Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV

[Xyga]

Continuing from previous page;

TRANSLATION FROM POLISH REQUIRED PRETTY PLEASE !!!

"Help me Obiwanshinobi, you're my only hope"

http://www.benchmark.pl/testy_i_recenzj ... -test.html

Google translate's a mess so i could be reading it wrong, but is it saying the delay is only 13.2ms ?
How do they get their measurements done ?

If it's true that would make the 32W700C/705C the exception in 2015. Wonder if the larger models are the same then.

There are other W7xxC reviews out there which list the input lag at ~35ms.

Yeah that's what I though I've read as well, but maybe the 32" is different ?

Remember in 2013 the 32" W6 was different as well (but w/ higher lag instead). We would have seen weirder things.

I don't know how that website does its lag testings, the related paragraph doesn't really make sense in g-translate so I'm wondering what else they're saying.
Maybe it would also be worth asking them.

[cfx]

.

[Ed Oscuro]

@ Xyga: I don't understand many Polish words at all, but the structure of the review doesn't seem to have any section detailing their input lag method, just a single number.

I didn't see any particular reason to suspect they used the Leo Bodnar tester over other methods, except that the Bodnar does just spit out a single numberr. Then I found this review of the 42" model, which is tested with a Bodnar and shows an almost identical figure!

Either in a "best" or "worst case" scenario, 13.2ms is a great result.

I also wish more sites paid attention to motion blur, like Rtings and TFT Central do. This review (and all the others) unfortunately seems to skimp on those details.

I see from this review, or an overview, that it has limited viewing angles and could be clouded (backlight bleed / gray uniformity is bad?), which I'm not sure how to interpret. If it has limited viewing angles I'd guess it's a TN panel. But this review says the 42" model is a VA panel. This review says no backlight clouding in Cinema mode and 12ms on the 42" model.

[Xyga]

Nah it's the 705B of 2014 and it got a VA panel like the current 705C does of course, Sony wouldn't dare to put a crappy TN in one of their mid-range Tv's, and definitely not of that size.

The 'B' models are the ones we've been praising for a few years here, the issue with the 'C' successors is that they have Android and 35ms of lag on average.

Most people say 'limited viewing angles' for everything that's not at least on the level of IPS in that regard, and crappy websites such as lesnumeriques/digitalversus aren't good at explaining those 'subtle' (lol) differences.
VA is perfectly okay as long as you sit in front of it, it's just not the right choice for a spacious salon where some viewers would watch it from an angle.

Regarding blur yeah that's important of course, that's a weakness of VA but that doesn't mean they're all too slow, some lazy-engineering LG IPS are twice as slow as the current Sony VA for instance.
All tests results are useful in their own way but reviewers sometimes also say BS, that's still one of the issues with Rtings for instance, they don't understand the problem of giving high ratings to panels with fast pixel response times...but using PWM. *facepalm*

Still on the topic of that 32W700/705, I'll say it deserves some research.

[Ed Oscuro]

All those links are for the 705B, I've just checked again. Yeah, it's just that one French review that complains about the viewing angles, but it's not much more than an overview. Looking again, at least two of the reviews comment that it's a VA panel.

It sounds like a pretty nice set; too bad I can't find anything like it for the American market.

they don't understand the problem of giving high ratings to panels with fast pixel response times...but using PWM. *facepalm*

I think I just read a review of theirs which noted a flicker mode for motion blur reduction didn't work well, and I think they typically mention PWM usage, at least. It definitely is something that's on my radar, though I'm not sure I'd turn down a good performing set if it just had PWM. I might, but I'm not sure how that would affect me; my old monitor just uses a CCFL, not LED PWM.

[Fudoh]

I also wish more sites paid attention to motion blur, like Rtings and TFT Central do. This review (and all the others) unfortunately seems to skimp on those details.

there really isn't much variation. You get your usual 300 lines of motion resolution without motionflow and you get pretty excellent results with MF enabled (similar to the ULMB modes on newer monitors), but the input lag is horrendous with extensive motionflow enabled.

[Ed Oscuro]

I suppose you can question how useful the split-second photographs featured using the UFO chase test or the Rtings logo are, but I think they're still worth looking at. Some sets aren't quite legible under motion, while others are. More to the point, it gives a historical cache of information which could help somebody decide whether to upgrade, just like other derived figures.

I wouldn't use motion flow; I don't see the point of interpolation. I want to see real information, not fake inbetween frames.

