Fudoh's ode to old display technology

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604_degrees
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by 604_degrees »

I've picked up cheap ass PVM locally which is in perfect condition, except some geometry issue:

Image
Image

As you can see, lines in the middle looks distorted opposed to upper and lower ones.

Is this fixable?



UPD: It's about OK (a bit distorted) at first, but after few minutes (during warming up) it start to bulging from the center, and these 'steps' are like this 'bulge' didn't get to the end of edges.

UPD2: It seems that strength of the distortion depends on the picture's contrast or brightness.
nissling
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by nissling »

Looks like some alignment is off. Most likely nothing wrong with the tube.
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opt2not
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by opt2not »

How does one fix that? Tube Magnets?
Skips
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by Skips »

opt2not wrote:How does one fix that? Tube Magnets?
Typically a recap would be needed to fix something like that (or possibly an IC might need replacing as well). If that doesn't fix it its most likely the CRT. Typically when you get a problem that worsens as the CRT warms up it usually means capacitors are going bad.
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Skips
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by Skips »

Managed to get a great deal on a BVM-20F1U this week due to it having a gouge on the screen. I simply removed the plastic film on the screen and it was like new after that. Geometry is spot on and 0 convergence issues. Keeping this baby for myself.

Image
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BazookaBen
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by BazookaBen »

damn skips that's awesome, sounds like it has low usage hours, congrats!
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by atheistgod1999 »

604_degrees wrote:I've picked up cheap ass PVM locally which is in perfect condition, except some geometry issue:

Image
Image

As you can see, lines in the middle looks distorted opposed to upper and lower ones.

Is this fixable?



UPD: It's about OK (a bit distorted) at first, but after few minutes (during warming up) it start to bulging from the center, and these 'steps' are like this 'bulge' didn't get to the end of edges.

UPD2: It seems that strength of the distortion depends on the picture's contrast or brightness.
And I thought MY BVM was distorted! Damn!
Xyga wrote:It's really awesome how quash never gets tired of hammering the same stupid shit over and over and you guys don't suspect for second that he's actually paid for this.
22point8
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by 22point8 »

Actually that looks quite easy to fix with the pin amp and 'sexy' controls.

Press MENU, then press ENTER+DEGAUSS.

Image

Then press DEGAUSS to save or BLUE ONLY to reset.
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by Skips »

You arent going to fix that second picture with pinamp settings dude. The underscan one maybe but definitely not the second screenshot.

Also Im out of room on my desk I think.

Image
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604_degrees
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by 604_degrees »

Well, I've picked it up from the local TV channel's dump. This one was the best of 8 they have, but still seems to had some hardcore usage as you can judge from the photos. Anyway, I was messing up with the service menu settings for almost 3 hours yesterday, picking up different combinations, and succeeded, coming up with relatively decent image. There are some flaws (I can get straight picture only when it's a 90% narrower than actual screen, as well as I need to wait a few minutes before concaveness goes away), but I have really nothing to complain about for the $7 I've paid :D I believe someday I'll find another one in the slightly better condition. Thank you all for the good advices, really appreciate it!
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by Einzelherz »

Fudoh wrote:
PS2 sync on green must not work. Maybe with SCART, but component connections did not work on my Sony or JVC monitor, especially with 480i.
in 15khz mode the PS2 does output RGBs, not RGsB. Only with 480p you get Sync on Green.
So the ps2 can send 480p over a scart cable?
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by nissling »

Yes. I've actually once even used a SCART cable to get YPbPr in 1080i out of my Playstation 3...
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by Skips »

You can do anything over scart as long as you wire it right. Scart is a connector, nothing more. As long as you wire stuff up correctly you can pass nearly anything through it. When I had an original Wii I cut the RCA jacks off a component cable so I could wire a scart connector to it so I could just use my scart switch.
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QXC
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by QXC »

22point8 wrote:Actually that looks quite easy to fix with the pin amp and 'sexy' controls.

Press MENU, then press ENTER+DEGAUSS.

