Fudoh's ode to old display technology

[Fudoh]

@huggers:

Hi guys. Would I be able to use something like an Extron such

sure, they are many splitters and distribution amps by Extron. Most of them will require clean sync though. Some systems can output this by default, while others can't.

@dusfriend: 1080i should work. And so should 480p.

[PAPER/ARTILLERY]

Managed to snag a free Bang & Olufsen Beovision MX6000 but no remote. I can sort of get it working with a universal remote but it looks like I need a legit Beolink remote to access some of the more useful function. Just wondering if anyone has had any success in accessing the AV channels or de-interlacing options with a universal remote? Or am I going to have to fork out for a proper one from eBay?

[Sid]

Managed to snag a free Bang & Olufsen Beovision MX6000 but no remote. I can sort of get it working with a universal remote but it looks like I need a legit Beolink remote to access some of the more useful function. Just wondering if anyone has had any success in accessing the AV channels or de-interlacing options with a universal remote? Or am I going to have to fork out for a proper one from eBay?

A tip if you end up going to ebay - some people put their sets up for sale with little to no focus on the remote, sometimes not even picturing or mentioning it. I picked one up for peanuts after asking the seller if it was ok to bid and have the remote only shipped if I won. Explaining that they could do whatever they wanted (including re-listing it on it's own) with the tv itself. Price for my Beo4 in good nick worked out to around the equal of 7 pounds.

[PAPER/ARTILLERY]

Good news!

A while back I noticed my phone (Samsung Note 4) had an IR blaster built-in. I thought that was a bit weird and anachronistic at the time but it does mean I can take advantage of universal remote apps that use it. After wading through around a dozen such apps of varying quality I finally found one which emulates a Beo 4 remote quite well! The UI is a bit pokey but if it saves people 40-50 quid then that's great. For posterity the name of the app is IR Universal Remote.

[tacoguy64]

Finally got around to taking a bunch of pictures of my Sony FW900.
In order to play 240p games I am using the XRGB mini with a hdmi to vga adapter for some good results.

-The entire albulm
http://imgur.com/a/ao6wi

-Select pictures

Spoiler

[texaspowtapa]

got this ikegami tm14-20r

i have noticed a little black stain in the midle of the screen, it is not burn

any idea about how to remove this?

[texaspowtapa]

and another doubt

if i wanna run groovy mame in rgb on the monitor i i'll need a low res video card and a vga to bnc cable?

thanks,

[Fudoh]

And a sync combiner of any sort. RGBHV to RGBs. Passive works on most monitors. Active is safer.

[texaspowtapa]

without a sync combiner i'll not do ?

a vga to component might? as it sync in different wai that rgb do

[Traveller]

Hi

Just wondering, is it advised not to reset a PVM to factory default?

[sixbynine]

To be save I’d advise to write down (or photograph) all the settings prior to the reset.

[trydowave]

Hi. Is there any chance someone on here can do a guide on how to set up a Sony BVM. I've never used a CRT (or any monitor) that's so complicated in my life and I'm getting nowhere with the manual.

Here's a vid of a Sony BVM-20E1E (Operation hours: 67318) that I got recently.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cbD8lDZt3g

I just hope my one isn't on the way out...

Thanks
Tony

[Fudoh]

I've never used a CRT (or any monitor) that's so complicated in my life

that's the fun in it

[hector]

would removing the bkm-42hd from my bvm make it quieter? the fan is pretty loud. also if I removed it would i need a cover to replace it?

[Fudoh]

yes, there's no fan in the monitor itself. Only the HD-SDI cards have a fan. Just get rid of it. I wouldn't worry to much about the opening in the back. Just check after a few weeks how much dust has accumulated around the slot.

[Xyga]

Sorry if this was already mentioned, might just be my imagination but if I recall a few select consumer crt's mentioned in this thread (or elsewhere I'm not sure) shared a lot with some actual broadcast monitors, up to actual chassis and tube ?
'Consumer versions' of pro crt displays if you want.
What were some models please ?

[Fudoh]

The Sony GDM FW90 (and it's oem versions from HP or Sun) use the same tube as the BVM-D24, but with another chassis. While the BVM does 15khz, but only 1080i on the higher end, the PC version doesn't do 15khz, but of course easily 1600p.

Then there are the early 90s HDVS sets. There the pro versions and the home versions are rather similar (with the home version being equipped with Golden Scart for 1080i).

