Lufia 1 and 2, and more, were already out and were vastly better. And that's not even mentioning what western cRPGs had been doing since Ultima IV.

But, even if it was incredible in its time, it doesn't follow that it's the best game of all time. By that logic, we should all be driving around Ford Model-Ts, because it was possibly the most impressive feat in the history of the automobile industry. But, things improve over time, and judging something as "the best ever made" according to its position 20 years ago instead of today is silly.

[Hagane]

Squire:

On authors: there are different levels of mastery in literature, yes. Dostoyevsky makes Paulo Coelho read like crap. It's not a matter of difference, it's a matter of levels of mastery.Don't want to turn this into literature discussion, though.

On storytelling methods: Reading dialogue is not unique to the medium. Using stages, mechanics, animations, puzzles, items and so on are methods unique to videogames, and jRPGs utterly fail to utilize them well. There's no need to ignore dialogue of course, but it shouldn't be the only way to tell a story in a videogame.

That's one of the reasons why I hold the first Silent Hill in such a high regard: it manages to tell a lot with a sound effect. Or suddenly adding an elevator button that was not there before. Or obscuring things with fog. Or telling something through a puzzle. That is masterful storytelling in games.

[Giest118]

FF1, 5, and 6, Lufia 1 and 2, and more, were already out and were vastly better.

FF1 better than Chrono Trigger ppffthahahahaha

Everything else I could accept as being actual opinions that it's physically possible for a person to have, but this is just trolling.

[Blinge]

Well, it's good that you acknowledge jRPGs as junk. We finally seem to agree.

I thought you wanted to rise above the level of a 12 year old.

What games have a good plot, then? Any genre.
The *plot* of SH1 is kind of arse, actually. A bad plot told well.. ish.

FF1... And that's not even mentioning what western cRPGs had been doing since Ultima IV.

Ehh I dunno, I've beaten FF1 and cool/quaint as it is, it was just a ballache to play.
It's a problem I have with all western cRPGs of the time actually. What would you consider to be actually fun from that era?
It's a genuine question btw, no need to write some huge offensive retaliation.

[Xyga]

I was going to react but no, I give up, you guys have litteraly shat on everything I think and believe in when it comes to games or just appreciating things whatever they are.

Holy fuck I'm disgusted. Hagane please go skiing this winter.

[Squire Grooktook]

Squire:

On authors: there are different levels of mastery in literature, yes. Dostoyevsky makes Paulo Coelho read like crap. It's not a matter of difference, it's a matter of levels of mastery.Don't want to turn this into literature discussion, though.

True, there's a definite difference in mastery. But there is also a difference in genres.

You mentioned comics. So what about everyone's darling graphic novel, V For Vendetta? I'd argue it's obviously inferior to Dostoyevsky or whatever.

But at the same time it's a different kind of story in a different kind of setting in a different kind of medium. It gives a completely different experience that can't be replicated by anything else, so even if it's depth and mastery is inferior, that doesn't mean it doesn't have a worth of its own.

I would argue the same for film, which I think cannot match the level of character depth and texture in a great work of literature purely due to its length. Which is why literature is the medium for pure storytelling depth IMO. But this doesn't mean that the experiences that can be had in a movie are worthless and shouldn't be bothered with.

There's no need to ignore dialogue of course, but it shouldn't be the only way to tell a story in a videogame. .

And I never said it was! But personable dialogue alongside compelling gameplay can create a very compelling experience.

I was going to react but no, I give up, you guys have litteraly shat on everything I think and believe in when it comes to games or just appreciating things whatever they are.

Holy fuck I'm disgusted.

I hope I didn't do that Xyga Chan

I've only been trying to argue the opposite, that things should be appreciated for what they are.

[Jonathan Ingram]

so yeah I know what I'm talking about

Not really. Learning several pieces of information and reproducing them from your memory is not the same as being able to provide a coherent criticism of the said information. Whether you've played every role-playing game in existence or none at all is utterly irrelevant in this regard since the bulk of your argument rests on the ridiculous strawman(books have better stories) and petty slander(RPGs are for adolescents).

[Obscura]

Ehh I dunno, I've beaten FF1 and cool/quaint as it is, it was just a ballache to play.
It's a problem I have with all western cRPGs of the time actually. What would you consider to be actually fun from that era?
It's a genuine question btw, no need to write some huge offensive retaliation.

Try Dark Sun: Shattered Lands or Ultima VII. Both of those have very modern interfaces, and are easy to get into. Eye of the Beholder might fit the bill, too (play the SNES version, put the cursor on one of your weapon slots, then turn on "move mode" for most of the game).

I personally like Realm of Arkania: Star Trails, the "Pools" part of the Gold Box series, and Darklands a lot as well, although all of those have some reason why I wouldn't wholeheartedly recommend them to someone who is "ehh" on cRPGs from that era (Star Trails because it's the second in the series, is balanced around characters imported from the first game, and the first game is a bit rough in a lot of ways; Darklands because it's eye-gougingly fugly; and PoR/CotAB/PoD because the interface is, frankly, god awful).

