Opinions on the Retro Freak console from Japan?

[Fudoh]

Will it only play dumped roms from its own process, or can you add roms from 'other' sources?

you can pull the SD card, put into your PC and load as much roms onto it as you like. They all run without any problems and without any additional hacks.

[azmun]

I'm actually interested in this console but I don't normally use or like using emulators. My games run perfectly fine on actual hardware (using CRT via analog video). However, I have few motivations for why I'd consider a purchase.

To those who own this system, do you know if NES games work via an adaptor/converter? Also, will Famicom Disk System games work? Running FDS games on the SD card will be a huge plus since it would cut down on loading times and eradicate the belts (and other parts) from natural wear and tear.

1-easy way to finally see and run my games on HD (720p)
Currently, I don't even own a tv equipped with HDMI inputs and would still have to spend lots of time and money just to figure out how to get the proper modifications done, buy the right cables, upscalers, etc. Never really looked forward to this method since I can't stand lag. I'm also curious to see how digital signal will fare against the best of analog.

2-play games using different controllers
I've watched few vids and there seems to be a ton of options on how to configure the settings. I've got quite a bit of adapters. Unfortunately, I don't think NES multitap are compatible with FC. It'd be great if my SFC or Genesis multitap works with four player NES games though.

3-minimal glitches
It seems not all emulators are built the same (i.e. they vary in quality). Will be on a lookout with what the reviewers have to say regarding how games look, run and play.

Lastly, quite a few games during the 8-bit and 16-bit era had issues such as slowdown. Maybe it's wishful thinking, but if this console could simulate overclocking, that could perhaps alleviate the problem and enhance the gameplay.

[Eleriaqueen]

I can't confirm it since I don't have the adapter in question (72 to 60 pin adapter), but there's no reason NES games wouldn't work with said adapter.

1 - Yes this is what I consider a big plus as well, it's easy to hook the Retrofreak to a HDTV or PC screen (what I'm using at the moment). No additional lag since no analog/digital conversion, Retrofreak outputs digital through HDMI natively since it's an emulation machine.

1.5 - I'm mildy sensitive to controller latency. Of all the games I played on the Retrofreak none showed latency. But I can't notice 1-frame latency, 2-frame yes some times...

2 - PS4 controllers work very well with the Retrofreak, PS3 controllers work too but I find the D-Pad not as good on them. If you need original-feeling 3rd party controllers that should work with the Retrofreak you could consider the "8Bitdo" brand at http://www.8bitdo.com/
Sadly, there doesn't seem a way to have 4-player gameplay with only USB controllers (there's 3 USB ports) unless you buy the "original controller" addon that has PC-Engine / Famicom / SFC... etc ports (1 of each)

3 - I only played about 15 different games from different systems, but emulation seems pretty reliable so far, I still have a copy of Starfox I need to test though. One music note in the beginning of "Ready to go - Captain Lancer" (which is stage 1 music in Hellfire (MD)) is off I'm pretty sure. Other than that, there's a difference in color most games have, mostly because emulators only emulate "core" components of the system. Low-quality chips (DAC... etc) and other stuff like noise, can modify an analog signal and shift colors on original consoles but are not emulated on the Retrofreak.
But i'm sure there are some issues, no emulation is perfect...
Also, for the NES/Famicom specifically, I don't know if Retrofreak switches palettes when playing different region games (as it should, NTSC color palette is completely different from PAL)

About overclocking, there's an active overclocking available but it's bound to a button(or button combination) and it's used to skip cutscenes or boring / slow ass text scrolling (Ugh! Illusion of Time / Gaia !!!). I'm not sure if you can for instance run Starfox in double frame rate.

[azmun]

Sadly, there doesn't seem a way to have 4-player gameplay with only USB controllers (there's 3 USB ports) unless you buy the "original controller" addon that has PC-Engine / Famicom / SFC... etc ports (1 of each)

I've got multitaps for Genesis, Super Famicom and PC Engine plus numerous controllers on those respective consoles. I hope it's safe to assume the optional controller adapter with one terminal for each of the different systems will be compatible with my multitap to allow multiplayer functionality.