Image

Then press DEGAUSS to save or BLUE ONLY to reset.
Looks like he needs to turn the SEXY down! :D
DatPhosphorGlow
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by DatPhosphorGlow »

Fudoh wrote:
PS2 sync on green must not work. Maybe with SCART, but component connections did not work on my Sony or JVC monitor, especially with 480i.
in 15khz mode the PS2 does output RGBs, not RGsB. Only with 480p you get Sync on Green.
For 15khz do you mean sync on blue or external sync? If external where would I get the sync from when using component cables?
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KatKya
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by KatKya »

Carthik wrote:
Fudoh wrote:
PS2 sync on green must not work. Maybe with SCART, but component connections did not work on my Sony or JVC monitor, especially with 480i.
in 15khz mode the PS2 does output RGBs, not RGsB. Only with 480p you get Sync on Green.
For 15khz do you mean sync on blue or external sync? If external where would I get the sync from when using component cables?
It'd be external sync. If you're trying to carry an RGBS signal along a component cable, you'd either need one that also has a composite cable attached, or a light gun breakout box. It'll give you somewhere to tap composite from while letting the RGB and audio to go through unmolested.
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Einzelherz
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by Einzelherz »

Skips wrote:You can do anything over scart as long as you wire it right. Scart is a connector, nothing more. As long as you wire stuff up correctly you can pass nearly anything through it. When I had an original Wii I cut the RCA jacks off a component cable so I could wire a scart connector to it so I could just use my scart switch.
Ok, yeah I've done this too, in reverse. I built a scart to RCA cable to avoid using BNCs so I can use a cheap component switch with my PVM. I think what was confusing me was 480p through an RGB signal. I guess I thought it was limited to 480i.
bovined
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by bovined »

Skips can you detail out what you did to remove the plastic screen on your BVM 20F1U? I have a scratch on mine as well and didn't realize this was possible. Thanks
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by Skips »

Unless it is from 2000 on I would not try to remove it. The BVM's from 97 to 99 (and maybe early 2000?) used a much stronger adhesive. I have never had any luck getting the adhesive off the glass without scratching it on those 20F1U's. It was REALLY stuck on there, even after letting a various amounts of solvents soak into it for days at a time.

For this BVM however I removed the side covers then unscrewed the front face plate. Once its off you gently peel up the corners of the film and pull until its off. Take it slow and be careful as you go. Once its off you just remove any left over glue on the glass.
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DatPhosphorGlow
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by DatPhosphorGlow »

How do I go about hooking up a composite signal to my D14 BVM? Do I use the analog input card?

I know this seems redundant. I just don't have the right cables yet and want to somewhat test it.
22point8
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by 22point8 »

Y and internal sync might make a black and white picture.
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by xga »

Does anyone know (or can explain) what the difference is with the Sony BVM's that are designated for different countries? E.g. the BVM's that end in the letter U (for the US) and the BVM's that end in the letter A (for Australia), apart from the voltage used, what is the difference between them? Are they calibrated differently for the magnetic poles or something?
22point8
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by 22point8 »

A, J and E use EBU phosphor, U uses SMPTE-C phosphor. A is an upside down tube for the southern hemisphere.
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by markpaterson »

Wow this thread is really great. Very informative!

I'm looking for a little advice. I have a Sony PVM-1351Q and an Olympus OEV203. I've posted an album comparing the picture quality of each, and i'll gradually explain why…
http://imgur.com/a/B3yRJ

First of all, ignore the dull colors on some shots. Both look vibrant in real life, it's just hard to capture that on my iPhone. Now that's out of the way, I'll do a mini review of each.

Sony PVM-1351Q 13" 450 TVL

Tack sharp. Even though it's only 450 lines (and some wouldn't touch 450 with a 10 foot pole), at about 2-3 ft playing distance it looks amazing. Really crisp and bright, and the low TVL has a certain charm to it.

The size is perfect for desktop gaming, and doesn't look too bad on my desk next to my computer. I work in the TV industry, so when I'm working from home the monitor does double duty as my video production monitor – you know, like Sony originally intended! :D

Olympus OEV203 20" 600 TVL

First of all, it's kind of huge compared to the 13", and look ridiculous on my desk. Might have to make some sort of retro gaming cart setup for it. Anyway…

For those unaware, it's actually a rebranded Sony PVM-20M2MDU (I opened it up to adjust the focus and noticed it literally says 'Sony' all over the inside :D). They're going for about half the cost of the Sony equivalent on eBay. It's a great monitor overall, but as you can see it looks a little on the soft side compared to my 13" Sony. Like I said, I attempted to adjust the internal focus pot but I couldn't get it any better. The convergence looks ok too i think.

