Another day, another killing (split from US shootings topic)

[caincan]

the problem is worldwide with human & power struggle. sincerely there is only one answer. (hoping the computers won't cheat..)

Colossus forbin project.

[evil_ash_xero]

I have been reading that a terrorist attack has been thwarted, at a Hannover game, in Germany.

Looks like a vehicle full of explosives was going to be there. I haven't seen too much on it, yet.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... -live.html

[Xyga]

An ambulance apparently. Targeting a head of state again.

We're really far past the shootings issue anyway, in the following days and weeks this could become the 'war on terror 2.0' thread.

It's really hard to make sense of their strategy, I mean do ISIS (if that's really them) wish to be annihilated so hard ?

Is it a trap ?

[evil_ash_xero]

From what I understand, they are apocalyptic, and want to get the "end times" happening as soon as possible.

I dunno though. You hear a lot of things. And it's a bit hard to get proper information, from that part of the world.

[emphatic]

It's really hard to make sense of their strategy, I mean do ISIS (if that's really them) wish to be annihilated so hard ?

They want a world where Islamic people and everyone else are separated. They hate the "grey zones", where everyone is living happily in peace together. By claiming they're doing this for Islam, they try to force the west to fear/hate Muslims, to polarize the world into us/them. The idea is that the shunned Muslim people will join in their Jihad.

[Skykid]

Basically I'm staying in China.

[quash]

We revert back to our pre-austerity defense and safety capacity (giving the finger to the EU's sacred -3% deficit limit).

Yeah, I heard about that. Good on Hollande.

We're still sending more troops to Syria though, which is bad IMHO.

Only in Europe... lol. Won't bother arguing over this one.

bunch of stuff about the EU

Dude, replace Europe with America and nation with state, and you are basically describing modern America lol. We fucking invented the two tier system of representation, so don't be surprised if the EU adopts something similar.

But even in America, in spite of various conflicting interests between states, there's still some common goals most of us share. Most of us want the dollar to remain strong and the world's reserve currency, for starters. Surely most of the EU and even the sticklers like the UK who never adopted the Euro want the Euro to stay strong? I agree that nations in Europe are remarkably different in terms of their economic strengths, and they may squabble over who gets however much of the pie, but ultimately you all want the EU to be able to stand up to the US on economic terms, right? I mean, isn't that a large part of the reason the EU exists?

Maybe most outsiders have an ignorant view of modern Europe, and maybe I'm one of them (I've still yet to visit the old world). But you are thinking that America is the jingoistic bible belt paradise that's been sold to you by the media, when that's basically only the South and some East coast states.

And if you think Europe has issues with clashing ethnic backgrounds, well, maybe you should go Google "Black lives matter".

[gameoverDude]

It's really hard to make sense of their strategy, I mean do ISIS (if that's really them) wish to be annihilated so hard ?

They want a world where Islamic people and everyone else are separated. They hate the "grey zones", where everyone is living happily in peace together. By claiming they're doing this for Islam, they try to force the west to fear/hate Muslims, to polarize the world into us/them. The idea is that the shunned Muslim people will join in their Jihad.

Sure sounds like that's what these Daesh blasphemers want, to sow the seeds of hate. I've heard about fears of citizen retaliation against Muslims in France, similar to what went down after the Charlie Hebdo incident. Not all Muslims endorse what Daesh does. One sad part is that the innocent among the Muslims too often end up facing a shitstorm.

I agree with Obama, John Kerry, and Hollande that Daesh is a more fitting name than ISIS. These murderers don't deserve to call theirselves Islamic, nor to be recognized as a state. The word Daesh sounds a lot like dahes, which can be appropriately taken as "sower of discord". ISIS' old name had the acronym DAIISH which became Daesh in English, but they rebranded after they realized this connotation.