From a recent posting I recall the 2530 was available as a "high grade home CRT".

[Xyga]

Oh yeah rings bells now; Thx.

[cfx]

.

[FinalBaton]

Well........ the NEC XM37 Plus is pretty awesome
I was asked to post some pics, so here they are.

That's the best I could do with my crappy phone camera (sigh. well, at least it gives a good idea). Keep in mind that these pics don't trully represent what I see with my own eyes. The pics are way softer.

First is some 480p stuff from the Dreamcast (I only posted the links to the full pics). I highly recommend checking them out if that display in particular, or CRTs in general, interest you. In the last one we can really see the pixel structure :

The flexible zoom in Google Chrome is your friend ヽ(^。^)ノ
http://i.imgur.com/fCzb2sc.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/dH4oBfW.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Ito4x7w.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Hw8h2vY.jpg

[Taiyaki]

Well........ the NEC XM37 Plus is pretty awesome
I was asked to post some pics, so here they are.

That's the best I could do with my crappy phone camera (sigh. well, at least it gives a good idea). Keep in mind that these pics don't trully represent what I see with my own eyes. The pics are way softer.

First is some 480p stuff from the Dreamcast (I only posted the links to the full pics). I highly recommend checking them out if that display in particular, or CRTs in general, interest you. In the last one we can really see the pixel structure :

The flexible zoom in Google Chrome is your friend ヽ(^。^)ノ
http://i.imgur.com/fCzb2sc.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/dH4oBfW.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Ito4x7w.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Hw8h2vY.jpg

Up close that looks gorgeous, but what about from normal sitting distance, doesn't it come across as closer to an LCD in terms of blockiness and sharpness? My problem with PVM and BVM's was that they looked like LCD's with emulated scanlines from a distance. Up close they looked really neat but no one plays half a foot away from the monitor.

[kamiboy]

XM29 does not perform like the higher end BVM's. Plus having a gigantic 29" surface to play around with compared to the puny 20" on the SONY's it looks good from any distance.

It bears mentioning again and again, if you can get your hand on an XM29 or PVM 2950/2530 there is no reason for any hesitations.

[trydowave]

Fudoh. Since you know what you're doing... any chance you could do a set up tutorial on these forums or Youtube? The Sony BVM has me totally flummoxed!

Thanks
Tony

[Xyga]

flummoxed

Thanks I've learned a new word and I like how it sounds.

[kamiboy]

Also, guys, let us not throw the high end bvm's under the buss here. Saying that they look like an LCD with emulated scanlines is an insult. They are still CRT's and thus have that ethereal CRT quality that an LCD could never hope to imitate or emulate.

I myself had been coming down hard on the high end BVM multi-syncs in The past but after spending some quality time with my BVM-A I can safely say that it looks stunning displaying 15khz games. Which is something I could never say about a fixed resolution display.

[FinalBaton]

Up close that looks gorgeous, but what about from normal sitting distance, doesn't it come across as closer to an LCD in terms of blockiness and sharpness? My problem with PVM and BVM's was that they looked like LCD's with emulated scanlines from a distance. Up close they looked really neat but no one plays half a foot away from the monitor.

First I need to dislose that I never saw a BVM with my own eyes, so I don't know how those compare to the XM37 Pus.
Has for appearence from a viewing distance to the XM37 Plus :

For 480p stuff :
From 6ft away, you don't see the mask structure at all, just solid colors. But it still got something cool going for it over an LCD :
it actually looks shinnier than an LCD ever will. (I played the DC direct in a quality LCD before, as well as upscaled with an XRGB and into said LCD, so I can compare).
It just looks sooooooo shiny and crisp, and the colors are so damn rich, it really needs to be seen to be believed. The picture just jumps at you. I swear an LCD looks a bit flat compared to this.
So while it won't give for 480p the coarse look that many people like (and I think you're a fan of this look too, correct me if I'm wrong), it still provides a unique experience that only a CRT can. And that's why I like it. I was never a huge fan of the 480p res games, but after experiencing it on the NEC now I really dig it.
As soon as I have some more money to invest in AV stuff I'll buy a decent camera to post good detailed pics from a playing distance.




For 240p stuff :
From 6ft away, the scanlines appear full, but they have a bit of a jagged appearence on top and bottom due to the shadow mask tech, giving them a coarser look. But coarse doesn't = fuzzy! While the pixel structure is coarse, the colors are rich and well separated from each other and vivid, making for a crisp look.
I think that's how I would describe the look for 240p signal : a coarse pixel structure but a crisp as hell image (not soft!). Hope that makes sense.
It's a bit of a weird mix of attributes for a CRT, and looks different from consumer crts, pvms and arcade monitors alike. It's a very unique look.