[Perikles]

I do have to concur with Hagane once again in regards to the way many RPGs decide to tell their stories. Even if you're going for your typical manichean story where your vagrant bunch of heroes has to stop the cackling evil guy it'd probably be a better idea not to constantly exaggerate. I'm feeling a lot of second-hand embarrassment ("Fremdscham" should definitely be a loanword just like "Weltschmerz", "second-hand embarassment" is a pretty weak expression) by the overly blunt, childish dialogues in most RPGs. You really can't blame the developers/translators as they're assigned to target their audience (which happens to be kids), but you cannot deny that it impedes the genre in some instances. Extreme emotional outbursts and fairly boorish dialogues are usually not a mark of quality. You don't need to have intelligent stories all the time, but you can have a simple story that is intelligently crafted. Many RPGs have simple narratives that are transported via immature, somewhat awkward means.

Chrono Trigger was NOT incredible in its time; FF1, 5, and 6, Lufia 1 and 2, and more, were already out and were vastly better.

Couldn't disagree more. Lufia 1 is pretty much the prime example for a middle-of-the-road, bland RPG for me. Dry story, soul-crushing pacing, lackluster audiovisual presentation, no memorable moments whatsoever. Chrono Trigger is a fast-paced, innovative rollercoaster ride with lots of interesting setpieces and locales, great music and at least a somewhat creative, if flawed, story. I'm not sure if I would recommend Lufia 1 even to fairly obsessive fans of the genre, while most people will probably get some enjoyment out of Chrono Trigger.

[Hagane]

Squire Grooktook:

Comics:

I can't speak about V for Vendetta, it's been sitting there for a while and I haven't read it yet

But certainly I'd rate Enki Bilal's works as of a level comparable to the best books and movies. Or the works of Makoto Yukimura, Inio Asano, Jiro Matsumoto, Yukinobu Hoshino, etc. Preferring one over the other is a matter of taste in that case, not quality. Not the same as jRPGs, that don't really do things in a good different way, they just do them badly.

Film vs. novels:

Film is the visual equivalent of the literary short tale, and as such has its streghts and weaknesses. It might not be able to go as in depth as a book when it comes to psychological description, but its short duration makes for a more intense experience, and it has storytelling methods that literature lacks (which can reduce many pages of description to a few frames). Just like short playtime in an arcade game has its inherent strenghts and weaknesses over longer games like Civilization. In both cases it's a matter of difference and taste, not inherent quality.

Dialogue: It can, but not when it's badly written, it's the only way you tell the story, it's compulsory to read as in most oldschool games, and when the game is not good either.

[Xyga]

Happens to the best of threads.

Spoiler

*sigh*
I naively hoped we could make it at least to 10 pages before they came flying in.

[Squire Grooktook]

It might not be able to go as in depth as a book when it comes to psychological description, but its short duration makes for a more intense experience, and it has storytelling methods that literature lacks (which can reduce many pages of description to a few frames). Just like short playtime in an arcade game has its inherent strenghts and weaknesses over longer games like Civilization. In both cases it's a matter of difference and taste, not inherent quality.

See, this is exactly what I'm saying. Story in games can be like this: an experience that's different and has a different sort of appeal, but its not worthless simply because it can't match the sheer overwhelming, titanic depth of a time honored work of art.

Not the same as jRPGs, that don't really do things in a good different way, they just do them badly...Dialogue: It can, but not when it's badly written,

I might actually agree with you here, if you were willing to put "most" behind rpg/jrpg, there.

I'm not a fan of most rpg's or game stories, but there is the occasional game, occasionally within the genre we're talking about, that manages to resonate with me. Maybe it's just a fun ride on top of fun game, or maybe it's a guilty pleasure, or maybe it's genuinely interesting in some way or other...but whatever the reason, I end up liking it.

My point is, as it has been, that like film or short story, no game story can match literature in terms of sheer depth (and I personally don't think a graphic novel can either, but that's just my opinion). But, it can be an excellent medium for fantasy and magic. Based on that, I can't brush aside stories in games just because they're not as deep as whatever you care to name: the deep stuff is vastly important too, but I believe that there's a place for simplicity and short stories and fairy tales too.

[Jonathan Ingram]

Try Dark Sun: Shattered Lands or Ultima VII. Both of those have very modern interfaces, and are easy to get into.

Ultima VII didn't have a user-friendly interface even back then. Every item you pick up is piled into your backpack on top of whatever else you had there. No slots or anything of that sort. You have to micromanage all the trinkets you collect and spread them around the backpack's space in a way that wouldn't impede your access to them. Item management should never turn into such a chore. These days I wouldn't even recommend playing Ultima VII without the Exult improvements(better interface, smooth scrolling, keyring mod).

[Obscura]

The inventory was a bit unusual, yes, but was perfectly manageable if you used containers within your main backpack.

The overall movement/combat/environment interaction interface was more intuitive than games that came out five years later, much less what everyone else was doing in 1992.

Did they ever fix day/night transitions, town guard behavior, followers scolding you for breaking the virtues but never actually leaving you, and the game becoming unwinnable if you flew over the gate with the carpet in Exult?