Why John Kerry & the French President are calling ISIS "Daesh"

[evil_ash_xero]

Looks like some more stuff going on, in France.

https://www.rt.com/news/322507-gunfire- ... ht-police/

[Xyga]

But even in America, in spite of various conflicting interests between states, there's still some common goals most of us share. Most of us want the dollar to remain strong and the world's reserve currency, for starters. Surely most of the EU and even the sticklers like the UK who never adopted the Euro want the Euro to stay strong? I agree that nations in Europe are remarkably different in terms of their economic strengths, and they may squabble over who gets however much of the pie, but ultimately you all want the EU to be able to stand up to the US on economic terms, right? I mean, isn't that a large part of the reason the EU exists?

Maybe most outsiders have an ignorant view of modern Europe, and maybe I'm one of them (I've still yet to visit the old world). But you are thinking that America is the jingoistic bible belt paradise that's been sold to you by the media, when that's basically only the South and some East coast states.

And if you think Europe has issues with clashing ethnic backgrounds, well, maybe you should go Google "Black lives matter".

There are several misconceptions and too hasty comparisons or conclusions in what you're saying here, and lots crucial stuff you're missing, but that's a vast topic, a very interesting one but maybe we should open a separate thread for it lol. :p

Threads spawning moar threads...we're the best.

Looks like some more stuff going on, in France.

yeah suddenly it's rabbit season.

[Mischief Maker]

Spoiler

[Xyga]

So the police/army raid, a whole battalion (ed: nah rather half, but still), was insane, lasted hours because of an armored door, 5000 rounds fired, woman suicide bombing inside, floor collapsed and the whole house about to.
But at least they caught several alive, apparently they were another 'team' that hadn't taken action yet.

The most incredible thing is the landlord they caught, he had a minute to talk to the cameras, really relaxed saying;
"I was asked (doesn't say by whom) to house these people for three days to help, so I did. I really don't know them, they said they didn't need beds, only running water and room for doing the prayer. I had no idea they were terrorists!"
He has a past by the way, he did 8 years for murder. Totally trustworthy guy.

[gameoverDude]

Daesh has executed Fan Jinghui, their first Chinese hostage. Xi Jinping has spoken about this. China did not talk of military action, but they did say they would more likely play a diplomatic role in the Syrian peace process.

"China strongly condemns the brutal murder of a Chinese national by Islamic State," Xi said, according to official China Central Television. "I express my deep condolences to the families of the victim. Terrorism is the common enemy of humanity. China resolutely opposes terrorism in any form and resolutely fights against violent, terrorist, criminal activities that challenge the bottom line of human civilization."

[Skykid]

Daesh has executed Fan Jinghui, their first Chinese hostage. Xi Jinping has spoken about this. China did not talk of military action, but they did say they would more likely play a diplomatic role in the Syrian peace process.

"China strongly condemns the brutal murder of a Chinese national by Islamic State," Xi said, according to official China Central Television. "I express my deep condolences to the families of the victim. Terrorism is the common enemy of humanity. China resolutely opposes terrorism in any form and resolutely fights against violent, terrorist, criminal activities that challenge the bottom line of human civilization."

China won't get involved militarily unless radical Islamists attack them on domestic soil unprovoked. They know that by allying with other foreign powers they will only become a new target.

Unfortunately those seeds were sown for Europe and the US a long time ago, no going back now.

[gameoverDude]

Daesh has executed Fan Jinghui, their first Chinese hostage. Xi Jinping has spoken about this. China did not talk of military action, but they did say they would more likely play a diplomatic role in the Syrian peace process.

"China strongly condemns the brutal murder of a Chinese national by Islamic State," Xi said, according to official China Central Television. "I express my deep condolences to the families of the victim. Terrorism is the common enemy of humanity. China resolutely opposes terrorism in any form and resolutely fights against violent, terrorist, criminal activities that challenge the bottom line of human civilization."

China won't get involved militarily unless radical Islamists attack them on domestic soil unprovoked. They know that by allying with other foreign powers they will only become a new target.

Unfortunately those seeds were sown for Europe and the US a long time ago, no going back now.

IOW, Daesh won't leave us alone until we totally KTFO every last remnant of them. Just bagging al-Baghdadi would probably not be enough, since they likely have a successor waiting in case he gets done in. Unless Assad interferes with our attempts to clomp down on Daesh, I'd feel he's the lesser of the 2 issues.