[tacoguy64]

I have a BVM D20f1U myself and one of these large NEC monitors. The BVM does have a nicer picture. I just love how those scanlines just cut through my eyes with their sharpness. The BVM that I have has multisync so the advantage that the NEC usually have over other 240p/480i display goes away. The only thing that's left is size. And for me, this is one of the most important factor. The screen size cannot be overstated. These monitors are some of the biggest crt's ever made. They made some that went up to 40 inches (Sony XBR, Mitsubishi Megaview) but these are the next biggest ones. I love being able to play far away on my couch either alone or with a group of friends with this thing. The screen size compares to my 50 inch plasma in the 4:3 format.

[FinalBaton]

I have a BVM D20f1U myself and one of these large NEC monitors. The BVM does have a nicer picture. I just love how those scanlines just cut through my eyes with their sharpness. The BVM that I have has multisync so the advantage that the NEC usually have over other 240p/480i display goes away. The only thing that's left is size. And for me, this is one of the most important factor. The screen size cannot be overstated. These monitors are some of the biggest crt's ever made. They made some that went up to 40 inches (Sony XBR, Mitsubishi Megaview) but these are the next biggest ones. I love being able to play far away on my couch either alone or with a group of friends with this thing. The screen size compares to my 50 inch plasma in the 4:3 format.

So cool being able to play on an rgb monitor from your couch, eh?
My friends are bugging me to play on it, so Street Fighter Alpha 3 nights are now a thing at my place
Glorious, lagless fighting game fun

[KatKya]

it actually looks shinnier than an LCD ever will. (I played the DC direct in a quality LCD before, as well as upscaled with an XRGB and into said LCD, so I can compare).
It just looks sooooooo shiny and crisp, and the colors are so damn rich, it really needs to be seen to be believed. The picture just jumps at you. I swear an LCD looks a bit flat compared to this.

I can't agree more, based on my experiences with the Mitsubishi XC-3730c, and it extends into 720p and 1080i content as well.

The BVM that I have has multisync so the advantage that the NEC usually have over other 240p/480i display goes away. The only thing that's left is size. And for me, this is one of the most important factor.

The NEC and Mitsubishi sets still have one or two things over the Multisync PVM and BVMs. They have higher caps on horizontal sync frequencies (85khz on mine) and are much more flexible in the resolutions they'll accept, since they were designed to be used with PCs and the like.

[Taiyaki]

For 480p stuff :
From 6ft away, you don't see the mask structure at all, just solid colors. But it still got something cool going for it over an LCD :
it actually looks shinnier than an LCD ever will. (I played the DC direct in a quality LCD before, as well as upscaled with an XRGB and into said LCD, so I can compare).
It just looks sooooooo shiny and crisp, and the colors are so damn rich, it really needs to be seen to be believed. The picture just jumps at you. I swear an LCD looks a bit flat compared to this.
So while it won't give for 480p the coarse look that many people like (and I think you're a fan of this look too, correct me if I'm wrong), it still provides a unique experience that only a CRT can. And that's why I like it. I was never a huge fan of the 480p res games, but after experiencing it on the NEC now I really dig it.
As soon as I have some more money to invest in AV stuff I'll buy a decent camera to post good detailed pics from a playing distance.




For 240p stuff :
From 6ft away, the scanlines appear full, but they have a bit of a jagged appearence on top and bottom due to the shadow mask tech, giving them a coarser look. But coarse doesn't = fuzzy! While the pixel structure is coarse, the colors are rich and well separated from each other and vivid, making for a crisp look.
I think that's how I would describe the look for 240p signal : a coarse pixel structure but a crisp as hell image (not soft!). Hope that makes sense.
It's a bit of a weird mix of attributes for a CRT, and looks different from consumer crts, pvms and arcade monitors alike. It's a very unique look.

Aside from size how does it compare to your FV300? Are you moving over to the XM37 for SFA3 now?

The BVM is a fascinating monitor, colors and sharpness are incredible but the scanlines are very thick (this is especially bothersome on 3D consoles such as PS1 and up), and from a distance the image suffers from being too blocky and loses a lot of the attributes I love from higher end consumer sets even in the same size range.