Star Wars Episode VII: Cast Unveiled...slated for 12/18/2015

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Skykid
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Re: Star Wars Episode VII: Cast Unveiled...slated for 12/18/

Post by Skykid »

GaijinPunch wrote: Don't let the director off the hook so quickly. Natalie Portman, arguably a great actor (see her gangster rap video on SNL ages ago), but Padme... [shudders]...

Portman is not a "great" actor I don't think, but certainly sufficient and better than many. I think I came to this realisation in Black Swan when I decided it was a good, intelligent performance, from an obviously intelligent woman, but she lacks a certain depth and nuance IMO.

That said you're absolutely right about directors having an influence on an actor, and the best ones even managing to get wonderful performances from average actors. So Padme was certainly George Lucas's fault, almost entirely.

Portman's best performance is still as the hitman's apprentice and lolita in Leon. That really was first class.


Regarding Daisy Ridley, she hasn't had much of a career to date, but here's some clips of her in Casualty (UK TV). Sorry to have inflicted this upon you in advance:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndRJtrTugdM
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Re: Star Wars Episode VII: Cast Unveiled...slated for 12/18/

Post by BryanM »

Still confused why we're talking about actors when they can't even find the correct clothes or vests to put on them yet.

Rather cart before the horse, no?
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Re: Star Wars Episode VII: Cast Unveiled...slated for 12/18/

Post by GaijinPunch »

Portman is not a "great" actor I don't think, but certainly sufficient and better than many. I think I came to this realisation in Black Swan when I decided it was a good, intelligent performance, from an obviously intelligent woman, but she lacks a certain depth and nuance IMO.
Fair enough -- competent at least, but she'll never do wrong in my book after her performance in Closer. I still can't look at pink wigs the same.
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Re: Star Wars Episode VII: Cast Unveiled...slated for 12/18/

Post by Sly Cherry Chunks »

Skykid wrote:Regarding Daisy Ridley, she hasn't had much of a career to date, but here's some clips of her in Casualty (UK TV). Sorry to have inflicted this upon you in advance:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndRJtrTugdM
Awful. I don't like this 'Blue Peter presenter' style of performance. Makes me wonder if the only reason she was cast is because:
Spoiler
looks-wise, she makes for a passable sister to Kylo Ren.
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Re: Star Wars Episode VII: Cast Unveiled...slated for 12/18/

Post by Skykid »

Sly Cherry Chunks wrote:
Skykid wrote:Regarding Daisy Ridley, she hasn't had much of a career to date, but here's some clips of her in Casualty (UK TV). Sorry to have inflicted this upon you in advance:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndRJtrTugdM
Awful. I don't like this 'Blue Peter presenter' style of performance. Makes me wonder if the only reason she was cast is because:
Spoiler
looks-wise, she makes for a passable sister to Kylo Ren.
My problem is that every time she springs a line it's the audio equivalent of a sticking out nail - I can't take the school play out of it tonally.

It's obvious she can't act, I think that much is evident, so now I'm just hoping the rest of the movie helps to smooth it over like a kind of production-based vaseline.

It would be much better of course if big movie directors had any semblance of acting ability themselves, or the audience had some ability to identify and criticise accordingly - but now we're really reaching.
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Re: Star Wars Episode VII: Cast Unveiled...slated for 12/18/

Post by GaijinPunch »

Mark Hamill was pretty laughable in the first Star Wars and we all love it. But yeah, we have higher standards now... I admit.
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Re: Star Wars Episode VII: Cast Unveiled...slated for 12/18/

Post by Skykid »

GaijinPunch wrote:Mark Hamill was pretty laughable in the first Star Wars and we all love it. But yeah, we have higher standards now... I admit.
He wasn't that bad. I never considered Hamill's performance to be laughable.
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Re: Star Wars Episode VII: Cast Unveiled...slated for 12/18/

Post by Opus131 »

Mark Hamill is an excellent voice actor, so you can't say the man is entirely without talent.

