I've played a few more MSX shmups now: Zanac EX, Aleste 2, Guardic, Gradius 2, and Undeadline. A quick roundup for anyone curious...
Aleste 2: really shows the potential of the MSX2+, probably the most technically impressive game I've played so far. The extra lives come a little too easily late-game or this would almost be a "harder" Compile game. Also, don't know if anyone can confirm, but is Aleste 2 noticeably less randomized in terms of enemy waves and AI? I've had a couple playthroughs and they felt almost exact. Amazing music again, love those upbeat heroic melodies.
Zanac EX: Too much slowdown sadly, prefer the NES or FDS versions. Also just too long, even for Compile. And the sound isn't FM, so there's really not much reason to play this on MSX imo.
Gradius 2: I played this with FRS' smooth-scrolling/enhancement patch, and its highly playable. Really hard though and the hit detection is a little suspect. Great music.
Undeadline: Wish I had a TurboR, because its just a little too slow on the MSX2+ to be really fun. Some stages are better than others. Too bad because if it ran at a reasonable speed, seems like it could be my favorite of the three incarnations (though I haven't given the x68k version enough time yet).
Guardic: Just started playing this, weird at first but actually kind of fun and different. Rationing your power supply across stages is a cool idea.
old computer shmups .... how good do people think they are
Re: old computer shmups .... how good do people think they a
You can get to the difficulty select/music test by holding down SELECT while loading. SHIFT + choose music track 0 to exit.blackoak wrote:
Aleste 2: really shows the potential of the MSX2+, probably the most technically impressive game I've played so far. The extra lives come a little too easily late-game or this would almost be a "harder" Compile game. Also, don't know if anyone can confirm, but is Aleste 2 noticeably less randomized in terms of enemy waves and AI? I've had a couple playthroughs and they felt almost exact. Amazing music again, love those upbeat heroic melodies.
Re: old computer shmups .... how good do people think they a
I remember playing Team 17's Project X for the first time on my Amiga and I was wowwed. I still love the music.
The jump from 8bit to 16bit was incredible- far more so than any jump since.
The jump from 8bit to 16bit was incredible- far more so than any jump since.
hoots mon- crivvens, help ma boab
Re: old computer shmups .... how good do people think they a
Apidya on the Amiga is still a great game, like an insect-themed Gradius. It's full of secret levels, memorable bosses (one stage 3 boss is a dead rat with maggots bursting out of its stomach) and some great music courtesy of Chris Huelsbeck: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyXo-9e ... E6&index=3
I also remember digging the art style of Disposable Hero, also on the Amiga. It had this really compelling mix of sci-fi and goopy-alien-womb-bio-horror going on. I don't think the gameplay would hold up today though; if I recall it was very euroshmuppy, with enemies that took way too many hits to kill, and cheap boss attacks that would give you almost no time to dodge.
I also remember digging the art style of Disposable Hero, also on the Amiga. It had this really compelling mix of sci-fi and goopy-alien-womb-bio-horror going on. I don't think the gameplay would hold up today though; if I recall it was very euroshmuppy, with enemies that took way too many hits to kill, and cheap boss attacks that would give you almost no time to dodge.
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Shatterhand
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Re: old computer shmups .... how good do people think they a
Project X is the 2nd most overrated shmup ever.
The first is Xenon 2, which is abominably shit.
On Amiga.. Apidya is freaking awesome. It's a shame the game is in a system that people (unfarily) judge as a system with bad games. Apidya is IMO still the best shmup to come from europe, and if it had been released in a consoles would get a lot more of love.
Uridium 2 is another great game, very original, a lot fun to play with its random waves and tight level design. Brutally hard too.
There's also Mega Typhoon, a not very known game even around amiga users (I only got to know it recently), and it's a very impressive and cool game
Then you've got Disposable Hero, Battle Squadron, Hybris, Ziriax, Tubular Worlds, Z-Out.. they are all ranging from good to pretty good and should be checked out.
On MSX there are dozens and dozens of shmups, many good ones. Space Manbow, obviously, is freaking awesome.. if it had Parallax, it would easily pass as an early Mega-Drive shmups. Compile games are pretty good (all 3 Aleste games, Zanac, Blaster Burn, Guardic, Gulkave, Final Justice - by the way, Aleste 2 is an MSX 2 game, it makes no use of the MSX2+ VDP). M-Kai games on MSX are really impressive, Pleasure Hearts and Kyokugen. Hydefos, both Famicle Parodic games. Sea Sardine, Rona, Kaleidoscope Special, Hype, Gall Force, Super Laydock, Laydock 2... all those games are worth to be played. Many people love Swiv.. I've been playing it lately.. it's not a bad game, but it's not ace either, and the way it drops its framerate when the screen gets busy nearly kills the game to me. Silkworm was an earlier game and its eon better IMO (not "better" than the arcade game as some Amiga fanboys will tell you, but really good). For some reasonable arcade ports, check Dragon Breed, R-Type 2 (lots of slowdown, otherwise pretty good) and ST Dragon .