[Xyga]

Rtings are doing the camera chase test, which is good and representative of what it is, it's just that they don't get the issue with PWM artifacts.

The B models were still available in the USA and Canada in 2014 and at least up to mid-2015, and the W700B is still officially available in Canada.
In Europe I think there are still some in the UK, I know in France they've been discontinued for good, and no old stock left.

So finding out if one of the 'C' variants has actually dodged the new 'Android 35ms lag' would be great news for several people in countries where all 'B' models have been discontinued.
Because after all the only other 32" options out there are twice as expensive 4K monitors, also not always really fitting for the job I would add.

[Ed Oscuro]

There are some "R5" models and W600 models showing up in stores here in the US, but they all seem to be garbage. I'll have to look again; I guess that the availability in the UK and Europe is just crowding top Google search results.

Or, I could just wait longer and hope some set squeaks through, dodging 4K and Android bullets...

Edit: Here's another interesting-looking set: KDL-32W706b. Another VA panel set?

[Xyga]

Sometimes I wonder if most low-grade cheap products were also tested if we wouldn't find little gems worthy of interest.

Browsing some electronics stores you realize there are freaking tons of models nobody ever cares to have a look at (at least in Europe the choice is vast).

Sad. I'm sure we're missing stuff.

[Fudoh]

I think there really are people that are buying all the TVs we would just walk by without even considering.

[leonk]

OMG! For once living in Canada might have a plus!

My 2005 KDF-42A10 3LCD 1080i Sony TV is finally dying and I'm in the market for a new TV. I'm going to be using it mostly for watching TV and movies.

I've actually narrowed it down to between:

- Sony KDL55W800C (Die hard Sony fan for many decades now)
- Samsung UN55J6300

but now I'm starting to think about the 48" W700C.

I'm still confused by all the talk to this forum of the B vs C Sony TV's. If I were to purchase a TV purely for TV watching (and rare XBOX game, I do most of my retro gaming on my 20" Sony PVM) am I safe with the C or better off with B .. or .. ?

Sorry to go off topic, but buying a TV once per decade really puts one out of the loop and I would like to catch up as quickly as possible. My budget is $1000-1500

[bobrocks95]

OMG! For once living in Canada might have a plus!

My 2005 KDF-42A10 3LCD 1080i Sony TV is finally dying and I'm in the market for a new TV. I'm going to be using it mostly for watching TV and movies.

I've actually narrowed it down to between:

- Sony KDL55W800C (Die hard Sony fan for many decades now)
- Samsung UN55J6300

but now I'm starting to think about the 48" W700C.

I'm still confused by all the talk to this forum of the B vs C Sony TV's. If I were to purchase a TV purely for TV watching (and rare XBOX game, I do most of my retro gaming on my 20" Sony PVM) am I safe with the C or better off with B .. or .. ?

Sorry to go off topic, but buying a TV once per decade really puts one out of the loop and I would like to catch up as quickly as possible. My budget is $1000-1500

If your main focus isn't games, the Sony and Samsung you listed are both VA panels and will likely look pretty similar. Note that colors will be a bit off if you're not sitting directly in front of them because of that though.
If you can get the 55W700B though, I mean, why not? It should be within your budget (don't know the Canadian Dollar conversion rate atm).

[leonk]

Why are so many sites saying that VA is better than IPS? Is it because VA can get more darker blacks than IPS?

My couch is at 90 degrees to the TV. At most, you're at 80 degrees from either end.

[bobrocks95]

Why are so many sites saying that VA is better than IPS? Is it because VA can get more darker blacks than IPS?

My couch is at 90 degrees to the TV. At most, you're at 80 degrees from either end.

One isn't definitively better, but if you're sitting in a typical living room environment and you're mainly just watching TV/movies, VA is probably the better choice. It has richer color and deeper blacks than IPS panels, at the cost of some color shift at off-angles and I think lower motion resolution or just a higher pixel response time in general.

[BONKERS]

I also wish more sites paid attention to motion blur, like Rtings and TFT Central do. This review (and all the others) unfortunately seems to skimp on those details.

there really isn't much variation. You get your usual 300 lines of motion resolution without motionflow and you get pretty excellent results with MF enabled (similar to the ULMB modes on newer monitors), but the input lag is horrendous with extensive motionflow enabled.

That's not necessarily the truth. As RTINGs has proved this year, even without MF or low persistence a lot of things can make MB more pleasing to the eye.