[Xyga]

I doubt these things will ever stop, not in the next 5 or 10 decades at least.
Some of the worse things in humanity only go away with time because there's no cure.

[Jonathan Ingram]

IOW, Daesh won't leave us alone until we totally KTFO every last remnant of them.

Good luck with that. The phenomenon of ISIS and the broader Islamist movement can only be understood in the context of the global economic crisis, which has taken on a structural character, and its effects in the periphery countries. It's not something that you can just KTFO and call it a day. The Islamist movement represents the expression of the growing social discontent of millions of disparaged and increasingly marginalized citizens of the third-world. It's a radical reaction to decades of barbaric neoliberal policies and new age imperialism. ISIS knows its social base well and speaks to its concerns. Their propagandists are adept and persuasive. They raise important social issues and make appeals to all-Muslim solidarity under the auspices of the Caliphate. Zakāt, in particular, is a recurring subject in many of their videos on the Darknet(contrary to the common misconception created by propaganda in the mass media, only a small subsection of ISIS videos are dedicated to brutal executions). Every supporter of theirs is promised food, housing, sanitation and above all else, a sense of unity and a common goal to strive for. It's a supranational vision that defies modern conceptions of the world and nation-states, but one that most any downtrodden Muslim can relate to. A fantasy so appealing on the surface, you don't have to be overly religious to be won over to its cause.

Of course, the tragedy of it all is that ISIS, the Islamist movements preceding it and the ones that will come after cannot possibly address any of the people's woes nor constitute an alternative to the rapidly deteriorating capitalist system that's overstayed its welcome by about six decades(the same goes for the fascist and other far-right movements springing up all over Europe promising change). Effectively, the energy of millions of people is being channeled in a way that's completely counter-productive to their own interests. Instead of fighting for social progress and liberation, for a true revolutionary change, they are being led to slaughter for a prejudice, for the pretense of the idealized, bountiful past that never existed in the first place(at least not in the form they believe it to) - the ancient caliphate. The ISIS ideologues, those phonies and charlatans, argue for a radical change, for a different type of social organization, but as the day-to-day economic realities of the Islamic State demonstrate, it only looks different on the surface, bearing the "proud legacy" of the caliphate and dressing itself in the gown of religious fundamentalism, but operates in exactly the same way as the statehoods it has replaced used to - money, commodities, exploitation. "To appear is more important than to be" - ISIS have learned the guiding principle of our society of spectacle well.

Some of the worse things in humanity only go away with time because there's no cure.

In a magical la la land where everything is an abstraction without a cause or a consequence, there is no cure for anything as nothing really exists, but as ISIS very obviously pertains to our objective reality, there has got to be a cause for its existence as well as a means of rectifying it. Applying "the final solution" to the entirety of Middle East with the help of hydrogen bombs, as the militant philistine non-entities in the Daily Telegraph comment sections have been suggesting, is unlikely to produce the desired effect, however.

[Xyga]

Why yeah when both ends are rotten what can we do ?

To some it's only considerably reducing the human population on a global level that will really help, but I recall reading even a chain of the worst natural disasters and all-out nuclear war wouldn't stop our insane growth.

We'll be 10 billion around 2050 whatever happens, and I don't even want to know about the estimates for 2100 lol.
Anyway with time wars and terror will fall back to secondary threats, we'll be more concerned with food and air for survival.
Maybe diseases too.

The only 'clean' solution would be a generalization of intelligence and wisdom, harmony, plus careful birth control and actual plans to colonize other livable planets.
Will fucking never happen in time.

*I decline all responsibility in regards to people who would kill themselves after reading that post* :p :p :p

[Mischief Maker]

Every supporter of theirs is promised food, housing, sanitation and above all else, a sense of unity and a common goal to strive for.

Shades of "Peace, Land, and Bread," my Russian friend?

[Jonathan Ingram]

Shades of "Peace, Land, and Bread," my Russian friend?