If I'd never had the Sony I'd be over the moon with the Olympus, but as it stands now I'm kind of wishing it was as sharp as the Sony. I'm thinking that the softness is a symptom of it being 'only' 600 TVL, yet 20" in size. It seems that the vast majority of 20" PVM's / BVM's are 800 / 900 / 1000 TVL. Thoughts?

Seems like a 600 TVL 20" can never be as sharp as an 800 TVL, or indeed even 13" 450 TVL. I guess there's just too few lines being stretched over too big an area. For example, look at these comparisons I found (the Blue Falcon pics) showing how a 600 vs 800 TVL differs in sharpness http://67.227.255.239/forum/showthread.php?p=181242894

Does anybody have any opinions on the 240p TVL sweet spots at varying TV sizes? I'd be interested to see a 13" 600 TVL and a 20" 800 TVL.
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by atheistgod1999 »

My dad told me that crt phosphors burn out over time even if it's not constantly showing an image. Is this true? I was at funspot this weekend and some of the arcade monitors looked really dark. Some had dead electron guns (like not displaying any green), though, so I'm not sure if that is the issue. Xevious had the title screen totally burned in, even though it should never be on for longer than like 16 hours straight.
Last edited by atheistgod1999 on Mon Nov 23, 2015 9:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Xyga wrote:It's really awesome how quash never gets tired of hammering the same stupid shit over and over and you guys don't suspect for second that he's actually paid for this.
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by peterwright1234 »

hey guys. I don't post ever post here really but I have a question. I'm interested in getting a ps4 and I'm wondering if its possible to play it on my bvm d24e1wj. I'm really unknowledgable about audio/video stuff. I don't have an hd tv but I have 4 pvms and 1 bvm. If it is possible, how does the experience compare to a modern hd tv? what resolution does it play in?
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by BazookaBen »

peterwright1234 wrote:hey guys. I don't post ever post here really but I have a question. I'm interested in getting a ps4 and I'm wondering if its possible to play it on my bvm d24e1wj. I'm really unknowledgable about audio/video stuff. I don't have an hd tv but I have 4 pvms and 1 bvm. If it is possible, how does the experience compare to a modern hd tv? what resolution does it play in?
To hook up the PS4, you'll need an HD Fury adapter, and maybe a newer one that has audio out if your sound system doesn't support optical audio.

For resolution, you'll want to pick 720p for 60fps games, 1080i for 30fps games. It should look better than most modern TV's, outside of OLED.
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by kamiboy »

The phosphor coating of a CRT does indeed burn out with use. Short of not using the screen there is no avoiding it.

Burn-in, however, is a phenomenon caused by uneven burn out of the phosphor coating. That can easily be avoided by not displaying the same static elements on the screen for hundreds of hours.
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by atheistgod1999 »

kamiboy wrote:The phosphor coating of a CRT does indeed burn out with use. Short of not using the screen there is no avoiding it.

Burn-in, however, is a phenomenon caused by uneven burn out of the phosphor coating. That can easily be avoided by not displaying the same static elements on the screen for hundreds of hours.
Well that sucks D: Any way to replace it, supposing they still had repair shops? Would it be possible to make a CRT with replaceable phosphor coating, supposing I had a few million bucks?
Xyga wrote:It's really awesome how quash never gets tired of hammering the same stupid shit over and over and you guys don't suspect for second that he's actually paid for this.
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by atheistgod1999 »

atheistgod1999 wrote:
kamiboy wrote:The phosphor coating of a CRT does indeed burn out with use. Short of not using the screen there is no avoiding it.

Burn-in, however, is a phenomenon caused by uneven burn out of the phosphor coating. That can easily be avoided by not displaying the same static elements on the screen for hundreds of hours.
Well that sucks D: My RGB monitor isn't as good as it was back in 2000 (when it was made) even though it only has 5.5k hours.Any way to replace it, supposing they still had repair shops? Would it be possible to make a CRT with replaceable phosphor coating, supposing I had a few million bucks?
Xyga wrote:It's really awesome how quash never gets tired of hammering the same stupid shit over and over and you guys don't suspect for second that he's actually paid for this.
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