[Hoagtech]

I want to review the 950b 65" KDL but I'm so blown away by it I want to give it a fair review.

And that will take time. one smash bros match and Panasonic 3do game at a time

I can say the preview is good and This Tv is bonkers.

[Ed Oscuro]

If you're reading comments aimed at home theater users, it makes sense. VA panels get better blacks and contrast; IPS gets better pixel response times and color reproduction. "IPS glow" generally hasn't been an issue for me in mixed content.

I want to review the 950b 65" KDL but I'm so blown away by it I want to give it a fair review.

My guess: PVA panel type and inaccurate colors due to Triluminos (i.e., artificially wide gamut).

[Xyga]

OMG! For once living in Canada might have a plus!

My 2005 KDF-42A10 3LCD 1080i Sony TV is finally dying and I'm in the market for a new TV. I'm going to be using it mostly for watching TV and movies.

I've actually narrowed it down to between:

- Sony KDL55W800C (Die hard Sony fan for many decades now)
- Samsung UN55J6300

but now I'm starting to think about the 48" W700C.

I'm still confused by all the talk to this forum of the B vs C Sony TV's. If I were to purchase a TV purely for TV watching (and rare XBOX game, I do most of my retro gaming on my 20" Sony PVM) am I safe with the C or better off with B .. or .. ?

Sorry to go off topic, but buying a TV once per decade really puts one out of the loop and I would like to catch up as quickly as possible. My budget is $1000-1500

Again until proven otherwise all the Sony ending in 'C' (2015 models) have at least 35ms of lag.
The only one that might have escaped that high lag is the 32" model 32W700B, we are not sure yet, we've only got that Polish review.

BUT I was saying the low lag models, those ending in 'B' (2014 models) are still officially available in Canada, at least on Sony's local website, and from what I've seen maybe only the 32" one; 32W700B.
A few months back several 'B' models were still available over there, including the larger 42W700B, 50W700B, 50W800B, 55W800B etc.
Those are the 'right' ones.

Still, I would be surprised if you found any of those easily, the stocks might be pretty low or already completely gone even if Sony are still showing the '**W700B'.
Might be difficult, or already too late.

This is why it's rather important to confirm the lag of the 32W700C (705C in Europe).
It might be the very last low-lag Sony TV until who knows when in the future.

Personally I'd dedicate some time to try and find one of the 'B' even if it's a challenge, because with Xmas sales the very last units that might still be around will all go for sure.
The Samsungs IMHO are overpriced and technically inferior to the Sony period (PWM in 2015 = who are we kidding?) but it's true that some of their current models have lower lag (about 20ms vs the current 35 of Sony).

[Xyga]

I think there really are people that are buying all the TVs we would just walk by without even considering.

Certainly, every brand's still releasing new model series every year after all.
Those primarily sell through general stores on the budget shelves, I was tempted once to go through the nearest one with a LB tester and test everything.
Before doing it I went and asked the product manager but he said no, no and no.
Tried another one in the countryside: same answer.

Specialized electronics stores are more likely to let me do it, but usually in France those don't carry much budget models...
You need to have your own website/blog and quite a number of followers to be granted a right to communicate with marketing/social management and receive the green light to test samples.
This is at least how things worked when I was working in that field (unfortunately my boss wouldn't let me 'waste' much time with anything displays even though it was my turf. he was an ass.)

[Hoagtech]

If you're reading comments aimed at home theater users, it makes sense. VA panels get better blacks and contrast; IPS gets better pixel response times and color reproduction. "IPS glow" generally hasn't been an issue for me in mixed content.

I want to review the 950b 65" KDL but I'm so blown away by it I want to give it a fair review.

My guess: PVA panel type and inaccurate colors due to Triluminos (i.e., artificially wide gamut).

No xyga brought this up as he mentioned the panel may be different from the 55" version. So I called Sony and they told me in fact it was an IPS panel. The game scene mode turns off a lot of color, edge, detail, and black enhancers.

When I was out of game scene my Leo Bodnar was reading -124 -128 ms input lag. When I turned it on it was reading 15-18 ms input lag

But back to colors, on the component source it detects 15khz signals and lowers color temperature and picture automatically. The lag was less through its native scaling on original content (in this case the snes playing Super Punchout) than the Wii U Virtual console playing Super Punchout.

[Xyga]

If you like it I think you can turn the various color/contrast/details enhancers back on without adding any significant delay.
You're still in game mode; the lag should remain very low whatever the case.

