Ikegami TM20-17R/18R (600 lines) vs PVM 600 lines

[andykara2003]

Hi,

I don't suppose anyone would know how the Ikegami TM20-17R/18R monitors (600 lines) are rated compared to the 600 line PVMs (20M2E, 20L2 etc.)


Cheers.

[darcagn]

I can't compare either of those exact monitors because I've never owned either, but I own an Ikegami TM20-80R (20" w/ 700 lines) and I love it. My only comparison to the Sony monitor series is that I also own a Sony BVM-14G5U (14" w/ 800 lines).

I primarily use these monitors for playing NES games so that's my reference.

The Ikegami monitors use a shadow mask while the Sony monitors use an aperture grille. While I prefer the aperture grille from a technical standpoint, personally I think shadow mask monitors also have their own charm so I don't knock it at all.

The thing I definitely prefer about the Sony BVM is that it has a ton more customization features compared to the Ikegami, but I'm pretty sure the PVM doesn't have near as many as the BVM so that's not really a factor in your comparison.

One big thing to consider is that the Ikegami monitors have a fully curved tube, whereas the Sony monitors are only curved in one direction. This means the Sony monitors have better geometry. But again, there is also a certain arcade-like charm to having the curved monitor of the Ikegami style.


Ultimately if I were trying to choose between purchasing the two monitors you have in mind, I would want to factor in the price and manufacturing date. I would assume that the PVM monitor is better because of the aperture grille and superior geometry, but if the price and manufacturing date of the Ikegami is better, I don't think you'd be making a mistake by going with that one. I definitely cherish my Ikegami and since it has a relatively late manufacturing date (2005) I hope it lasts me a long, long time.

While the BVM series has a log of tube hours, I don't think the PVM series does. I know my Ikegami doesn't. So you'll have to ballpark that based on manuf. date.

[andykara2003]

Thanks for all the info darcagn :) 2005! That was a fantastic find I think. My thinking is that I'm trying to go for the most 'arcadey' looking & least scanlined pro monitor without going all the way to a consumer TV. So my logic is that a low TVL (say the 600 lines of the TM20-17R/TM20-18R), combined with the shadow mask display (less heavily scanlined than the equivalent 600 line aperture grille PVM?) will give me just that - the polar opposite to my BVM. I do like the BVM, but it would be great to have the alternative as I think some games don't look so good with really prominent scanlines & could do with a little 'smoothing'.


Nice advice re. manufacturing date - although I think I'll be extremely lucky to find one as late as yours....

[ELabit]

The Ikegami is a very nice monitor but it is very long and takes up quite a bit of space. The picture is a little softer than the PVM but I was only playing with a Famicom so I haven't seen it with other consoles. There is also no internal speaker. It's still a beautiful display though

[andykara2003]

Thanks for that - the more I read about these 600 line Ikegamis, the more they sound like what I'm looking for. Nice soft scanlines, but still a step above a consumer CRT in clarity and vibrancy (or that's the hope). I've been offered a 700 line version (TM20-20R) but I'm not sure what to do. The 750 line JVCs and Panasonics have pretty strong scanlines so the 700 line Ikegami probably will too. I might just end up holding out for a 600 line model as the whole point was to get a monitor that's the opposite end of the specrtum to my BVM...

I thought this was a nice review of the 600 line versions:

https://andynumbers.wordpress.com/2015/ ... -tm20-18r/

[Fudoh]

If you have the opportunity to get a nice TM20-20R just get it. I doubt that the 600 vs 700 line spec will make such a difference compared to the fact that you're looking at a completely different type of tube compared to the Sonys. If you compare consumer TV sets, e.g. Panasonic and Sonys from the mid 90s, the Sonys have very strong scanlines already, despite them having the same TVL specs.

[darcagn]

The number of TV lines shouldn't have anything to do with the scanlines. TV lines are the rating for horizontal resolution (that is, how many vertical lines can be displayed side-by-side and distinguished before they start blurring together horizontally).

Scanlines on the other hand, are going to be determined by the gap between the horizontal lines drawn by the gun as it scans and the thickness of each line as it lights up the grille/mask.