About overclocking, there's an active overclocking available but it's bound to a button(or button combination) and it's used to skip cutscenes or boring / slow ass text scrolling (Ugh! Illusion of Time / Gaia !!!). I'm not sure if you can for instance run Starfox in double frame rate.

I've checked the official website http://www.cybergadget.co.jp/retrofreak/ but unfortunately can't read Japanese nor test this function. Bascially, a new feature added to version 1.1 update alludes to some kind of slow function and overclocking rate of 1/2 to 1/4 speed. Not really sure what that means or does.

[Fudoh]

Got mine a few days ago. Just a few thoughts so far....

In its essence it's a Retron5 with a new design. Most of the options are completely identical. The presence of USB ports is nice. The ability to use a PS4 controller is a gift. If you remove the Cartridge reader you get a tiny emu box, which works quite well, if your demands aren't too high.

With the current FW version (1.3) the input lag feels ok. I haven't tried the Retron5 lately, but compared to the early Retron5 FW versions, it's really playable.

At first I feared that Cyber Gadget would at least implement some kind of safeguard to prevent users to just copy their rom files onto the SD card, but no - nothing. I started with copying a few physical carts to the SD card, took the SD card to my PC and checked the files. Just added a few more roms from my emu folders and they all worked without any hiccups. This fact - of course - renders the cartridge reader much useless. In all honesty - who would jump through the loops of dumping all his physical carts when just copying roms from the internet gives you the same results ?

The included controller is kinda ok. Better than many other 3rd party controllers and reasonably well built. The lack of wireless (BT) support is a bit of a let down though - especially since the Retron5 has wireless support and since the Retrofreak isn't exactly a cheaper alternative.

In general the usability is great. Access to the roms on the SD card is easy and the whole thing is getting close to what an ideal "retro-gaming station" might look like.

My biggest grief though are the video options. I don't see anything improved above the R5's video options. The output is fixed at 720p (with both 50 and 60Hz supported) and the standard setting will give you a 4:3 image filling the screen from top to bottom. The RF by default removes all the overscan area, so scaling the remaining resolution isn't this trivial - and it shows. On standard setting the RF uses a plain nearest neighbour scaling algorithm, which causes terrible scrolling artefacts - both vertically and horizontally. Playing vertical shoot'em ups (Super Aleste SFC and Gundhed PCE were the first ones I tried) isn't much fun like this.

The available screen filter options (SuperEagle, HQX scaling) all look pretty much terrible. The available scanline overlay can't be adjusted in its density and it's just a plain bitmap with alpha channels, so using scanlines on any of the "fullscreen" 4:3 modes shows unacceptable misalignment of the scanlines.

The only usable video option (in my book) is the "original resolution" option, which gives you 3x integer scaling (on both axis). With this the video quality approaches Framemeister quality and scanlines are properly aligned. Unfortunately the scanlines are still too light and applying the same integer scaling factor horizontally as vertically gives you a wrong aspect ratio on all NES and SNES games and most of the PCE titles as well (too narrow).

It's a bit awkward to see Cyber Gadget put this much effort in promoting the system, creating a new chassis and adding a PCE slot (which all isn't exactly cheap), while putting ZERO effort into improving the video part of the emulation. Something which is most likely already available in the emulation engine and just needs to be enabled. The Rockchip 3066 used in the RF is easily strong enough to support such options.

Adding 4x integer horizontal scaling (while retaining 3x integer on the vertical) would be the easiest fix. This along with adjustable scanline strength and the box would the good enough for a good portion of the retro gaming fans out there.

[Eleriaqueen]

Aspect ratio problems are due to CRT's having non-square pixels aren't they ? You can't emulate NS pixels without having a huge output resolution like 6x or 8x the standard one.
While we're at it, you might want curvature emulation too ? then why not have phospore emulation and bleeding as well ? ... if you see my point. ^_^"

[Fudoh]

On the horizonal CRTs can display almost any resolution. On the lower end you have SNES or NES with 256 pixels. On the higher (low-res) end you got 384 pixels on Capcom's CPS2 system.

In general you need better scaling (with oversampling) to have a freely adjustable aspect ratio. But if the developers can't manage that, the option to choose between 3x and 4x on the horizontal is the least they could (easily) do.