Do elaborate, please. Expand. I can't read your mind, you know. For your own sake, I hope you don't mean what I think you mean. That would be a tremendous display of ignorance on your part.

[MintyTheCat]

Shades of "Peace, Land, and Bread," my Russian friend?

Do elaborate, please. Expand. I can't read your mind, you know. For your own sake, I hope you don't mean what I think you mean. That would be a tremendous display of ignorance on your part.

I wondered when you would pop up, Jonathan. Over verbose as ever

[Mischief Maker]

Shades of "Peace, Land, and Bread," my Russian friend?

Do elaborate, please. Expand. I can't read your mind, you know. For your own sake, I hope you don't mean what I think you mean. That would be a tremendous display of ignorance on your part.

Merely noting a parallel between the desperate situation of the Russian people at the time of the revolution and the message that arose promising a satisfaction of basic needs and the analysis you just gave of this current situation. I didn't mean to say that the Bolsheviks were identical to ISIS.

If this is still ignorant, please cure me of it!

[Jonathan Ingram]

Merely noting a parallel between the desperate situation of the Russian people at the time of the revolution and the message that arose promising a satisfaction of basic needs and the analysis you just gave of this current situation. I didn't mean to say that the Bolsheviks were identical to ISIS.

Should've said so from the very beginning. Brevity may be the soul of wit but is also the mother of misunderstanding. Regarding the parallels, I think we can establish one between just about any two movements if we completely disregard their stated goals, the content of their politics and the historical context in which they existed, focusing instead on some selective slogans or even aesthetic similarities.

[Skykid]

I wondered when you would pop up, Jonathan. Over verbose as ever

You can't be "over verbose", that's tautological. You can either be verbose or not.

I thought JI's initial post was incredibly interesting, but I do have a bias because I already agree with the angle.

[MintyTheCat]

I wondered when you would pop up, Jonathan. Over verbose as ever

You can't be "over verbose", that's tautological. You can either be verbose or not.

I thought JI's initial post was incredibly interesting, but I do have a bias because I already agree with the angle.

You can be over verbose, Skykid.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/oververbose

http://www.engyes.com/en/dic-content/oververbose

English - Adjective
oververbose (comparative more oververbose, superlative most oververbose)

Excessively verbose or wordy.

[Skykid]

I wondered when you would pop up, Jonathan. Over verbose as ever

You can't be "over verbose", that's tautological. You can either be verbose or not.

I thought JI's initial post was incredibly interesting, but I do have a bias because I already agree with the angle.

You can be over verbose, Skykid.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/oververbose

http://www.engyes.com/en/dic-content/oververbose

English - Adjective
oververbose (comparative more oververbose, superlative most oververbose)

Excessively verbose or wordy.

I stand corrected!

(That's one word though, not two - one point for me!)

Sounds tautological though: I consider verbosity in itself to have a self-contained meaning. Now I know oververbose is a word, I shall have to remember never to use it!

Sorry, you can all go back on topic now.

[DEL]

All you have to do is answer one question and then you''l know everything you need to know: "Who owns ALL media in the Western World?"

The answer is two words. They are one unified group and they represent one Country.

(I did write: "Expect many more of these operations" didn't I).

[Blinge]

Good post, JI.

[MintyTheCat]

All you have to do is answer one question and then you''l know everything you need to know: "Who owns ALL media in the Western World?"

The answer is two words. They are one unified group and they represent one Country.

(I did write: "Expect many more of these operations" didn't I).

Yes, the BBC is laughable these days. I haven't read the New-York Times for a looong time but the Financial Times, Telegraph and The Times in the UK are still 'ok'. Frankfurter Allgemein is not bad too. The problem is that there are simply too many News Papers and stations that are not neutral in any sense of the word.

When I think back to how the riots in the UK and the student demos back in 2010 and 2011 by the BBC that should be pretty much indicative for most people to see how very biased the BBC is these days.

I look at news from many sources and like to compare how each of them handle stories but never trust any source is my advice.

[Blinge]

Financial Times, Telegraph and The Times in the UK are still 'ok'.

Telegraph? Paha, if you say so mate..