At any rate, i have a feeling this movie isn't going to be very good, but people will regard it in a positive manner simply because it has nothing to do with the prequels, as if a slightly shiner turd ceases to be a turd. And the new actors look like they were both pulled out of some Disney channel teen show. That can't be a coincidence.
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Re: Star Wars Episode VII: Cast Unveiled...slated for 12/18/

Post by Opus131 »

GaijinPunch wrote:Mark Hamill was pretty laughable in the first Star Wars and we all love it. But yeah, we have higher standards now... I admit.
What's with this "now". Films today are much worse than what we used to get. Star Wars was a very successful franchise but as a film it was never particularly great. But by modern standards it may as well be seen as a cinematic masterpiece.
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Re: Star Wars Episode VII: Cast Unveiled...slated for 12/18/

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Opus131 wrote:
GaijinPunch wrote:Mark Hamill was pretty laughable in the first Star Wars and we all love it. But yeah, we have higher standards now... I admit.
What's with this "now". Films today are much worse than what we used to get. Star Wars was a very successful franchise but as a film it was never particularly great. But by modern standards it may as well be seen as a cinematic masterpiece.
I completely agree with this statement.
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Re: Star Wars Episode VII: Cast Unveiled...slated for 12/18/

Post by BrianC »

I liked Mark Hamill as The Trickster in the 90s Flash series, though I agree he's a better voice actor than he is an actor.
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Re: Star Wars Episode VII: Cast Unveiled...slated for 12/18/

Post by Mischief Maker »

BrianC wrote:I liked Mark Hamill as The Trickster in the 90s Flash series, though I agree he's a better voice actor than he is an actor.
Can't you just say he's grown as an actor?
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Re: Star Wars Episode VII: Cast Unveiled...slated for 12/18/

Post by Wasserkopp »

Skykid wrote:
GaijinPunch wrote:Mark Hamill was pretty laughable in the first Star Wars and we all love it. But yeah, we have higher standards now... I admit.
He wasn't that bad. I never considered Hamill's performance to be laughable.
Lol what you're all talking about? Hamill was excellent in Iv-VI, it's only a "common wisdom" among smug internet nerds that he was "sub par" or "bad" because trashing the main characters is a cool bandwagon.
The popular trope goes that "the characters the protagonist means are cool, like the rogue, the mentor or the villain of course, but main characters are bland and laughable lolololol" - when people apply it to Frodo, Neo or Will Turner, at least one can see how tone-deaf people could've reached that hapless conclusion, but when they start going off on Luke I just laugh because that's how you spot a brain capable of issuing smug chin stroking motions and not much else apart from that.
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Re: Star Wars Episode VII: Cast Unveiled...slated for 12/18/

Post by Strider77 »

So much "Nuh-uh, no you didn't!!" and "Uh-huh, yes I did!!" happens when it comes to Star Wars.
Damn Tim, you know there are quite a few Americans out there who still lives in tents due to this shitty economy, and you're dropping loads on a single game which only last 20 min. Do you think it's fair? How much did you spend this time?
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Re: Star Wars Episode VII: Cast Unveiled...slated for 12/18/

Post by Wasserkopp »

Xyga wrote:Weren't Hamill, Fisher and Co. pretty much TV quality as well in their time ? Lucas wanted young unknown actors (says the legend, I bet it doesn't mention 'cheap' on purpose).
What's a "TV quality"? Does this imply some kind of inferior quality, as if that was ever the case - or now, of all times?