3x/3x NES or SNES turns out to 768x672 (1.14:1) on the RF, while it should be 896x672 (1.33:1). 4x/3x would show as 1024*672 (1.52:1), but I think it's closer to what the user expects compared to the narrower 3x/3x ratio. Giving users the choice can't hurt.

While we're at it, you might want curvature emulation too ? then why not have phospore emulation and bleeding as well ?

that's nothing I would expect from a Rok3066 powered machine. But I would expect to get options which are easily managable on the given hardware.

[BONKERS]

So basically it's a Retron 5 with a new coat of paint and a few inconsequential changes without fixing any of the biggest issues.

Complete with an incompetent understanding of Video Scaling.

I can't wait to see if they are simply using the same underlying emulators too.

FWIW you CAN get a near correct PAR for SNES/NES games with scaling even at 3x.
It changes depending on the TV and how it's set up but there are ways to get close enough to cover most cases.
http://screenshotcomparison.com/compari ... ?id=143035

(Though a clear example of how NOT to do it is Mega Man Legacy Collection, which almost gets it right but then has some kind of half pxiel or one pixel offset in the output causing a slight blurred edge around just about everything. http://screenshotcomparison.com/compari ... ?id=142201 )

[Eleriaqueen]

Why so negative ?

I don't see how you can label it as "basically a Retron 5 with a new coat of paint and a few inconsequential changes"
But hey if that's your opinion.
It's less flimsy, has a few improvements. It can play PC Engine, for some people the ability to play Roms from SD is great (some games have ridiculously high prices nowadays).
For others, the ability to dump their owned games could be considered equally good. Also USB controller support is pretty neat.

Aside from that, I see the Retrofreak as taking a few step further in the right direction albeit small.


PS : Cybergadget can also sell cartridge-receiver units without the actual "console" in it if one breaks cart slots. Which could also somewhat be considered as an improvement...

[kamiboy]

Such devices are made for the general retro gaming public, not the niche videophile enthusiast segment.

The joke is on you if you were ever expecting it to have scaling options that would satisfy us.

Only way that would happen is if the device got hacked with a custom firmware featuring alternate scaling options.

[parodius]

Some YT videos show PCE CD, Mega CD and 32X already playable on the Retrofreak. Does anybody have an english resource for how to accomplish that ?

Any links ?

[Fudoh]

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCg_IQq ... acIrGvOQHw

[BONKERS]

Such devices are made for the general retro gaming public, not the niche videophile enthusiast segment.

The joke is on you if you were ever expecting it to have scaling options that would satisfy us.

Only way that would happen is if the device got hacked with a custom firmware featuring alternate scaling options.

WELL, when the underlying software that powers the entire damn thing already has the options built into it. It makes no sense not to use them.

Since it's pretty much confirmed this is just a Retron5 variation complete with stealing Retroarch and all of it's cores once again.

Pretty scumbag people running these companies. Don't buy either of these devices or anything from them and support thieves. .

A clone console is one thing, this however is not.

[Strider77]

Well at least they are pretty.

[CkRtech]

Since it's pretty much confirmed this is just a Retron5 variation complete with stealing Retroarch and all of it's cores once again.

I find it amusing that a company would adopt a rather dodgy practice of violating GPL to create hardware ultimately used by many consumers to play stolen games.

[cfx]

.

[Guspaz]

Emulators are legal (and this has been tested in court, when Sony sued Connectix over Virtual Game Station and Sony lost), while commercial copyright infringement as practiced by RetroFreak and Hyperkin is not legal.

[kamiboy]

I speak for myself, but above any other law, the one I love the most to break, and oh boy do I ever break it often, is copyright law.

[Guspaz]

And there is also a difference between personal copyright infringement (a person downloading copyrighted stuff without permission) and commercial copyright infringement (a company stealing somebody's work and making a profit off it without permission).

I think people are much more likely to forgive somebody for downloading some games they didn't pay for, versus a company selling and making money off stolen software.

[Fudoh]

In the Retrofreak's case I don't understand why they simple open up the system. They could sell the hardware without a preinstalled OS and offer the software for free (and respecting the GPL). On the Retron5 Hyperkin put a lot of energy into protecting the software against playing rom images. Hence the weird update process and everything involved. But since Cyber Gadget opened the software for any roms anyway I don't see the point in jumping through the loops like this....