[andykara2003]

Darcagn - I know what you mean - It shouldn't really make a difference in theory - but to me, my 1000 line BVM, having an almost invisible 'mask' due to the incredibly tightly packed horizontal rows of phosphors gives the appearance of very delineated scanlines, whereas the coarser, 'grid-like' appearance of lower TVL sets seems to at least give the appearance of slightly milder scanlines.. Maybe I haven't got that exactly right :/ But I know that a lot of people think that the BVMs seem to give stronger, more obvious scanlines than the lower end PVMs. Not sure if there are other reasons for this - I'd be very interested to know...

Fudoh - I understand what you mean re. Aperture grille vs shadow mask TVs. I'm wondering if the situation with the professional/broadcast monitors might possibly be different though? I've heard people say that the 900 line Ikegami's are as razor sharp/scanlined as the BVMs... The main thing that put me off is that in the review above, the guy mentioned that the 600TVL Ikegami will have much softer scanlines than even the Panasonic 750TVL monitors which are also shadow masks (and very close in TVL to this Ikegami), so I'm still a little unsure. I found a (4k!) video of the 700 TVL model I'm looking at buying & although the focus is a bit hit and miss, watching at 1080p I can see what I think look like quite strong scanlines at 40 seconds in...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lNib6f32HA

[Fudoh]

I watched the same video before I posted my comment above. If you have a look at the closeups towards the end (e.g. at 1:28) I think you can see that it's nowhere near your BVM. Actually looks quite stunning and exactly like what you're looking for.

[andykara2003]

Thanks for the input Fudoh - and for researching it beforehand :) I think I'll pick it up then, as you say it does seem to look very good actually - and less scanlined than the BVM for sure.

[andykara2003]

Oddly, the dot pitch for the 600 line and 700 line versions are the same (0.43mm).

600 line: http://www.ikegami.com/br/products/sdtv/tm2018.html

700 line: http://www.ikegami.com/br/products/sdtv ... 0_2020.pdf

If the distance between the phosphors is the same in the 600 and 700 line versions, does that mean the individual phosphors themselves have to be smaller in the 700 line version?

EDIT - Actually that doesn't seem right as apparently the dot pitch is the distance between the centres of the phosphors. So if the distance between the centres of the phosphors is the same, I'm not sure how you could have the options of both 600 and 700 lines on the same sized screen with the same dot pitch :/ For example the 600 line PVM-20M2u has 0.4mm dot pitch and the 800 line PVM-20M4u has 0.31mm.

http://lvr.vaesite.net/__data/920e93c89 ... 5b228b.pdf

Odd....

[mr_ppp]

Hi guys,

as the poster of that youtube video I hope it helped in some way and I wanted to apologise for the quality not being as good as it should have been, I was testing out the 4k feature of my Samsung phone to capture the tubes quality but to be honest even at 4k it doesnt do it justice, colours look more vibrant and not so washed out in the flesh.

I've attached some static shots that hopefully help

This unit as well as many more were all ex-bbc stock bought through their recent auctions from Television centre. A group of us arcade enthusiasts did a bulk buy on them, think it only cost something like £20-30 for me in the end and I couldnt be happier with it













In the close up Bosconian shot the logo is actually deep red throughout, my phone did something odd to the colour but the screen is even more glorious than the pictures can ever show. I even managed to get hold of an Ikegami service centre who happened to have the manual for it so if anyone needs a copy let me know. Sadly they no longer stock parts such as the remote control

[Ed Oscuro]

Cool, thanks for stopping by and sharing those pics

They have that authentic '90s grittiness to them, suits these games well.

[Bancho]

@mr_ppp

That really looks like a cracking monitor. I've always been interested in the Ikegami's but I've never owned or seen one in person. Its looks very similar to my JVC H2000-PNK. Good thing about monitors that are no called PVM/BVM is they can be had for really reasonable prices and offer as good a image as PVM/BVM's

[bodine1231]

Sorry to bump this but can someone tell me where the horizontal stretch pot is located on the TM20-17R?