Anyway, so I haven't watched the trailer yet, but based on some smart folks' assessments of Mark Hamill's capabilities here, I don't think I'm putting much stock into these reviews :)
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Re: Star Wars Episode VII: Cast Unveiled...slated for 12/18/

Post by Mischief Maker »

Wasserkopp wrote:...when people apply it to Frodo, Neo or Will Turner, at least one can see how tone-deaf people could've reached that hapless conclusion, but when they start going off on Luke I just laugh because that's how you spot a brain capable of issuing smug chin stroking motions and not much else apart from that.
Frodo:

Elijah Woods was the weak link in the Lord of the Rings movies. He did not look or act like a Hobbit, and you had Sean Astin's look and performance as Sam as direct comparison, and his acting choice of rolling his eyes to show the influence of the ring was dogshit compared to Ian Holm's acting choices for Bilbo in the same situation.

Neo:

The first (and only first) Matrix movie was the best combination of setting and marginally talented actor since The Terminator. Reeves' ability to wander around in wide eyed confusion perfectly fit the plot as audience identification character.

Will Turner:

I had to google that name to know who the hell he was (Orlando Bloom in the disney pirate movies) so that's pretty damning. But let's be perfectly honest, every character in these movies were bland and forgettable save one. I wonder if they had a bland script, then Johnny Depp came in with his Ministry of Silly Walks performance, and they rewrote the script to make the whole movie revolve around him, because Will Turner was nothing more than a blood sausage with legs that whole movie. Kinda like Big Trouble in Little China without the self-awareness.
Two working class dudes, one black one white, just baked a tray of ten cookies together.

An oligarch walks in and grabs nine cookies for himself.

Then he says to the white dude "Watch out for that black dude, he wants a piece of your cookie!"
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Re: Star Wars Episode VII: Cast Unveiled...slated for 12/18/

Post by Wasserkopp »

So was that supposed to be an example of the sort of vapid nonsense I mentioned, or... is it an example of the sort of vapid nonsense that I mentioned? ;)
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Re: Star Wars Episode VII: Cast Unveiled...slated for 12/18/

Post by Squire Grooktook »

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Re: Star Wars Episode VII: Cast Unveiled...slated for 12/18/

Post by GaijinPunch »

Skykid wrote:
Opus131 wrote:
GaijinPunch wrote:Mark Hamill was pretty laughable in the first Star Wars and we all love it. But yeah, we have higher standards now... I admit.
What's with this "now". Films today are much worse than what we used to get. Star Wars was a very successful franchise but as a film it was never particularly great. But by modern standards it may as well be seen as a cinematic masterpiece.
I completely agree with this statement.
Maybe I should have said we are more critical now. We would have lambasted most of his delivery if Episode IV came out now. In 1977, it just garnered a few chuckles.

That has nothing to do with the quality (or lack thereof) of most films coming out these days.
Will Turner:

I had to google that name to know who the hell he was (Orlando Bloom in the disney pirate movies) so that's pretty damning.
Thanks for the note -- I had no clue either.
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Re: Star Wars Episode VII: Cast Unveiled...slated for 12/18/

Post by Wasserkopp »

We would have lambasted most of his delivery if Episode IV came out now. In 1977, it just garnered a few chuckles.
LMAO, people still make fun of Shatner, even though they heavily rely on picking the over the top scenes and ignoring the rest which ought to tell you something as well.
Also people keep bringing up how Ford "phoned it in" in Jedi - so what in the hell makes you think people are somehow more lenient with past performances now while supposedly more critical of contemporary ones.

The only "chuckles" garnered back then were from stuffy critics who were all "this isn't vietnam but faiytale lolololololol" - and judging by the hilarious attempt at criticism by Mischief Maker up there who couldn't even do a proper job tearing down three much more exploitable performances, I'm not expecting much from the modern ones either.