[xDeathsHeadx]

Any luck with how to get Retro Freak to run CD-Roms?

(TurboGrafx's Dungeon explorer 2 specifically)

[BONKERS]

Since it's pretty much confirmed this is just a Retron5 variation complete with stealing Retroarch and all of it's cores once again.

I find it amusing that a company would adopt a rather dodgy practice of violating GPL to create hardware ultimately used by many consumers to play stolen games.

Exactly. I don't see the reason for such outrage here. Companies selling such products are enabling mass piracy, yet there's no complaints about that, only that they violated free software licensing. I don't get why the emulator writers aren't held accountable for enabling piracy on a large scale either; this seems like karma to me.

Right, piracy. Good luck with that in court.
Especially for things no longer legally available to purchase or are manufactured anymore and the fact that...

Emulators are original software and IP and entitled every legal right anything else that qualifies is.
They do not supply any copyrighted material required to run them or run on them when they do not own it. (HLE is a different matter)
Emulation is also preservation of a machine that will one day have no running units.

Stealing that software and using it illegally against the license to sell commercially and make money off of. Without permission too.
Is a totally different ball game.

(Some are available to commercially license, like Higan. But why would they do that when they can steal for free? And they'd have to port it themselves to shitty low end ARM hardware.)


There are ways around it, and neither company b

[Voultar]

You have to put these things into proper context. And the context with devices like this and the Retron 5 is "convenience".

This is hardware directed towards the gamer who wants to have an ease of access experience. Not a purist, in that respect.

Ergo, the trade-off for convenience is, and will always be, authenticity.

[Kyle]

Sorry if this was already addressed. Does this thing function as a Retrode - dumping ones own roms from carts? Not really interested in the emu box aspect of it.

[Fudoh]

dumping ones own roms from carts?

yes, although the eurogamer review claimed that the roms are actually encypted in some way. I think I tried loading them on a emu with no problems, but I might have to reconfirm that.

[Thjodbjorn]

dumping ones own roms from carts?

yes, although the eurogamer review claimed that the roms are actually encypted in some way. I think I tried loading them on a emu with no problems, but I might have to reconfirm that.

I have one FC cart (8Bit Music Power) that won't run on my Analogue NT. It does run on the Retro Freak, but when I took the dumped .nes rom and put it on my everdrive card, everdrive was not able to load it. Said it was in an unrecognized format, iirc.

A pretty sharp little machine, and the SNES games look better than either the Wii U VC or my SFC (not a 1-chip) through RGB and upscaled on the framemeister, though the limited video options do hurt it. I also like being able to use the Pokken Tournament pro pad, which is a pretty good fit for SNES games.

[Guspaz]

8Bit Music Power doesn't work on real consoles without physical modifications due to them using the wrong voltage parts, did you follow their instructions for voltage modding the cart?

[Thjodbjorn]

8Bit Music Power doesn't work on real consoles without physical modifications due to them using the wrong voltage parts, did you follow their instructions for voltage modding the cart?

Swapping out parts in arcade sticks (when quick connectors are present) is about the most complex mod I can manage, honestly. So while I can kind of understand those instructions, I'll be content to just use it on the Retro Freak. I'll worry about the NT once a usable rom is out there. But yeah, I was disappointed to learn about how lousily those carts were made.

But really, better the cart being dumb than a system having issues!

Edit: I thought I read about them working on SOME real consoles, but not a whole lot of them?

[Guspaz]

Maybe? They're using 3.3v chips and real Famicom/NES consoles supply 5V on the address line, or something like that. I understand that it works on some clones.

They are *VERY* poorly designed/manufactured cartridges. The reason for the wrong voltage problem is that they use pirate boards with the wrong chips, and then inside them they have these overly long bodge wires with hot glue and surface mount stuff attached to them. They're laughably badly made. They're lucky they're not shorting anything.

You can fix it, but it involves soldering more stuff in.

[Thjodbjorn]

It's a shame too, because I really like the idea behind the project. But them doing shoddy work is definitely not a good foot to start off on.