Undeadline indeed is full of slowdown. I don't think playing it on a Turbo-R would make any difference, a game has to be specifically written for the Turbo-R to take advantage from it (That's why there are very few games with separate MSX2 and Turbo-R versions). The Turbo-R was incredbily under-developed, only very few games were released for it and we probably didn't see even half of its power.
The first is Xenon 2, which is abominably shit.
On Amiga.. Apidya is freaking awesome. It's a shame the game is in a system that people (unfarily) judge as a system with bad games. Apidya is IMO still the best shmup to come from europe, and if it had been released in a consoles would get a lot more of love.
Uridium 2 is another great game, very original, a lot fun to play with its random waves and tight level design. Brutally hard too.
There's also Mega Typhoon, a not very known game even around amiga users (I only got to know it recently), and it's a very impressive and cool game
Then you've got Disposable Hero, Battle Squadron, Hybris, Ziriax, Tubular Worlds, Z-Out.. they are all ranging from good to pretty good and should be checked out.
On MSX there are dozens and dozens of shmups, many good ones. Space Manbow, obviously, is freaking awesome.. if it had Parallax, it would easily pass as an early Mega-Drive shmups. Compile games are pretty good (all 3 Aleste games, Zanac, Blaster Burn, Guardic, Gulkave, Final Justice - by the way, Aleste 2 is an MSX 2 game, it makes no use of the MSX2+ VDP). M-Kai games on MSX are really impressive, Pleasure Hearts and Kyokugen. Hydefos, both Famicle Parodic games. Sea Sardine, Rona, Kaleidoscope Special, Hype, Gall Force, Super Laydock, Laydock 2... all those games are worth to be played. Many people love Swiv.. I've been playing it lately.. it's not a bad game, but it's not ace either, and the way it drops its framerate when the screen gets busy nearly kills the game to me. Silkworm was an earlier game and its eon better IMO (not "better" than the arcade game as some Amiga fanboys will tell you, but really good). For some reasonable arcade ports, check Dragon Breed, R-Type 2 (lots of slowdown, otherwise pretty good) and ST Dragon .
Undeadline indeed is full of slowdown. I don't think playing it on a Turbo-R would make any difference, a game has to be specifically written for the Turbo-R to take advantage from it (That's why there are very few games with separate MSX2 and Turbo-R versions). The Turbo-R was incredbily under-developed, only very few games were released for it and we probably didn't see even half of its power.
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SuperDeadite
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Re: old computer shmups .... how good do people think they a
For Undeadline, there is an unofficial doujin boot disk that will force the game to run in Turbo-R mode. It removes all slowdown and makes the game a lot more fun.
If you really want to see what the Turbo-R can do, the doujin shooter game Multi-plex is really impressive. Pleasure Hearts is also quite awesome.
Aleste 2 does not use the A.I. system of the previous games, patterns never change. Note if you boot the game from the intro disk, it will be much harder then if you boot from the game disk directly.
Personally I prefer Zanac (MSX1) over Zanac EX (MSX2). It is a very old game, but it just plays better imo. Zanac EX does have improved graphics over the FDS/NES game it was based on though.
Pretty much all the Konami games are worth playing, the choppy scrolling isn't as bad as people tend to assume.
Aleste Gaiden is also quite a bit of fun, very very easy, but still fun to playthrough now and then.
If you really want to see what the Turbo-R can do, the doujin shooter game Multi-plex is really impressive. Pleasure Hearts is also quite awesome.
Aleste 2 does not use the A.I. system of the previous games, patterns never change. Note if you boot the game from the intro disk, it will be much harder then if you boot from the game disk directly.
Personally I prefer Zanac (MSX1) over Zanac EX (MSX2). It is a very old game, but it just plays better imo. Zanac EX does have improved graphics over the FDS/NES game it was based on though.
Pretty much all the Konami games are worth playing, the choppy scrolling isn't as bad as people tend to assume.
Aleste Gaiden is also quite a bit of fun, very very easy, but still fun to playthrough now and then.