Thanks for the note -- I had no clue either.
Of course you didn't.
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Re: Star Wars Episode VII: Cast Unveiled...slated for 12/18/

Post by Mischief Maker »

Wasserkopp wrote:LMAO, people still make fun of Shatner, even though they heavily rely on picking the over the top scenes and ignoring the rest which ought to tell you something as well.
Shatner's best performance was in Star Trek 2, but the credit for that goes to Director Nicholas Meyer. He famously did take after take after take until Shatner was so worn out he no longer had the energy to overact. Compare that to Ricardo Montalban who he said was first-take perfect every time. That might explain why there are no scenes in the movie where Kirk and Khan are in the same shot.
Also people keep bringing up how Ford "phoned it in" in Jedi - so what in the hell makes you think people are somehow more lenient with past performances now while supposedly more critical of contemporary ones.
A greater amount of criticism today does not imply a complete lack of criticism in the past.
and judging by the hilarious attempt at criticism by Mischief Maker up there who couldn't even do a proper job tearing down three much more exploitable performances, I'm not expecting much from the modern ones either.
Thanks for not reading, I was only tearing down two of them.
Thanks for the note -- I had no clue either.
Of course you didn't.
Yes, my point exactly!

Do you have any concrete points to make in rebuttal, or are you just going to sneer like a 12-year-old using non-stop sarcasm to try and bluff her way into looking like a grownup?
Two working class dudes, one black one white, just baked a tray of ten cookies together.

An oligarch walks in and grabs nine cookies for himself.

Then he says to the white dude "Watch out for that black dude, he wants a piece of your cookie!"
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Re: Star Wars Episode VII: Cast Unveiled...slated for 12/18/

Post by Wasserkopp »

Shatner's best performance was in Star Trek 2, but the credit for that goes to Director Nicholas Meyer. He famously did take after take after take until Shatner was so worn out he no longer had the energy to overact.
Interesting how a big chunk of his TOS performance wasn't overacted, either - must've been exhausted otherwise.

Hopped right on the bandwagon that I was describing :D


A greater amount of criticism today does not imply a complete lack of criticism in the past.
I wasn't talking about a "lack of criticism in the past", let alone a complete lack - I was talking about the ludicrous proposition that old performances are now less criticized while contemporary more, even though whenever there's actually an even somewhat weaker performance people still have no touble noticing.



Thanks for not reading, I was only tearing down two of them.
Well, whatever you did there to the third one, wasn't that good either...


Do you have any concrete points to make in rebuttal, or are you just going to sneer like a 12-year-old using non-stop sarcasm to try and bluff her way into looking like a grownup?
Thoughz you'd never ask!

Elijah Woods was the weak link in the Lord of the Rings movies. He did not look or act like a Hobbit, and you had Sean Astin's look and performance as Sam as direct comparison
He didn't act like a made-up species? That's the worst attempt to criticize a "weak performance" I've ever read.
There's nothing unusual about hobbits, they were just portrayed as a bunch of fat, drunk, wrinkly hicks, and curiously enough, all 4 of them were nothing like that.
The comparison to Sam is laughable - the two are completely different characters, Sam being a bit of a simpleton, and Frodo a "high-born" who was additionally into fancy lore and might've even gone out and conversed with elves or whatnot (forgot that plot point in the books, but it'd just be a cherry on top).

So the most noble-blooded / spiritual of the 4 supermodel hicks doesn't act like the other hicks or his simpleton servant - awesome.
and his acting choice of rolling his eyes to show the influence of the ring was dogshit compared to Ian Holm's acting choices for Bilbo in the same situation.
It's less about what is done, and more about how it is - the way he rolled those eyes was done in combination with face expressions and body language, and all of it created a creepy, surreal atmosphere that was congruent with the aesthetical stylization of the scenes where he did that.
The point was to convey semi-consciousness / rush / slipping off into the demon world or whatever.

Holm, on the other hand, played like Jeremy Irons in D&D - now he certainly did that well (again, just like Jeremy Irons in D&D), and that acting choice may be justified by other approaches such as the idea of Bilbo having sat on this ring for considerable time and probably anticipating some attempt by others to make him give it up... however if you're gonna pick one acting choice to declare "a bit dodgy", it'd certainly be his.