[Ed Oscuro]

If you're reading comments aimed at home theater users, it makes sense. VA panels get better blacks and contrast; IPS gets better pixel response times and color reproduction. "IPS glow" generally hasn't been an issue for me in mixed content.

I want to review the 950b 65" KDL but I'm so blown away by it I want to give it a fair review.

My guess: PVA panel type and inaccurate colors due to Triluminos (i.e., artificially wide gamut).

No xyga brought this up as he mentioned the panel may be different from the 55" version. So I called Sony and they told me in fact it was an IPS panel. The game scene mode turns off a lot of color, edge, detail, and black enhancers.

When I was out of game scene my Leo Bodnar was reading -124 -128 ms input lag. When I turned it on it was reading 15-18 ms input lag

But back to colors, on the component source it detects 15khz signals and lowers color temperature and picture automatically. The lag was less through its native scaling on original content (in this case the snes playing Super Punchout) than the Wii U Virtual console playing Super Punchout.

I wasn't replying to you with that post, but the posts above yours.

[bobrocks95]

Sorry to post a film-related question about these sets here, but what are the proper settings for MotionFlow and CineMotion if you're watching 24 fps content from a blu-ray player? From what I understand CineMotion is reverse 3:2 pulldown so wouldn't be needed for a 24fps source, but should I put MotionFlow on True Cinema? Can't really tell what it's supposed to do (a less obvious motion interpolation?)

[Fudoh]

technically yes, but the cinemotion setting (film mode in Europe) also affects how Motionflow affects the picture.

The 3:2 pulldown on the Sony works extremely well, actually so well that I don't even bother with 24p playback from any source, but leave them at 60Hz output, so there's no sync loss when switching between video and film content.

In both cases cinemotion should be set to auto1 and then you set motionflow to the level you like. Clear for example is the lowest interpolation setting. You end up with up to 48fps depending on the motion in the actual scene on screen. It's not quite as smooth as real 48fps in the cinema (Hobbit). Standard would be closer to that. Clear (or Clear Plus when available) gives you 1080p motion resolution at the lowest possible visible interpolation. At the same time it smoothes 24p content in a way you can easily get used to it.

[bobrocks95]

technically yes, but the cinemotion setting (film mode in Europe) also affects how Motionflow affects the picture.

The 3:2 pulldown on the Sony works extremely well, actually so well that I don't even bother with 24p playback from any source, but leave them at 60Hz output, so there's no sync loss when switching between video and film content.

In both cases cinemotion should be set to auto1 and then you set motionflow to the level you like. Clear for example is the lowest interpolation setting. You end up with up to 48fps depending on the motion in the actual scene on screen. It's not quite as smooth as real 48fps in the cinema (Hobbit). Standard would be closer to that. Clear (or Clear Plus when available) gives you 1080p motion resolution at the lowest possible visible interpolation. At the same time it smoothes 24p content in a way you can easily get used to it.

Interesting, I just have Auto for cinemotion instead of 2 different options. I guess it pulls double-duty and does a reverse pulldown plus modifies how motionflow works?

By "In both cases cinemotion should be set to auto1" do you mean even with a 24p source and if I don't want any motion interpolation, I should have it on auto anyway?
If that's the case, I guess it doesn't do anything unless the source is 60Hz and/or I have some motionflow setting on?

[Fudoh]

By "In both cases cinemotion should be set to auto1" do you mean even with a 24p source and if I don't want any motion interpolation, I should have it on auto anyway?

If you don't want any interolation, you should still have it on auto, but disable motionflow instead. But remember that your motion resolution will be down to a blurry 300 lines then.

[kditd]

sorry in advance for this maybe stupid question.
it is so much information and variations of lcd's in this thread and most of them are out of production.
i found the initial review really good and im looking for a tv for retro till current gen gaming.
which one would be the best choice at the moment? preferably 50" and avalible in germany.

[Hoagtech]

Do you have a graphics "scene" mode on the w6. I was using my Leo bodnar on every scene mode and when I chose "graphics" I got the best input lag reading so far.

" 14.7 ms "

I noticed a little warmer softer image even after I altered the color temperature on graphics (compared to "game") but it stopped the "Line tremble" coming from my scart sources, whereas "game" scene was jumping like crazy.

[Fudoh]

How does the picture change when you leave the scene setting at graphics and you toggle the speed preference (deinterlacing) setting ?