The first (and only first) Matrix movie was the best combination of setting and marginally talented actor since The Terminator.
I really, really hope you're not referring to Arnold there, or I'll stop humoring you right away.
Reeves' ability to wander around in wide eyed confusion perfectly fit the plot as audience identification character.
That's of course the popular thing to say, "lololololol Keanu acts confused, lololol, well let's give him a pat on the back for that when he's put in a movie where he's supposed to be confused it actually works lolololol", however an actual look at his performance shows that this "confusion" is merely one of the many emotions he displays throughout the film, in different scenes.

But let's be perfectly honest, every character in these movies were bland and forgettable save one. [...] because Will Turner was nothing more than a blood sausage with legs that whole movie. Kinda like Big Trouble in Little China without the self-awareness.
What's a "blood sausage"?
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Re: Star Wars Episode VII: Cast Unveiled...slated for 12/18/

Post by Mischief Maker »

Wasserkopp wrote:That's of course the popular thing to say, "lololololol Keanu acts confused, lololol, well let's give him a pat on the back for that when he's put in a movie where he's supposed to be confused it actually works lolololol", however an actual look at his performance shows that this "confusion" is merely one of the many emotions he displays throughout the film, in different scenes.
Are YOU the person who wrote that 108 page phantom menace review rebuttal?
Two working class dudes, one black one white, just baked a tray of ten cookies together.

An oligarch walks in and grabs nine cookies for himself.

Then he says to the white dude "Watch out for that black dude, he wants a piece of your cookie!"
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Re: Star Wars Episode VII: Cast Unveiled...slated for 12/18/

Post by Wasserkopp »

Lol no.

So what's a blood sausage now?
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Re: Star Wars Episode VII: Cast Unveiled...slated for 12/18/

Post by Mischief Maker »

Two working class dudes, one black one white, just baked a tray of ten cookies together.

An oligarch walks in and grabs nine cookies for himself.

Then he says to the white dude "Watch out for that black dude, he wants a piece of your cookie!"
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Re: Star Wars Episode VII: Cast Unveiled...slated for 12/18/

Post by Wasserkopp »

Ah, I see. Must've missed the part where Orlando Bloom was walking around in a sausage costume throughout the whole movie, I mean the elf ears must've been enough of a hassle already.
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Re: Star Wars Episode VII: Cast Unveiled...slated for 12/18/

Post by dan76 »

Someone make it stop.
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Re: Star Wars Episode VII: Cast Unveiled...slated for 12/18/

Post by Lord Satori »

You guys, this is a Star Wars thread. You'd know that if you'd stop scoffing for a moment and pay attention.
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Re: Star Wars Episode VII: Cast Unveiled...slated for 12/18/

Post by BryanM »

I ctrl-f'd for "vest" to check if anyone was talking about this most important of issues besides me and turned up bupkis.

The whole caring about acting thing is so ridiculous since it is literally the least important aspect of this particular franchise (or any hollywood blockbuster, frankly). I'm going to feel empathy for someone who hangs around muppets all day? Come on son.

I feel more empathy for Chris on Sesame Street. He's at least slightly more than a prop for a cool laser sword.
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Re: Star Wars Episode VII: Cast Unveiled...slated for 12/18/

Post by Wasserkopp »

BryanM wrote:.
since it is literally the least important aspect of this particular franchise
Wroong - acting and personality have always been among the most central, important aspects of the series.
It was so important in the end stage of the casting it was between two trios of actors that were found to have the right chemistry with each other - and, of course, the reason why these characters have become iconic since.
(or any hollywood blockbuster, frankly).
There are some where the acting is less important, but just for giggles - name one! I bet you'll end up naming one where the acting is of paramount importance.

I'm going to feel empathy for someone who hangs around muppets all day? Come on son.
wat
I feel more empathy for Chris on Sesame Street. He's at least slightly more than a prop for a cool laser sword.
The only SW characters qualifying for the title of "prop for cool sword" were the extras in Episode II.
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